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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Having seen Harry Potter 7.1
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hutch
Rohan


Nov 24 2010, 8:39pm

Post #51 of 69 (125 views)
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coraline [In reply to] Can't Post

 shot in 3-d. no roller coaster or pop out gotcha gags and yet still the best 3-d i've ever seen. haven't read or seen HP so i don't know about the comparisons. i did see bits of one or two HP...wasn't impressed but i can't judge cause i didn't see it all or know the story. however both Tolkien and PJ are giants in their respective genres so i can honestly say to anyone worried that TH may not live up to HP to rest soundly. TH is going to be another benchmark-hopefully this time for 3-d.


lurtz2010
Rohan

Nov 24 2010, 10:17pm

Post #52 of 69 (144 views)
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So you haven't even read Harry Potter [In reply to] Can't Post

and you liked the movies? I really thought that the movies would make absolutely no sense to people who hadn't read the books but I guess not...
I've read all HP books quite a few times and IMO movies 5,6 and 7 (Yates' ones) were they only ones I didn't hate. I despised movie 1 and movie 3 with a passion, movies 2 and 4 were average. One of the worst things they did to the HP movies was to make Voldemort such a dumb villan... he's suppose to seem way more evil than just Ralph Fiennes in a white mask talking in his own vioce. Darth Sideous from StarWars is more how Voldemort should be.
But anyway I really can't imagine anyone preferring any HP movie over LOTR.


sphdle1
Gondor


Nov 25 2010, 12:15pm

Post #53 of 69 (120 views)
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Yes that's how they are measured... [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone knows this..Laugh


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 25 2010, 1:39pm

Post #54 of 69 (108 views)
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I was also [In reply to] Can't Post

not too enthused about Voldemort's portrayal in the films. He sounds substantially more Scottish than I imagined him, his eyes should be red, not blue, his skin was just pale and not ugly or waxy enough, his noseless slit-nostrils were kind of silly, his voice was too soft, and I always pictured him with black eyebrows and a look of insane malevolence on his face, rather than no eyebrows and an expression of mild nothingness. Crazy

Still, he could have been much worse than what we got.


FrodoEyes
Rivendell

Nov 26 2010, 9:10am

Post #55 of 69 (108 views)
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I'm a HP fan too but.... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Before watching HP7.1, HP5 was on even par with LOTR movies overall for me, and in terms of action and the ultimate wizard dual, surpassed LOTR movies in terms of intensity. I remember leaving the theatre after watching HP OOTP and being just completely blown away with the last 20+ minutes ...


Exactly, the last 20 minutes were ok, but nothing much happened in the rest of the movie story-wise, just like the book, which ironically was the longest of the lot!
If that movie truly was on a par with the whole LOTR trilogy for you, with balrogs, Helms Deep, Minas Tirith etc etc...... then there truly is no hope for you!

'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'
'So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.'


sphdle1
Gondor


Nov 26 2010, 1:03pm

Post #56 of 69 (123 views)
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Yeah...loved the movies...up until HP7.1 some of them were neck & neck with LOTR for me [In reply to] Can't Post

*** Warning - Possible General 'Spoilers' for HP1 to 7.1 Movies below ***

The movies made sense to me, although I seemed to learn a bit more the 2nd/3rd time I watched them, plus they sparked good dialog with my daughters who had read the books...I asked a lot of questions, and up until HP6, they really didn't leave much out of the movies that would make much difference to me...HP6 they should have made it at least another 1/2 hour longer and added in key elements...of course I may not have felt that way so much if IMDB's front page Newsdesk headline didn't "spoil" the biggest plot twist at the end of that movie for me (Dumbledore)

I find it interesting which movies you didn't like...HP3 was one of my favorites overall, but it by far had the best "plot twisting" storyline out of all movies for me, even more than LOTR, although the new HP7.1 has now equaled it with regard to twists. Everything in HP3 was the opposite of how it appeared while first watching it...I would never have guessed what was going to happen in the second half of the movie in a million years...I was completely blown away by the twists in that one...a now HP7.1 has done the same + more. Can't imagine how they will be able to top or surpass that movie in the final one.

I think it must be that if you already read the book & know what the big plot twists are, then the movies aren't as enjoyable as they would be for someone like me who watched them not knowing anything of what's to come. And the one movie I did have a spoiler on, was the one I was a bit disappointed with. I would think that if I had read the books before seeing the movies, that I would sit there comparing it to the book(which could be quite exciting), instead of just enjoying a brand new story on the screen for the first time...I think that is a different kind of excitement.
Basically when you read a book for the first time, there is likely a certain shock effect from the twists and turns that you don't expect. If you read about it and then watch the movie, the book was basically one big spoiler on the plot twists, so it is a different kind of enjoyment. When I watched HP3 movie for the first time, that's when I received that shock effect from the plot twists...I would not have enjoyed it 1/3 as much if I knew what was going to happen with Sirius or the Rat or the Time Turner or the Petronus near the end.
I would guess that's why you despised HP3 & yet it is my co-all time favorite plot twist movie & one of my top 20 favorite movies overall.

Now I don't know the Voldemort from the books, but for me the one I see on screen is simply just awesome. Ralph Fiennes brings that same creepy evil that he did in "Red Dragon". Maybe having seen Red Dragon first made me biased towards that type of creepy evil, but for me it totally works... I see & feel how all the others fear him (with the exception of Dumbledore and Harry), and the depth of his evil from a young age to what he has done up until HP7.1 is ingenious and in no way dumb IMHO. He deceived even Dumbledore and everyone else in what he was doing all along in the depth of how dark the magic he was using is. In HP 4 & 5 especially when both Harry and Dumbledore have encounters with him, I thought he was awesome.



(This post was edited by sphdle1 on Nov 26 2010, 1:08pm)


dormouse
Half-elven

Nov 26 2010, 2:26pm

Post #57 of 69 (83 views)
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I do know Voldemort from the books, sphdle1 [In reply to] Can't Post

... and disagree wholeheartedly with the previous poster - I think Ralph Fiennes is brilliant in the part and exactly right. And you may have something in your assessment of the book/film relationship. Book 3 was my favourite and still takes a lot of beating (though 7 is right up there for me now as well). As a first read book 3 - Prisoner of Azkaban - is breathtaking - all those plot twists which take you unawares. But I was really disappointed in the film and still feel it doesn't match up to the book at all.

This is one reason I'm quite happy they are working background material in with 'The Hobbit'. So long as they keep the book as the main focus of the film and don't muck about with the story, the background/White Council stuff means there will be things in the film I'm not expecting, and unpredictable scenes.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 26 2010, 3:26pm

Post #58 of 69 (114 views)
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I am here to take an unpopular stand: [In reply to] Can't Post

I would preface this with 2 facts. First, I have yet to see the most recent Harry Potter movie (Deathly Hallows 50%). I have read all of the books twice and have listened to them each three times on unabridged CD. So I am not an expert but I am familiar with the books.

Here comes the part that will start the...audible response.

All of the Harry Potter movies with the exception of "The Prisoner of Azkaban" have failed as great cinema. Many have failed the content of the book that it purportedly adapted and at least one was just plain bad to the bone.

All of this is as always just the humble opinion of this old bird.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket

(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Nov 26 2010, 3:27pm)


sphdle1
Gondor


Nov 26 2010, 4:03pm

Post #59 of 69 (81 views)
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I think there is a huge difference between [In reply to] Can't Post

Reading the book first and then watching the movie, and not reading the book and then watching the movie.

I think you have a completely different experience, mindset and type of enjoyment(or lack there of) when watching a movie that you already have all the spoilers for, from having read the book first. Likewise it would be a completely different experience reading the book, for someone who saw the movie first, than for someone who didn't see the movie and read the book.

In most cases, I think a person's experience is always best that first time when they first see or read the plot twists & story lines. Learning and experiencing what happens for the first time is a magical thing that only happens once. "The Prisoner of Azkaban" is a perfect example of this. I never read the book and didn't have a clue what was going to happen in the movie when I first watched it...that first time seeing it wouldn't have been half as good if I knew what was going to happen. The plot twists were so awesome that first time I saw the movie, just like I'm sure they were the first time someone read the book (if that is the medium they first read/saw it in).

I enjoyed all the HP movies because I didn't know what was going to happen (with a partial exception of HP6 whereby IMDB gave out 'THE' mother of all spoilers for that movie). I'm sure if I read the book now it wouldn't be nearly as good compared to reading the book and not having seen the movie first.
Reading the books, all the characters and places would not be as much from my personal imagination, as they would be from what I saw in the movies. Likewise, with someone who read the books first, when watching the movie, I would think you would have a pre-conceived notion of what particular places or characters should look/talk like, and would be inclined to compare them to the ones in your head from the book. I think it's a different kind of excitement or enjoyment for someone who has read the books to watch the movie for the first time, than someone who hasn't.

Thus, not hard to see why some people really like, and some people don't like certain movies as much.



sphdle1
Gondor


Nov 26 2010, 4:20pm

Post #60 of 69 (75 views)
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Totally agree ... that first medium where you capture the one time element of surprise [In reply to] Can't Post

is always the best. That experience only happens once no matter what medium you saw/read it in, and it's like magic. Every time after that, you try to relive the experience, but it can never be quite the same, other than to remember what it was like that first time.

That's likely why HP6 for me was somehow not as good as the others ... IMDB had spoiled the biggest plot twist on me right on the front page.

Also, I think the biggest indicator of how good a movie is, isn't just how good the plot twists are, nor how blown away you were the first time watching it. But rather, how it resonates with you long after you saw it or read it. That's why HP 7.1 is becoming my favorite movie of all time right now ... I never had another movie resonate so much and so strongly as this last one ... I hadn't read the book and didn't have a clue what would happen ... after watching it, what resonated and stuck in my mind was how extreme & intense it was with the full spectrum of emotions from start to finish. I can't think of a single scene that didn't make me feel extreme sorrow, intense loneliness, extreme empathy, intense action/excitement, extreme mystery/puzzles, etc. Even the comedic moments were as good as any of the others. Not knowing what would happen next I was either on the edge of my seat, or felt great empathy/sorrow/loneliness of what the main characters were going through. It was a huge departure from the other movies. Somehow the movie felt like 8 hours & only 8 minutes long both at the same time.


sphdle1
Gondor


Nov 26 2010, 4:30pm

Post #61 of 69 (73 views)
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I agree in a specific way [In reply to] Can't Post

On one hand, I totally trust PJ and think TH movies will be great, and don't think there will be any problem with it being in two parts, especially having seen how the first HP7.1 movie ended so powerfully, yet without completely leaving you hanging on the edge of a cliff. Where and how to end the first movie is very important, and I think PJ & Co. know exactly where that should be, so no worries.

However, on the the other hand, I think movies can be measured against each other, such as with HP7 & TH movies.
I think the ultimate measure is how well it resonates with you long after you have left the theatre is the best indication. It is the reason so many people went back and saw Avatar, Titanic, LOTR, HP, StarWars, and other movies the 2nd, 3rd, etc. times.
Each movie can be better or worse depending on the individual's own subjective resonance of the movie. How strongly did it get in your head and how long does it stay there.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 26 2010, 4:52pm

Post #62 of 69 (76 views)
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I saw the first two movies [In reply to] Can't Post

with my son before I started on the books.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


sphdle1
Gondor


Nov 26 2010, 6:57pm

Post #63 of 69 (71 views)
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very interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

Most people I've talked to who have read the books say that the first movie was pretty much right on with the book.
I've never read them, so I can't comment a whole lot more.


FrodoEyes
Rivendell

Nov 27 2010, 10:30am

Post #64 of 69 (57 views)
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Man... [In reply to] Can't Post

You sure like your 'plot twists' don't you! I lost count of how many times i read that! Smile

I like the first 2 because they're exactly what they should be - kids movies, and very magical and fantastical, and the closest to the books.
The third is the last one with a happy ending and feels more grown-up, largely down to the change of director and visual look.
The fourth was my favourite, very fast paced and with a brilliant, emotional ending.
The fifth - well nothing really happened until the fight at the end. I enjoyed it, but not as much as the others.
The sixth - they really tore that book to pieces with no real reason. They should have focused less on the love stories and more on what the title of the movie was about!! Felt out of place when they're stood where Dumbledore died and Hermione is talking to Harry about 'snogging' Ginny.

As you haven't read the books, i'm interested in what YOU think will happen in the last movie? Who does what, how it ends, what 'plot twists' Wink there are etc...?

Oh, and also, when you have seen them all, i hope you will get around to reading the books? They're special in themselves, and so much richer and deeper.

And read The Hobbit too!!!!

'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'
'So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.'


FrodoEyes
Rivendell

Nov 27 2010, 10:35am

Post #65 of 69 (58 views)
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Hmm [In reply to] Can't Post

I enjoyed all the movies. I wouldn't say they're bad cinema, nor that they all failed as great cinema. The films themselves are very cinematic, and what cinema was invented for. I don't think you can say that just because they weren't translated word for word from the book. Adaption means just that - adapted from, not copied word for word from. Adaption means you can take characters and ideas from that source material but not necessarily take the same route the book did.
We see here how someone has really enjoyed the movies without reading the books, and in the end it's the same as when we were all moaning about changes to LOTR..... enjoy the book and film as 2 seperate entities, and appreciate them both!

'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'
'So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.'


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 27 2010, 6:04pm

Post #66 of 69 (51 views)
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I agree to an extent [In reply to] Can't Post

I liked all the films, but my least favourite so far have been Order of the Phoenix and Half-Blood Prince. They had the same Yates style so I sometimes mix up the two films a little; they're much less clearly defined and unique than, say, Prisoner of Azkaban or Goblet of Fire. As the books increased in length, the films cut more and more material. For me, one missing section that sticks out like a sore thumb is the scene in the fifth book where Harry and his friends visit Arthur Weasley in St Mungo's after Nagini attacks him, where they also meet Neville's parents and the still-amnesiatic Gilderoy Lockhart. That would have been wonderful to see. Another problem is what they've done to the Room of Requirement in the sixth film it was supposed to turn into a colossal cathedral-sized chamber where millions upon millions of hidden objects had been stored over the last thousand years, but instead it looks like the interior of someone's garage. They also cut out a crucially important thing that was supposed to happen there, and directly replaced it with more teen romance. Not to mention all the Pensieve flashbacks detailing Voldemort's mother and her family, how Tom Riddle came into possession of the cup and the locket, his Defence Against the Dark Arts job application and so on.

I should have seen all these cuts coming since the first unsatisfying omission, which was the Quidditch World Cup match in the fourth book the film literally skips a few hours ahead just as it's beginning. I would have cut the boring Yule Ball instead.

Books four, five and six should have been split into two parts each.


FrodoEyes
Rivendell

Nov 28 2010, 8:27pm

Post #67 of 69 (37 views)
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I quite liked... [In reply to] Can't Post

... the yule ball. Had a very nice feeling to it, and a few nights out of mine have ended the same way as it did for the trio! I.E. alot of disappointing ends to what was supposed to be a nice night out! I also loved Jarvis Cocker being on the soundtrack.
Agree with you about the last 2 films, although i find HBP more watchable than OOTP, despite all the plot gaps. The other films had their own identity, but that may be because they all had different directors. I did think the last 3 or 4 films should have the same director though, for continuity, but maybe they also need a bit more attention to the script-writing!
I'm quite glad they didn't go to St.Mungo's. It would have been nice to see the hospital, and Neville's parents, but i've never been a fan of Lockhart.
And yes, i agree about the crucially important thing comment! And found Ginny's comment to Harry quite odd, where she asked him if she should stay hidden there too. Infact alot of Ginny's lines have been odd or badly acted.
Apparantly there were 'too many' flashbacks for yates' liking, but we should at least have seen the Riddle House flashback.
I think all the films could do with a LOTR-style extended edition!

'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'
'So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.'


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 28 2010, 8:59pm

Post #68 of 69 (33 views)
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Now that you mention it... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I think all the films could do with a LOTR-style extended edition!

Some material was actually filmed that still hasn't been seen. There's one scene in Philosopher's Stone where Peeves the poltergeist (who has yet to appear in the films) shows up, throwing water balloons at first years or something like that. A couple of years ago, there were rumours of a director's cut that would restore some of the unused material, but nothing ever came of it as far as I'm aware.



FrodoEyes
Rivendell

Nov 29 2010, 6:42pm

Post #69 of 69 (82 views)
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Also.... [In reply to] Can't Post

on some the dvd's we have deleted scenes. I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this!

'I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.'
'So do all who live to see such times but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.'

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