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Hengist
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 18 2010, 1:34pm

Post #51 of 65 (237 views)
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Just wondering [In reply to] Can't Post

how do you know one of the "guests" isn't an admin who hasn't logged in ....


" So let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the King of the Potato People and plead with him for your freedom, and you're telling me you're completely sane? "


Magpie
Immortal


Nov 18 2010, 2:23pm

Post #52 of 65 (248 views)
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I think it takes more than a high post count or even years on a forum to make a good admin [In reply to] Can't Post

Having hosted a small forum, functioned as a partial admin at another, and having been a TA in an online class, I think whoever came up with those three names (which I will assume was all the admins but I don't know) got it exactly right. I think they found three people who meet all the qualifications I would look for. I have no idea if my name was considered or not but I'm going to use me as an example because ti works well to make the point I want to make. Sometimes I look like a good candidate for a leadership role and I can kind of pull it off... but not completely. When I first did my personality profile in a Myers-Briggs questionnaire, I got pegged as the person who volunteers for church socials and is always chairing events. That freaked me out. I not only wasn't that person, it frightened me to even imagine myself in that role. I found another, more extensive questionnaire that asked more detailed questions and I came back with a personality profile that felt instantly and completely right. I think the two profiles share a lot of outward attributes but the inner life of each was quite different from the other. And thus, the types of roles they were best suited for were different.

I think we would all 'kind of' like a stab at an admin job. It's a forum we love. With people we enjoy and respect. And the tone of the place is so elevated from much of what we see on the net. And we like and admire our admins (not every site does). And I felt a twinge of that 'aww... they didn't ask me'. But only a twinge. Not only do I know how much work it is and how much abuse and nastiness one has to deal with out of the public eye, I know I am not a good candidate for it. Some of why I'm not is transitory life stuff and could change down the road. But some of it is due to aspects of my personality that do not, in the long run, make me happy in an leadership/admin role. I try to work on those... we all need to stretch ourselves... but I think there are some parts of ourselves that don't change all that much no matter how much we tug and pull.

I have so much respect for the people who admin here that I think, should my name ever come up, that they would have a good read on me (by virtue of my being here so long and having posted enough to make it to Valinor... and through my work on other extracurricular types of board activities) that they would know this. I suppose they might be kind and ask anyhow, but then the inevitable misfit of attributes to job description would erupt and how does that make their job easier to deal with that? I always tell people when I volunteer for a position, I want to make your job easier... if it's creating more work for you, you must tell me and we will fix that.

So, all this is to make my point of, I think these people know exactly what it takes to be a good admin and it's more than most of us ken by just being here. If all it takes is a high post count to be invited, I can think of at least one person who would have done their darndest to obtain that... they so coveted that role. And if that person where to obtain it, it would be my last day here... and I suspect the worst thing that could have happened to the boards.
I not only am comfortable with them making these sorts of decisions privately and selectively... I advocate for it. :-)



And one comment about my frank evaluation of myself. It may look like I have self doubt or I feel like I'm lacking. I am lacking in some ways. We all are. And sometimes I look at others who possess attributes I wish I had and I sigh a little. But we all have strengths, too. And I chose to let my strengths shine, push some of my weaknesses in an attempt to strengthen them, and just work around the rest of the weaknesses. If I'm not good with leadership roles, I am darned effective in the support roles. I rock as 'administrative assistant'. Give me a task to do on my own, and I will do it double. So, it's not that I feel I'm not 'good enough' for leadership. It's that I'm not always the 'right one'.

:-)




LOTR soundtrack website ~ June 2010 : ROTK Lyrics Update!
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


sador
Half-elven


Nov 18 2010, 3:50pm

Post #53 of 65 (214 views)
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Of course! [In reply to] Can't Post

All Sir Dennis was suggesting is that those who have been the most active are in a position to recommend good admins, and I was arguing against discussing it publicly. I am sure that several of those with a lower post count than myself could make far better admins than I ever could (entmaiden and Earl, to name two); but I think that people who have been very active in the last couple of years do have a good idea of the attributes and qualities of others.

"Welcome, and well met!" - Gloin.

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"I confess that I am madly in love with Tolkienís description of flowers, although I, unlike Tolkien, do not take any special interest in the kinship and taxonomy of plants."
- Elostirion 74.



SirDennisC
Half-elven


Nov 18 2010, 6:22pm

Post #54 of 65 (226 views)
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Good point [In reply to] Can't Post

Anyway, not trying to cast aspersions on the site or anyone, admins or otherwise. I have nothing but gratitude for TORn's existence and nothing but admiration for the admins and staff. The newest additions are fine choices one and all.

Just a couple points and/or clarifications:

When I wrote I would have picked 2 of the three, I wasn't suggesting one of the three was a bad choice. What I meant was that even had nominations -- by PM of course Sador ;) -- been extended to the wider board membership, 2 of the three would have been on my list of suggestions. The third? Well they would have been on the list of the many people around here whom I admire but did not nominate either. Glass half full you know?

(That and as Ataahua has pointed out on more than one occasion, I am a stirrer by trade.)

By way of explanation of the term "regulars" I agree with Magpie and Sador that post count is not a good measure of status in this regard. I was thinking more of longevity in this case, say, at least a year? There are quite a few members who have been around for quite some time who have not even made it out of Bree. The interesting thing there is that when they do post not only do they evidence a firm grasp of TORn culture and discussions, but what they write tends to the profound. At the same time, there are some who have employed little better than spammer tactics to attain lofty post counts!

In response to Magpie's thoughtful post: one would hope that anyone asked to join the admin team would look beyond the apparent status boost (elite geek? head nerd?) that comes with the job. And yes, if done right, being a forum admin is a job. At that, a thankless job that opens one up to all sorts of abuse. When I was an admin on a political site, because I was cracking down on some very abhorrent (hateful, racist, poisonous) personalities, someone went so far as to post distorted stories about my wife and myself in an open forum. Good times. In the face of such resistance, I saw the effort through to the end and helped turn the site around. But I would think long and hard (tee hee) about taking a moderator position again, even at TORn, even at twice the pay. Here at least the nastiness seems to be confined to behind the scenes. On a bad day, out in the open, the worst an admin might feel is slightly separate and apart from the community that drew them here in the first place. But the risk is still there, I am sure.

Still, perhaps as a product of being excluded from the process, one wonders if they (that is, herself) was on the list? There a few others around here at least deserving of consideration.

On the one hand I agree with the idea of admins proffering candidates and making appointments after some debate amongst themselves. If nothing else this heads off the popularity contest a wider (quasi democratic) selection process could become -- along with all the very real damage and hurt feelings such a contest can produce.

On the other hand, as Sador infers, site content (by and large) is created and driven by a small army of "regulars" who have a pretty good sense of whom among their peers embody the tone and substance they look for when coming to TORn. Without them, TORn would just be a bulletin board rather than the interesting place to hang out that it is.

In other words, a system of wider consultation -- paired with absolute final say on who gets appointed belonging to the admins -- would at least acknowledge the contributions many others make to this shared experience.

imhoHeart


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Nov 18 2010, 6:30pm)


Inferno
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 18 2010, 6:42pm

Post #55 of 65 (224 views)
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Quickly [In reply to] Can't Post

as I've got just a short break in the workflow:

We discussed somewhere between one and two dozen names. Some people were determined to be too busy with other projects, some had enough overlap with existing staff as to be considered redundant at present, and some were pointed out to be poor choices not because they'd be bad admins, but because making them admins would ruin the fun they have on the site. We selected three, but had a few others in reserve, in the event any of the three turned the job offer down, and we'll be keeping those candidates in mind in the event we decide we need more.

If you feel like someone got the shaft in not getting picked, it's possible that we considered them, but decided that they'd be happier as regular posters instead, or had enough on their plate right now where we didn't want to overburden them.

It was a very long discussion (140+ posts among what is, essentially a staff of around a dozen or so), and we considered a lot of people. =)

Inferno.

======================
Good night, tOR.Nados. Good work. Sleep well. I'll most likely delete you in the morning.
======================
Elcenia

(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 18 2010, 7:43pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 18 2010, 7:10pm

Post #56 of 65 (237 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Over the years there have been occasional calls for new admins. The response has always been "E-mail TPTB". So I wonder what input, if any, the admins had? On the other hand, I'd say that the current choices are exactly the ones TPTB wanted.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Nov 18 2010, 7:50pm

Post #57 of 65 (233 views)
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Thanks Inferno [In reply to] Can't Post

No, no I don't think anyone got the shaft (yes sometimes it is nice being free from the constraints of admin-ship ;) ). My comments on this subject -- not as a general rule mind you -- should be taken at face value. No gripe here, no hurt feelings, etc.

Just commenting on the process and site culture in general. As I said long ago I am fascinated by online communications, its nature, its subtleties, the great amount of goodwill required when trying to engage in meaningful discussions with anonymous virtual strangers...

Regardless, anyone I might have suggested most likely would have been thought of by the admins anyway, and many others. More importantly, they are already aware of the contributions they make to the site and their place in our community. These are people who already help promote and protect our little slice of online heaven here.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Nov 18 2010, 7:52pm)


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 18 2010, 11:50pm

Post #58 of 65 (238 views)
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May I point you to Inferno's excellent answer, if you haven't read it yet [In reply to] Can't Post

She summed it all up beautifully. The only thing I'd clarify, purely in answer to your question, is that it was the admins who started the process - though, when you asked about input from "admins," maybe you meant "PTB." At any rate, once we finished discussing, we made our recommendations to the PTB, and they approved them.


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 19 2010, 12:28am

Post #59 of 65 (228 views)
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Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice to know TPTB listen to the admins... mods... trollbusters...board...thing.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 19 2010, 10:05am

Post #60 of 65 (188 views)
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Praise them with great praise!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

How about their legs? They won't need them.Evil

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 19 2010, 11:02am

Post #61 of 65 (590 views)
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But you'd better watch out [In reply to] Can't Post

for how quickly you run with your fingers!

Evil


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




weaver
Half-elven

Nov 21 2010, 7:26am

Post #62 of 65 (199 views)
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here's to you three musketeers! [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice to see that more good hands have been added to the most excellent list of admins here. And three of my favorite people, no less! Hooray!

Like Treebeard had to do with the hobbits, dernwyn will need to update the Lore of the TORn-staff for our next FD. You get to add yourself to the list, how cool is that?

Weaver




dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 21 2010, 1:24pm

Post #63 of 65 (183 views)
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Oh, no! [In reply to] Can't Post

I forgot about that - what troublemakers we three are, messing up the "old lists"! Laugh


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




weaver
Half-elven

Nov 21 2010, 4:07pm

Post #64 of 65 (254 views)
Shortcut
I see you are now on another special list! [In reply to] Can't Post

I also just spotted Sador's congrats to you on becoming Immortal! To think, it was a BOTR post that got you there -- ha!

I for one appreciate all the times you stop by to add an encouraging response to people's posts, mine included -- all those dernwyn comments help bring out the best in everyone -- and what a nice way to work your way to immortality. Congrats and thanks!

Weaver




dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 23 2010, 12:32am

Post #65 of 65 (283 views)
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Thank you, weaver! [In reply to] Can't Post

Blush

But - praise from the praiseworthy: you too are an encourager, and one who keeps things moving Smile!

*Hugs*, weaver!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915



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