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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Bilbo meets 10-year old Aragorn in Rivendell
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Eruonen
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2010, 7:39pm

Post #26 of 44 (291 views)
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I am sure both of his kids will be in the film.... [In reply to] Can't Post

 


FarFromHome
Valinor


Nov 9 2010, 7:44pm

Post #27 of 44 (278 views)
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That's a long time... [In reply to] Can't Post

... for Sam to be pining silently for Rosie.


Quote
I think it could conceivably have been four or five years in the film-verse (if you do wish to view it as a separate universe). Maybe even six or seven if you stretch it.


And a long time for Merry and Pippin to stay the mischievous laddish lads they are at the Party and are still at the start of the Quest.

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 9 2010, 7:50pm

Post #28 of 44 (256 views)
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I did say it was a stretch. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Plurmo
Rohan

Nov 9 2010, 11:14pm

Post #29 of 44 (267 views)
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A boy quietly reading a book near the Narsil shards [In reply to] Can't Post

could be enough to make the audience relate to Aragorn. I don't know why would they show that place in The Hobbit, though. Perhaps Elrond would be doing one of his classic rant filled strolls around Rivendell and boy Aragorn would hide behind his book just when the "men are weak!" part was said.Laugh


Elizabeth
Valinor


Nov 10 2010, 1:43am

Post #30 of 44 (225 views)
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They'll probably turn up [In reply to] Can't Post

as terrified kids in Esgaroth, at the very least!






Sign up now in the Reading Room to lead a chapter discussion of LotR Book II!

Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'


RosieLass
Valinor


Nov 10 2010, 2:02am

Post #31 of 44 (218 views)
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They must be teenagers by now, aren't they? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Nov 10 2010, 10:07am

Post #32 of 44 (210 views)
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Possible, but ... [In reply to] Can't Post

You would have to assume that Gandalf spent about 16 years sitting in the archives at Minas Tirith looking for the evidence about the Ring that he finds in the scroll of Isildur. I find that a bit hard to imagine. Not impossible, but very unlikely. The film certainly gives the impression that Gandalf rushed to Minas Tirith, found the scroll within, maybe, months, and rushed back. I have always taken the gap to be less than a year.


King Isildur of Gondor
The Shire


Nov 10 2010, 4:38pm

Post #33 of 44 (179 views)
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Honestly... [In reply to] Can't Post

....I wouldn't mind seeing a 10-year-old Aragorn in the Hobbit movies. For me it would be interesting to see a great character at another age of his life, and besides, a very important character in the Middle Earth mythology.

- Isildur, son of Elendil -




Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 10 2010, 5:49pm

Post #34 of 44 (186 views)
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Isn't that essentially what happened in the book? [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf sitting in the Minas Tirith archives for sixteen years? I think I remember feeling mildly perplexed when I first read it, but I got over that quickly enough and focused on the story instead.


Quote
You would have to assume that Gandalf spent about 16 years sitting in the archives at Minas Tirith looking for the evidence about the Ring that he finds in the scroll of Isildur. I find that a bit hard to imagine. Not impossible, but very unlikely.



moreorless
Rohan

Nov 10 2010, 5:52pm

Post #35 of 44 (185 views)
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I could only see it working if we get Sauron/Necromancer exposition.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Just introducing a young Aragorn without any kind of background seems like a distracting waste of time to me. The only way I could see it being effective is if we get a signifcant discussion about the Necromancer/Sauron between Gandalf and Elrond with Aragorn being worked into it. Perhaps have Bilbo meet him and then have some vague conservation that brings up details with Gandalf and Elrond watching at a distance and then having a dicusion they way they do with a healed Frodo in FOTR.

If you want to make a really big guess as to the change thats going to piss fans off the most then what about Aragorn not only being older than 10 but actually replacing Bard rather than being in Rivendell? I hope it doesnt happen as with all of film 2 to play with their should be time to build up Bards character but you have to admit the two characters are very similar.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Nov 10 2010, 5:57pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 10 2010, 6:03pm

Post #36 of 44 (171 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

He also has to scout out Mordor and find out that Barad-dur has been rebuilt and Sauron's orcs have multiplied. Then he has to look everywhere for Gollum. It takes a long time to look everywhere.

******************************************
NARFOT since 1967.

NARFOP since 2001.

I'm NARFOB and I'm proud!!


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Nov 10 2010, 7:05pm

Post #37 of 44 (170 views)
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I don't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm off in the depths of Sussex without my LOTR with me. But basically as I recall much of that time Gandalf was searching for Gollum on and off, with the help of Aragorn. (He wanted to find out if his suspicions about Bilbo's ring were correct.) He eventually gave that up and went to search the archives at Minas Tirith, where he found the scroll. Then he heard about Aragorn's capture of Gollum and went to Thranduil's realm to question Gollum. That's when he learned about how Gollum got the Ring and was captured by Sauron and tortured, the story he tells Frodo after that 17-year gap.

One thing the film does to eliminate the 17-year gap is not to have Gandalf question Gollum. Of course, that leaves the open question as to how he knew that Gollum had told the names "Baggins" and "Shire" to Sauron's minions.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Nov 10 2010, 7:18pm

Post #38 of 44 (168 views)
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I might be able to help here [In reply to] Can't Post

- I have my reading copy of LotR on my lap as I type. (thank goodness for large print editions!)

'It was just at this time that Gandalf reappeared after his long absence. For three years after the Party he had been away. Then he paid Frodo a brief visit...During the next year or two he had turned up fairly often... Then syddenly his visits had ceased. It was over nine years since Frodo had seen or heard of him..
(FR - The Shadow of the Past)

The story of what Gandalf gets up to in the 17 years is summarised nicely in Appendix B, 'The tale of Years'. Here's a relevant bit:

3017 - Gollum is released from Mordor. He is taken by Aragorn in the dead Marshes, and brought to Thranduil in Mirkwood. Gandalf visits Minas Tirith and reads the scroll of Isildur'.


Auraran
Lorien

Nov 10 2010, 7:58pm

Post #39 of 44 (150 views)
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Thanks for the quotes [In reply to] Can't Post

This really makes it clear!


Auraran
Lorien

Nov 10 2010, 8:02pm

Post #40 of 44 (144 views)
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I was struck by the same thing [In reply to] Can't Post

You wrote; "you have to admit the two characters are very similar.:

Teh stimilarities between Bard and Aragorn are striking!


sticklebat
Lorien


Nov 11 2010, 1:16am

Post #41 of 44 (138 views)
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No thanks. [In reply to] Can't Post

Absolutely unnecessary & absolutey nothing to do with story.

Tri duath telich na estel lin...a si gerich naid bain anirach.


Patty
Immortal


Nov 11 2010, 4:59am

Post #42 of 44 (121 views)
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I see Billy Jackson was born in 1995, so too old to play a 10 year old Aragorn. [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't mind that character in the movie but with no lines or no more lines then, say, Figwit.

Permanent address: Into the West

Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!



Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Nov 11 2010, 5:18am

Post #43 of 44 (131 views)
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Please PJ... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Has this ever been discussed before?

I just did the math and saw that Bilbo set out on the Quest of Erebor in 2941 T.A. (Third Age) and would’ve met 10-year old Aragorn in Rivendell – since Aragorn was born in 2931 T.A. and taken in by Elrond c. 2933 T.A., at about age two.

Aragorn didn’t leave Rivendell till age 20 in 2951 T.A. so was definitely there when Bilbo and the Dwarves passed through.

This will be great in the movie for the sake of continuity! I hope they include it. Maybe PJ can even have young Aragorn begging Elrond to let him go with Bilbo and the Dwarves to slay the dragon, and Elrond having to firmly say no.

What reason would Elrond have to hide Aragorn from trusted visitors since he had renamed him Estel and was careful to never discuss his lineage? (Maybe if Aragorn persists in asking, Elrond could slip and say, "I said no, Aragorn! .... er, I mean Estel!")



sk8maven
Registered User

Nov 24 2010, 6:58am

Post #44 of 44 (112 views)
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I make it not less than one year since Bilbo's Birthday Party [In reply to] Can't Post

but not more than five, and it has to be to the day. Otherwise the timing doesn't work out. IMHO Frodo, Merry, Pippin and Sam were celebrating The Birthday at the Green Dragon when things started rolling.

That does screw with other people's backstories a bit, notably Aragorn's. In the movie-verse he'd probably be off in Rohan and out of the picture (literally).

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