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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
A question about Sauron's role in the Hobbit...possible spoilers
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moreorless
Rohan

Nov 10 2010, 6:22pm

Post #26 of 31 (184 views)
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I suspect that there will be more of a "fall" in the Hobbit than in the books... [In reply to] Can't Post

We know from the book that Saurons defeat in the Hobbit is nothing more than a calulated retreat but I suspect in the film it will become more of a real defeat(even if the wise know he isnt destroyed) which could explain him shifting form. It makes sense iof you think about it as it gives the film a much better climax than the wise merely being duped.

He could of course be shown as an eyeball in the Hobbit aswell above Dol Guldor but did PJ state that we would see the "reason" for his change in the Hobbit? That and the more direct confrontation with the White Council makes me think he'll have some kind of physical form, hopefully not "armour Sauron" since that suggests power he isnt sposed to posses at that time and would in any case be pretty boring in a more prolonged role rather than just a battle IMHO. Some kind of wrathlike presense in a human like form makes more sense, some kind of demonic shadow with glowing eyes perhaps?


AinurOlorin
Half-elven

Nov 10 2010, 9:32pm

Post #27 of 31 (182 views)
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There indeed are a number of similarities between Sauron and Saruman [In reply to] Can't Post

Besides the names. Curinir, The Man of Skill,. Both of them are famed for their abilities in craft and device making. As to The Balrogs. . . well, Sauron was long able to shift shape and to assume fair forms. The Balrogs were as locked in the evil forms they chose as Melkor later became in his. There is no denying that they had vast power of sorcery, but in form they remained ever demonic.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Arathorn
The Shire

Nov 11 2010, 6:21pm

Post #28 of 31 (172 views)
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Considering it's a sequel [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
We know from the book that Saurons defeat in the Hobbit is nothing more than a calulated retreat but I suspect in the film it will become more of a real defeat(even if the wise know he isnt destroyed) which could explain him shifting form. It makes sense iof you think about it as it gives the film a much better climax than the wise merely being duped.

I can see it. After the battle of Dol Guldur is won, one of the "good guys" will be joyful that the White Council had victory, and Gandalf will turn to him to state: "Victory? Victory, you say? Not victory. Begun the Ring War has."

"Gods don't like people not doing much work. People who aren't busy all the time may start to think."
- Terry Pratchett, Small Gods



moreorless
Rohan

Nov 14 2010, 3:52pm

Post #29 of 31 (150 views)
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Everything tied together [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
We know from the book that Saurons defeat in the Hobbit is nothing more than a calulated retreat but I suspect in the film it will become more of a real defeat(even if the wise know he isnt destroyed) which could explain him shifting form. It makes sense iof you think about it as it gives the film a much better climax than the wise merely being duped.

I can see it. After the battle of Dol Guldur is won, one of the "good guys" will be joyful that the White Council had victory, and Gandalf will turn to him to state: "Victory? Victory, you say? Not victory. Begun the Ring War has."


Yeah that pretty much, whatever Lucas's other crimes agenst screenwritting having a clear challange for the protagonists makes sense although hopefully with a less cheesey wind up.

Many have scoffed at it but I'v thought from the start the most obvious change(if your going to have the white council sections onscreen) is to tie The White Council, Smaug and the Battle of the 5 armies together as closely as possible. We do afterall have some text from Tolkien where Gandalf acknowledges the reason he set th quest in motion in the first place was to get ride of Smaug before Sauron could make use of him. Add in Bolg's army(maybe even make it an army from Dol Guldor) as part of a plan for Sauron to take control of that area of middle earth and you've got a pretty strong narrative to tie the second film together.


dave_lf
Gondor

Nov 15 2010, 1:28pm

Post #30 of 31 (151 views)
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That is almost certainly what will happen [In reply to] Can't Post

, IMO. Whether book-fans like it or not, it makes too much cinematic sense to pass up. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we hear the goblins of the Misty Mountains drop lines about their new boss in the forest. Heck, I wouldn't even be surprised in they turn out to be a Lurtz-style raiding party from Dol Guldur.

Edit: Further; they cut Sauron from the Morannon in RotK, but maybe this time the temptation will just be too strong and the Necromancer himself will show up at the battle. This would prevent them from needing to do two separate battle scenes at the climax, and would bring everyone from the Erebor and Dol Guldur storylines together in one place for the final scenes.


(This post was edited by dave_lf on Nov 15 2010, 1:34pm)


dave_lf
Gondor

Nov 15 2010, 4:04pm

Post #31 of 31 (1185 views)
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Except... [In reply to] Can't Post

as I just discovered by reading something Voronwe_the_Faithful referred to in another context, Guillermo specifically mentioned a "Gundabad army" in one of his posts back in the day:

http://newboards.theonering.net/...?post=209295;#209295

But Sauron could still be shown as the mastermind behind it.

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