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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The truth will set you free.

Evernight
Rivendell


Feb 10 2010, 6:41pm

Post #1 of 10 (425 views)
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The truth will set you free. Can't Post

In the film, do you think Bilbo will tell the truth about how he got the Ring to the dwarves? The LOTR films didn't use this plot point (Bilbo lying about the finding of the Ring) so, would it be out of place in The Hobbit?

In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Feb 10 2010, 6:46pm

Post #2 of 10 (231 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I would think that it would be a good opportunity to show how the Ring is affecting Bilbo early on. In a movie where they need to find a balance between the less-powerful ring of TH and the all-powerful ring of LOTR, I wouldn't think they'd want to throw away a clue that's already written into the books.



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Darkstone
Immortal


Feb 10 2010, 7:05pm

Post #3 of 10 (212 views)
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Which will be the macguffin? [In reply to] Can't Post

It depends on how the writers are dealing with the themes of The Hobbit. In the book this is a very important moment in Bilbo's development as this is the first of his lies. He's well on his way to losing respectability because of the taste of adventure. Of course the writers may decide to have the lying indicate the corrupting power of the One Ring that will come to the fore in LOTR. But the real corrupting object of The Hobbit is the Arkenstone which Bilbo will lie about later in a very important plot point. I'm unsure if having two completely different corrupting objects in the film would work. If they hint he's lying because of the One Ring then they'll probably have to downplay the greed inspired by the Arkenstone. A pity, but that's what happens when you decide to film "A Prequel to LOTR" rather than "The Hobbit".

******************************************
That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.

(This post was edited by Darkstone on Feb 10 2010, 7:07pm)


GaladrielTX
Tol Eressea


Feb 10 2010, 11:46pm

Post #4 of 10 (201 views)
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I was surprised [In reply to] Can't Post

when we discussed The Hobbit in the Reading Room that people considered Bilbo’s secrecy about the Ring as corruption. I had always regarded it as a relatively innocent prank in which Bilbo laughed up his sleeve at the Dwarves. I don’t remember: Does he actually lie, or does he just not tell the Dwarves how he crept up on them?

Anyway, sure, put it in.

~~~~~~~~

The TORNsib formerly known as Galadriel.



white_elf
The Shire


Feb 11 2010, 6:59am

Post #5 of 10 (134 views)
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It was a lie, but [In reply to] Can't Post

the context was that he just didn't feel like sharing the secret at that time. The inferrence was that he eventually would tell the dwarves. Balin asks him how he managed to get in without being seen. Bilbo answers something like he 'just crept in stealthily and silently'. Both Gandalf and Balin have reactions that suggest they at least partially doubted the story.


(This post was edited by white_elf on Feb 11 2010, 7:00am)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Feb 11 2010, 10:28am

Post #6 of 10 (158 views)
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The lie was, that the ring was won and given freely as reward. [In reply to] Can't Post

The truth was the ring was found and kept even after the ownership by Gollum was recognized. This technically was theft: an act of burglary if you will.
The greater truth was the sleepy ring of power was awakening with its one true master and was seeking a way out of the cave.
The greatest truth was that Bilbo was meant to have the ring that he might pass it to Frodo who would lose it along with his joy for living but get invited on a great vacation; a cruise to white shores and...

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.




GaladrielTX
Tol Eressea


Feb 11 2010, 1:33pm

Post #7 of 10 (139 views)
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Here's the passage. [In reply to] Can't Post

"'And here's the burglar!' said Bilbo stepping down into the middle of them, and slipping off the ring.

"Bless me, how they jumped! Then they shouted with surprise and delight. Gandalf was as astonished as any of them, but probably more pleased than all the others. He called to Balin and told him what he thought of a look-out man who let people walk right into them like that without warning. It is a fact that Bilbo's reputation went up a very great deal with the dwarves after this. If they had still doubted that he was really a first-class burglar, in spite of Gandalf's words, they doubted no longer. Balin was the most puzzled of all; but everyone said it was a very clever bit of work.

"Indeed Bilbo was so plesed with their praise that he chuckled inside and said nothing whatever about the ring; and when they asked him how he did it, he said: 'Oh, just crept along, you know - very carefully and quietly.'"

"' Well, it is the first time that even a mouse has crept along carefully and quietly under my vary nose and not been spotted,' said Balin, 'and I take off my hood to you.' Which he did."

So my recollection wasn't quite correct. He does shade the truth a bit, by saying he "just" snuck up on them, meaning his stealth was the only thing that helped him elude Balin. Also, Bilbo wasn't having a laugh at the dwarves but rather was basking in their praise. It's a reward he didn't earn, and it soothes his vanity, having gotten little respect from them up till now. It doesn't make it right, but I still think it's not as sinister as some would make it. It's the kind of white lie people might tell at any time without a Ring of Power.

Also, in the passage above, I'm not so sure Gandalf felt something unusual was going on. His first instinct is to reprimand Balin for being careless in his job as a lookout man. Of course, it's possible Gandalf didn't become wary until after Bilbo gives his dubious explanation.

~~~~~~~~

The TORNsib formerly known as Galadriel.



(This post was edited by GaladrielTX on Feb 11 2010, 1:43pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Feb 11 2010, 2:38pm

Post #8 of 10 (115 views)
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Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

It's kind of like all those fibs, half-truths, and lies of omission that Harry Potter gives to Dumbledore. (Tolkien copied so much from Rowling.) For Bilbo it's just he wants to bask in the praise of Gandalf and the Dwarves without sharing credit with the ring. He'll tell the truth later, after the fight with the spiders. So really it's an innocent and childish moment. But if the writers want to presage the One Ring of LOTR and bring in the White Council and the Necromancer they'll probably have to make this an ominous moment, with spooky music and bulgy eyes. Which would anticipate and thus spoil the wonderfully dark moment in Bag End where Bilbo first uses the phrase "My precious" and Gandalf freaks out. A pity.

******************************************
That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Feb 11 2010, 2:51pm

Post #9 of 10 (93 views)
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Bilbo confesses later [In reply to] Can't Post

as the use of the ring cannot be concealed. Balin really likes the fact.

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.




Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Feb 11 2010, 3:06pm

Post #10 of 10 (147 views)
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Much better if they use the real lie [In reply to] Can't Post

As Kangi pointed out, the "lie" that shows the influence of the Ring is not whether he had the Ring, but how he got it. And, of course, that "lie" doesn't exist in any edition of The Hobbit, but rather exists as the difference between the first and second editions, and is described in LOTR. I think they could have Bilbo tell the Dwarves the false story (which we will know is the false story, since we will have seen the "true" events) without making it into a big ominous moment, and perhaps have Gandalf briefly wonder at the veracity of the tale. That would set things up nicely for LOTR without spoiling the "My precious" moment.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

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