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Consider this for a proposal...THE SILMARILLION commited to film at some point

GAUTREAUX
Registered User

Nov 26 2009, 8:52pm

Post #1 of 20 (895 views)
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Consider this for a proposal...THE SILMARILLION commited to film at some point Can't Post

Since we have all been seeing the gradual evolution of Tolkien's universe in retro-active mode of late from the LOTR's trilogy to the nowsoon-to-be HOBBIT trilogy (potentially) I am keen, intrigued and interested to see if this grand sweep of creative flair cannot be channeled towards THE SIMARILLION (I hope I spelt that right, appologies for my lack of Tolkien word use...honest! :-) ) This< I realise would be a stupendeous challenge but I see it as a way of bringing to the screen - at least the first couple of chapters - something akin to the abstracted visuals in 2001: A Space Odyssey more-or-less towards the "Trip Through The Star Gate" sequence and the abstracted visuals of the beginnings of the universe and such. I'm sure you can get where I'm going with this and the potential "Genisis-like" story telling of sorts not that I am religious or anything but the visual spectacle of this commited to screen aiding to the fact that everything in THE SILMARILLION world is, for the large part, SUPER-SIZED! The film experience potential as well as any attempt to even cature such visuals and commit them to screen for us to as film-goers to bear witness to would be JAW-DROPPING!!! :-o and thats putting it mildly... hope therte are some others out ther who share this similar type of gigantic vision! :-) Think about for just a minute... It would be utterly MIND-BLOWING!!! Come and chat to me about it people.... :-)


xy
Rohan

Nov 26 2009, 9:13pm

Post #2 of 20 (400 views)
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hm [In reply to] Can't Post

I would like to see it, I think Silmarillion could out-epic the epicness in LOTR. But maybe a high budget TV series, they can't confine the story in the shape of movies. LOTR had three 3hour long movies and they still skipped a lot...think of what little would be seen from Silmarillion in this shape.

Realistically, I'm more curious about a "bridge" movie between Hobbit and LOTR sometime in the future, or Children of Hurin.


(This post was edited by xy on Nov 26 2009, 9:13pm)


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Nov 26 2009, 10:53pm

Post #3 of 20 (473 views)
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The Silmarillion on HBO [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello Gautreaux! Welcome to the forums, I hope you have a great time. Anyway, we've discussed this before, and it simply CANNOT happen.

The Tolkien Estate which is completely anti-adaptation, owns full rights to the Silmarillion, and it's thus, not adaptable on film or the like. LotR and The Hobbit could be done because those rights belong to other parties who acquired them eons ago, before Tolkien died.

Anyway, for the sake of argument, let me re-paste my 20 chapter outline for a Silmarillion series on HBO (I've posted this twice before) Here and here. I don't think it can be done on film, for the same reasons mentioned above, so I believe something à la Band of Brothers or Rome, with Weta in the effects and the Jackson and producers would be the best thing to do. There is the possibility of having many directors, and yet have a coherent vision with the films.



Quote

The Silmarillion on HBO

Some time, when we were in this discussion, I said that productions such as Rome, Band of Brothers, and the upcoming Star Wars live action series demonstrate how TV has actually become a great way to produce what would be impossible for a feature film, with a comparable quality. That said, of course I'd love a Silmarillion series, and I do believe that will be possible in the long term, after everything is settled in the state once Christopher is no longer with us. But that's another entire topic for discussion.

What would a Silmarillion series allow? Different writers, different directors. That would be nice.

What would be necessary in Silmarillion series? Cohersion. As the Star Wars novels are planned, the series should have an overall visual and acoustic feel, with general guidelines creative teams for each chapter would have to follow, let's say, "guided creativity".

What would I love of a Silmarillion series? Well, it would be ideal if this was treated like a movie, and furthermore, an extension of LotR/The Hobbit that would mean Lee, Howe and Nasmith (very importantly so for any Silmarillion imagery) as conceptual artists, and why not, WETA in postproduction. It would be very nice to see this series, and know that it takes place in the same world than the theatrical LotR. That of course doesn't mean PJ or Howard Shore (necessarily), just keep treating Middle Earth as a historical place, whose appearance people already know.

The Silmarillion series could encompass the whole book. In fact, I just found the table of contents over at Barnes & Noble ( I borrowed my Silmarillion copy) and I will try to fit it into chapters, as I would think it could be distributed. Excuse me if I don't remember what exactly happens in each chapter, I just read the book once.

Chapter 1: The Prologue. It gives the background to the story in an hour. The creation, the Ainur, the first apperance of the Elves. It encompasses:

Ainulindale

Valaquenta

Of the Beginning of Days

Of Aule and Yavanna

Of the Coming of the Elves and the Captivity of Melkor




Chapters 2 and 3: The Elves. Characters are introduced, the whole tree/lamps/sun and moon problematic is presented, the creation of the Silmarills. I think all these chapters are quite interesting to read, but could not be followed closely in many chapters.

Of Thingol and Melian

Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie

Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor

Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor

Of the Darkening of Valinor

Of the Flight of the Noldor

Of the Sindar

Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor





Chapter 4 and 5: Men. Characters, and the Houses of Men are introduced, the continuing drama of the Noldor is developped.

Of Men

Of the Return of the Noldor

Of Beleriand and its Realms

Of the Noldor in Beleriand

Of Maeglin

Of the Coming of Men into the West




From then on, the stories are more concrete and movie friendly, as well as character driven.

Chapter 6: Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin
Chapters 7 and 8: Of Beren and Luthien
Chapter 9: Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad
Chapters 10 and 11: Of Turin Turambar
Chapter 12: Of the Ruin of Doriath (This one is a tricky one, but I believe it justifies its own chapter, because Thingol and Melian are an important part opf many of the prior stories)
Chapters 13 and 14: Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin
Chapters 15 and 16: Of the Voyage of Earendil and the War of Wrath
Chapters 17, 18 and 19: Akallabeth (3 chapters to allow full devellopment of Númenor, using chapter 19 to show the creation of the Gondor and Arnor, the planting of the White Tree, etc.)
Chapter 20:Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age (This should be consistent with the movies within the possibilities of the time, it is an effective closure to a 20 chapter series.)

This is assuming each chapter is 1 hour long. So there, that's my proposal, what do you think?



So there, what do you think? This is my best approach yet.


Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!

(This post was edited by Compa_Mighty on Nov 26 2009, 10:55pm)


xy
Rohan

Nov 27 2009, 10:52am

Post #4 of 20 (344 views)
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Interesting take on Silmarillion there [In reply to] Can't Post

Personally, I would strip down the intro (creation of the world, Valar, creation of Men/Eleves/Dwarves and the rebellion of Melkor etc) to a prologue, like the one used in LOTR ... like a pilot episode in a TV series maybe. 2 hours at episode enough ?

PART I

Then in Chapter one, we go into the making of Silmarils, Melkor theft and the cliffhanger ending with Feanor's rebellion and Elves entering Middle Earth.

Chapter two, Elves encounter Men and Dwarves and establish their realms, first battles with Melkor. Feanor dies, and wows for his family forever hunting the Silmarils.

Chapter three, Beren and Luthien retrieve the Silmaril from Morgoth (Sauron cameo). Tuor's story.

Chapter four, ruin of Gondolin, Earendil gets help and Melkor gets defeated. Earendil's children can choose whether they belong to Numenor or the Elves.

PART II

Chapter five, three houses of Men receive the gift of Numenor; Sauron rises in Middle earth.

Chapter six, Sauron gets "caught" and deceives the king of Numenor.

Chapter seven, Numenor wages war with the Valar. Destruction of Numenor, Sauron dissapears and the surviving Numenoreans establish Arnor and Gondor.

Chapter eight, Sauron returns quietly, forges the Rings. Destruction of Eregion. Sauron distributes the Rings, enter Nazgul. The battle of Last alliance and dissapearance of the Ring.


MrCere
Sr. Staff


Nov 28 2009, 1:30am

Post #5 of 20 (315 views)
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You are wise [In reply to] Can't Post

A long series adaptation would be the only way to do the collection of tales real justice. It will not happen in our lives, but I like the idea.

Maybe we should do a rip-off, like "Willow" but for the Sil. (kidding!)

I have no choice but to believe in free will.

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie

My blog




Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Nov 28 2009, 1:47am

Post #6 of 20 (313 views)
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Yes, too bad it won't happen anytime soon... [In reply to] Can't Post

I found your last comment interesting... Willow rips off what story?

We could always do The Filmarillion Wink

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!


Isis
Bree


Nov 28 2009, 1:01pm

Post #7 of 20 (294 views)
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Oooh [In reply to] Can't Post

As we tend to say these days, 'Only a HBO series could do it justice'*

I'm incredibly short of time at the moment, but I'm bookmarking your post for reading as soon as I get my life back again. :)


*I'm eagerly awaiting HBO's vision of GRRM's AGOT

'Take now this Ring,' he said; 'for thy labours and thy cares will be heavy, but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill.'


almas_sparks
Rohan

Nov 28 2009, 3:31pm

Post #8 of 20 (331 views)
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Don`t think this would work as separate stories [In reply to] Can't Post

But as the story about Sauron, that aslo deals with some famous moments such as Beren&Luthien, that could work very well, IMO, because:

a) he ties together LOTR, The Hobbit and "prequel universe" (Sil, Unfinished Tales, HoME),

b) this is how you do a prequel about how the bad guy got this way. No Yippee brat or teenage brat crap...you know what I mean,

c) he is super-cool character and a total bad-a**,

d) Melkor is amazing villain

e) if romance is needed, there`s at least one character who can easily serve as his love interest without changing the flow of history ( Thuringwethil who everyone suspects was Sauron`s girlfriend anyway and we don`t know what he did in the years when he repented and was lying low) and, of course, B&L romance is a big part of Sauron`s temporary fall

f) imagine the spectacle

g) trilogies or series of movies that are tied together by either the same lead (James Bond) or characters and story that goes on (LOTR, HP, SW,etc) are more commercial than sperate stories about the same universe (because there`s less emotional investment in,lets say, Middle earth than particular character)

Just my two cents. However, doesn`t C.Tolkien hold the rights to Sil and won`t allow any movie/TV adaptation?


squire
Valinor


Nov 28 2009, 5:13pm

Post #9 of 20 (308 views)
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Good points [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that The Silmarillion, as a relatively loosely linked set of stories about different characters, would have a hard time holding an "uninitiated" audience's interest, unless each episode was highly dramatized. Unfortunately, that would require a considerable amount of freedom on the writers' part, which kind of ruins the whole point.

I do want to hear more about Sauron's girlfriend, Thuringwethil. What were their dates like? Did they have unbearably cute little pet names for each other? And what about the little kiddies: more bat or more cat?

Imagine the spectacle, indeed.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Nov 28 2009, 5:36pm

Post #10 of 20 (312 views)
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*hiz grrlfrnd* he calls her, but she pwns him not // [In reply to] Can't Post



Annael
Half-elven


Nov 29 2009, 3:29am

Post #11 of 20 (268 views)
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I can't help but think [In reply to] Can't Post

of this great film moment.

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


tennie75
Lorien


Nov 29 2009, 3:37am

Post #12 of 20 (303 views)
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Just watched so-called "Legend of the Seeker" [In reply to] Can't Post

shudder - it's an OK sword and sorcery show, but The Sword of Truth it ain't. Please don't allow those writers/producers anywhere near our mythical Sil adaptation!

PS filmed in Middle Earth/New Zealand - I believe. But they sure don't take advantage of the scenery the way we all know they could.

******************************************
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.

(This post was edited by tennie75 on Nov 29 2009, 3:38am)


Eldorion
Rohan


Nov 29 2009, 3:48am

Post #13 of 20 (296 views)
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I think this is extremely important [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I agree that The Silmarillion, as a relatively loosely linked set of stories about different characters, would have a hard time holding an "uninitiated" audience's interest, unless each episode was highly dramatized. Unfortunately, that would require a considerable amount of freedom on the writers' part, which kind of ruins the whole point.


If someone were to try to make an adaptation of The Silmarillion it would make sense that they would try to stick to the story of the Silm. Unfortunately the Silm., as you point out, does not really have a story. It has a few overarching themes and ideas and that's about it. It's as if somebody tried to take the entire body of Greek mythology from birth of the Titans to the Trojan War, along with all or most of the myths in between, and make into a movie. It just wouldn't work, not even as a TV show. TV shows need to have more consistency, especially with characters, than the Silm. provides. It's just an outline of a vast mythology, not a story in the normal sense of the word.

If someone were to try to to take this outline and make into a movie or TV show they would have to change so much in order for it to make sense that it would be very hard to call it the story of The Silmarillion. People talk(ed) about how LOTR was unfilmable; but while it was long and complex it was still a book telling a story (albeit a multi-faceted one). The Silm. is a book telling bits and pieces of many largely unrelated stories.

Even if a filmmaker were to take all these pieces, break them apart, and a make a long series of movies (one for each chapter or two, perhaps); so much fleshing out and development of the stories would be required that it would resemble fanfiction more than adaptation by the time they were done.

My cat takes after me:


Morthoron
Gondor


Nov 30 2009, 2:20am

Post #14 of 20 (253 views)
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If memory serves me correctly... [In reply to] Can't Post

Christopher Tolkien is listed as joint copyright holder of The Silmarillion; therefore, the book will not pass into public domain until 70 years or so after his death (different countries have different rules about public domain issues). So, unless you have the immortality of an Elf, you won't be seeing an adaptation of the Sil this century. Unless, of course, the remaining heirs of Tolkien are a bit...mmmm...more...pliable? A bit more greedy? Then, we shall have them -- bwa-ha-ha-ha!

""I was crazy back when being crazy really meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy." -- Charles Manson


the_argonath
Lorien


Nov 30 2009, 10:12pm

Post #15 of 20 (243 views)
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I like the idea of a CoH film ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

~*Haudh-en-Ndengin the Elves named it, the Hill of Slain, and Haugh-en-Nirnaeth, the Hill of tears... the earth beneath which the swords of the Eldar and the Edain crumbled into rust*~



Idril Celebrindal
Tol Eressea


Dec 1 2009, 3:04am

Post #16 of 20 (325 views)
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We go together like ramma lamma lamma ka dinga da dinga dong .... [In reply to] Can't Post

For some reason I'm visualizing Sauron as a 1950s greaser in a leather jacket (genuine Elf skin), with Thuringwethil in black twin set, bobby sox, saddle shoes and poodle skirt. (OK, so it would be a bat skirt instead of a poodle skirt, but still ...) Both singing "Hopelessly devoted to you...."

Paging John Travolta and Olivia Newton John ... !


With caffeine, all things are possible.

The pity of Bilbo will screw up the fate of many.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

(This post was edited by Idril Celebrindal on Dec 1 2009, 3:06am)


squire
Valinor


Dec 1 2009, 3:38am

Post #17 of 20 (270 views)
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Nix on the poodle skirt [In reply to] Can't Post



Thuringwethil is a bad girl, remember?




squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


Idril Celebrindal
Tol Eressea


Dec 1 2009, 5:01pm

Post #18 of 20 (257 views)
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That's just disturbing ... [In reply to] Can't Post

I like it!

Now I'll have the soundtrack to Grease ringing in my head every time I read that part of the Sil....


With caffeine, all things are possible.

The pity of Bilbo will screw up the fate of many.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


Gurtholfin
Bree

Dec 2 2009, 4:19am

Post #19 of 20 (254 views)
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Silm Too Much [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that only the three epic tales could be made into movies coz the rest is not fleshed out as much.

Beren & Luthien

Turin

Tuor(the Fall of Gondolin)

I think that these could be great if done by the right people and I wish that it would happen coz to me these are better stories than the Hobbit or the LOTR, but it will never happen.

Imagine the Fall of Gondolin battle scenes done by Jackson. Multiple Balrogs and dragons and the elves at the height of their splendor. How about the fight between Ecthelion and Gothmog? Or Glorfidel and the Balrog.

As an epilog they could even show the final battle with Earendil and Ancalagon.

They could also make a pretty cool movie out of the fall of Numenor.

Someone go beg the Tolkien Estate and Peter Jackson!


Adanedhel
Bree

Dec 4 2009, 6:18am

Post #20 of 20 (452 views)
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Jacksons elves would just fall over dead [In reply to] Can't Post

Just think of what he did to the elves at helms deep.


 
 

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