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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
You should go with Stanislaus' explanation over mine.

FarFromHome
Valinor


May 12 2007, 3:54pm


Views: 43
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You should go with Stanislaus' explanation over mine. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was just guessing, based on the few quotations I found. StanB obviously understands the topic in some depth.

I don't see how we can ever prove Barfield's proposition that the real and metaphorical meanings of a word were originally one and the same, or as StanB puts it, "originally darkness and ignorance, stain and sin are one thing, not two different similar things." But if this is a concept that Tolkien was familiar with (as he must have been since Barfield was an Inkling), then I think it's valid to consider that Tolkien may have been using this concept to create the ambiguity that we often notice in his world. Which would mean that you can't distinguish between "darkness" as a metaphor for ignorance, and physical darkness. The two are blended together inextricably.

...and the sails were drawn up, and the wind blew,
and slowly the ship slipped away down the long grey firth;
and the light of the glass of Galadriel that Frodo bore
glimmered and was lost.

Subject User Time
While we're talking about the First and Second Ages... Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 2 2007, 5:07pm
    It could have been literally dark. Curious Send a private message to Curious May 2 2007, 5:25pm
        It seems hard to imagine... Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 2 2007, 8:02pm
            Mirkwood is always dark. Curious Send a private message to Curious May 2 2007, 10:42pm
                Possibly at times... Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 3 2007, 5:49am
                    Consider what Treebeard said Curious Send a private message to Curious May 3 2007, 6:00am
    i think it's a metaphor... ringhead91 Send a private message to ringhead91 May 2 2007, 11:54pm
        re: WonderBroad Send a private message to WonderBroad May 3 2007, 2:33am
    What I'm hearing ... Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 3 2007, 6:06am
        Metaphorical at least, but that doesn't rule out Curious Send a private message to Curious May 3 2007, 3:23pm
    Some considerations... Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 3 2007, 11:01pm
        We don't know much about Greenwood in the Second Age. Curious Send a private message to Curious May 4 2007, 2:19am
            I'll buy that. Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 4 2007, 2:34am
    What was the first "Great Darkness"? squire Send a private message to squire May 4 2007, 4:16am
        Very impressive. But Curious Send a private message to Curious May 4 2007, 5:55am
            Inside a dog squire Send a private message to squire May 4 2007, 1:43pm
                Men may fear the darkness, yet still live in shadows and caves. Curious Send a private message to Curious May 4 2007, 2:27pm
                    The same rock is being pushed very hard... Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 5 2007, 9:58pm
                        Shadow Host? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand May 5 2007, 10:32pm
                            I just re-read "The Passing of the Grey Company"... Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 6 2007, 12:36am
                                It's used later, when Gimli and Legolas Curious Send a private message to Curious May 6 2007, 1:01am
                                    Thanks, C. Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 6 2007, 4:17am
                        Perhaps the real answer is far more simple. Silverlode Send a private message to Silverlode May 6 2007, 12:08am
                            Ah yes - that must be it!. Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 6 2007, 12:39am
                        What about the remnants of the Great Darkness? Curious Send a private message to Curious May 6 2007, 1:17am
                            It's evil! Don't touch it! / N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand May 6 2007, 2:31am
                                Mom? Dad? Curious Send a private message to Curious May 6 2007, 3:11am
                                    Your... N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand May 6 2007, 4:25am
                                        Ah! Got it./ Curious Send a private message to Curious May 6 2007, 10:42am
        Replying to: What was the first "Great Darkness"? Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. May 6 2007, 1:41pm
            Welcome to the new boards! N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand May 6 2007, 3:00pm
            Yes, welcome! Curious Send a private message to Curious May 6 2007, 4:49pm
            At this juncture, I can't abide... Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 7 2007, 3:06am
                Is _The Silmarillion_ Tolkien's "published work"? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand May 8 2007, 6:54pm
            Stan the Man! squire Send a private message to squire May 7 2007, 3:51am
                So what are we supposed to believe? FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome May 7 2007, 9:51am
                    Well, Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 8 2007, 1:08am
                        Well, no FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome May 8 2007, 8:15am
                            Well, sorry Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 8 2007, 6:34pm
                                Well my question wasn't so much metaphorical FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome May 9 2007, 7:55am
                                    Well put... Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 9 2007, 5:19pm
                                        Double meaning Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. May 9 2007, 6:38pm
                                            Thank you for this information on Barfield FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome May 10 2007, 7:00am
                                                To FFH and Stanaslaus: of the Inkling quote above... Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 10 2007, 8:02pm
                                                    I'm no expert in this field FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome May 10 2007, 9:35pm
                                                        Barfield's idea Stanislaus B. Send a private message to Stanislaus B. May 11 2007, 5:36pm
                                                            What I'm hearing is... Pallando Send a private message to Pallando May 11 2007, 7:44pm
                                                                You should go with Stanislaus' explanation over mine. FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome May 12 2007, 3:54pm
                Thanks for the cite! What I find interesting Curious Send a private message to Curious May 7 2007, 3:00pm

 
 
 

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