|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 24 2009, 4:05am
Post #1 of 25
(724 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The Return Journey V: On the road again
|
Can't Post
|
|
"Then they halted, for the wizard and Bilbo would not enter the wood, even though the king bade them stay a while in his halls. They intended to go along the edge of the forest, and round its northern end in the waste that lay between it and the beginning of the Grey Mountains. It was a long and cheerless road, but now that the goblins were crushed, it seemed safer to them than the dreadful pathways under the trees. Moreover Beorn was going that way too."
- What, not even set foot inside Mirkwood to stay for a night or two in the Elvenking's halls? Why not?
- The path through Mirkwood is protected from danger; why would they consider it "dreadful", and avoid it?
- Why would Beorn also avoid Mirkwood; couldn't he have travelled that way as the fastest route to the battle?
"He had many hardships and adventures before he got back. The Wild was still the Wild, and there were many other things in it in those days besides goblins; but he was well guided and well guarded - the wizard was with him, and Beorn for much of the way - and he was never in great danger again."
- What kinds of "hardships and adventures" can you imagiine Bilbo and his travelling companions having?
"Yule-tide was warm and merry there; and men came from far and wide to feast at Beorn's bidding."
- What would a winter feast be like in the dwelling of vegetarian Beorn?
This time, Bilbo and Gandalf travel up the path they should have come down by months earlier, and reach the high pass.
"There far away was the Lonely Mountain on the edge of eyesight. On its highest peak snow yet unmelted was gleaming pale."
- On the journey out, it was a dark and stormy night. Had they reached that point on a clear day, would there have been some reaction by the Dwarves, or Bilbo, upon catching that glimpse of the Mountain?
- How high could the Mountain be, for snow to be on it at this time of year?
"So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their ending." As do chapters! Thank you all for participating or lurking this week, and feel free to add any comments or questions of your own!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
Twit
Lorien
Jul 24 2009, 1:42pm
Post #2 of 25
(584 views)
Shortcut
|
- What, not even set foot inside Mirkwood to stay for a night or two in the Elvenking's halls? Why not?
If we assume that the spiders do indeed eat even Elves at times, would you go in there? I think that the dark grimness of Mirkwood is enough to put anyone off although maybe you don't notice it so much if you live there. I would like to think it has more to do with them wanting to see a bit more of Beorn.
Was this a part of the book that was altered after LotR? Maybe Gandalf wants to keep the (not) Ring away from Thranduil. Out of interest when was Gollum imprisoned there?
- The path through Mirkwood is protected from danger; why would they consider it "dreadful", and avoid it?
Because as we have already noted, it is A Nasty Horrible Place.
- Why would Beorn also avoid Mirkwood; couldn't he have travelled that way as the fastest route to the battle?
I find it acceptable that perhaps Beorn and the Elves do not mix socially, and I don't think he likes the way the forest has been manipulated by evil being of nature himself. I suspect the Elves would view him rather as they did/do the dwarves and Men.
- What kinds of "hardships and adventures" can you imagiine Bilbo and his travelling companions having?
Being attacked by Bad Things, the weather. I actually feel cheated at this point of the book. It feels as if Tolkien along with Bilbo can't be bothered to tell us what happened as they are eager to get back to Bag End and finish the story. Although thinking on it, I'm inclined to think that this is how we all feel when we go somewhere, going there and being there is more exciting than going home and getting back.
- What would a winter feast be like in the dwelling of vegetarian Beorn?
Lots of mead, food, singing and a few rows.
Perhaps he serves up a roast for his guests, there doesn't seem to be any mention of fond feelings towards chickens, so maybe he wouldn't have minded that meat being brought. I don't think that back in the day many children would have imagined a 'winter feast' without plenty of everything including meat, they would associate this feast with Christmas.
- On the journey out, it was a dark and stormy night. Had they reached that point on a clear day, would there have been some reaction by the Dwarves, or Bilbo, upon catching that glimpse of the Mountain?
- How high could the Mountain be, for snow to be on it at this time of year?
I'm lost again, what time of year is it? Ah yes, Spring. Not so impossible for there to still be snow on a mountain really, would it perhaps be starting to melt?
The weather is a good indicator of mood and what might be going to happen in alot of books. The fact that it was a dark stormy night says there will be dark stormy times ahead.
"So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their ending." As do chapters! Thank you all for participating or lurking this week, and feel free to add any comments or questions of your own!
No, thank you it has been fun.
|
|
|
Curious
Half-elven
Jul 25 2009, 6:05am
Post #3 of 25
(554 views)
Shortcut
|
- What, not even set foot inside Mirkwood to stay for a night or two in the Elvenking's halls? Why not?
Perhaps Bilbo can sense that someone is getting ready to auction his property.
- The path through Mirkwood is protected from danger; why would they consider it "dreadful", and avoid it?
No food or water, creepy in the extreme, and the northern path is open now that the goblins have been slaughtered.
- Why would Beorn also avoid Mirkwood; couldn't he have travelled that way as the fastest route to the battle?
He can travel the northern route without carrying his own food and water. I suspect that's what he did on the way to the Lonely Mountain, since the goblins were distracted and he would have welcomed a confrontation if it had happened.
- What kinds of "hardships and adventures" can you imagine Bilbo and his travelling companions having?
Since he was never in great danger, I suppose we are talking about storms, uncomfortable sleeping arrangements, lack of hot meals, and that sort of thing. Maybe they even got attacked, but Beorn easily dealt with it.
- What would a winter feast be like in the dwelling of vegetarian Beorn?
He makes a mean tofu turkey. Or how about Lasagna, Ratatouille, Spanakopita, and veggie meatloaf? Better yet, considering hobbit tastes, how about a variety of mushrooms? And nuts? And those are just the main dishes -- the side dishes are easy.
- On the journey out, it was a dark and stormy night. Had they reached that point on a clear day, would there have been some reaction by the Dwarves, or Bilbo, upon catching that glimpse of the Mountain?
Yes. It's a long way away.
- How high could the Mountain be, for snow to be on it at this time of year?
It's pretty far north, and not near a warm ocean current, so it could be much colder than the Shire without being particularly high. And since this time of year is late winter / early spring, well, that's peak snow season.
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 26 2009, 2:01am
Post #4 of 25
(516 views)
Shortcut
|
that we don't get to see those "adventures" on the way back to Beorn's! But you're right, this is Bilbo's story, and he just wants to get home now.
You do come up with intriguing ideas! It would have to be a UUT, though, for Gandalf's motive to be keeping this strange Ring away from the Elvenking, as at that point it was simply one of many "magic rings".
Very early in the plot notes, when Gandalf was still called "Bladorthin", Tolkien briefly considered having the Elvenking escort him and Bilbo back through Mirkwood; but then he crossed that out.
Bilbo's journey occurred in 2941, and Aragorn brought Gollum to the Mirkwood Elves in 3017 - quite far in the future!
Roast chicken...hmm...come to think of it, his dogs would not be vegetarians, would they! And they might enjoy an occasional "meat on the bone"!
Ah, dark and stormy, the foreboding of evil times ahead - no seeing the Mountain and saying "We'll be there soon!", the worst is yet to come! Tolkien does do nice set-ups, doesn't he! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 26 2009, 2:12am
Post #5 of 25
(511 views)
Shortcut
|
Posting at two of the clock in the morning? Ah, Curious, I'm afraid that some sleepiness shows in your responses! 
"Perhaps Bilbo can sense that someone is getting ready to auction his property": and probably not, since he will spend quite a long time at Beorn's.
"...and the northern path is open now that the goblins have been slaughtered." I'm a bit confused by this part of your statement, but you are quite right that food and water are severely limited, and that alone would make re-passing through Mirkwood not pleasant at all!
"Maybe they even got attacked, but Beorn easily dealt with it." Yes, no more bumbling Dwarves to get themselves into an even bigger mess: one swipe of Beorn's paw, and Bilbo would have another fur-blanket.
Yuletide at Beorn's: "He makes a mean tofu turkey." Hey, a bit of Darkstonian humor - thanks!
Good point about late Winter/early Spring being "peak snow season". You can tell that I'm not a skier, nor live near tall mountains! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jul 26 2009, 3:16am
Post #6 of 25
(573 views)
Shortcut
|
who opposed entering the wood the most. I don't Gandalf would have worried about it. I'm of a mind he returned from the Council meeting with Thranduil and came to his halls where they both heard about Smaug's death. Thranduil had to arrange his army for travel, but Gandalf could have left right away and come to the area quicker.
Thranduil must have assured them all that this trip to his halls would be pleasant and they'd be treated to the best mead ;)
Beorn lives near the wood and refused to let his horses enter (for obvious reasons) and didn't reveal if he's ever entered it himself. He was hugely territorial of his own lands, and maybe honoured the same for others.
I'm thinking it was probably Bilbo who hesitated to enter the wood. His memory of it wasn't the best, and I think he didn't want to enter it again. He knew what it was like, and loathed going through it again even with Beorn and Gandalf and a possible escort of Elves. Maybe his heart couldn't take all the memories it would stir up of Thorin, Fili, Kili and the others. He is a fiercely loyal friend, and he's still in mourning and ptsd from his experience with Smaug, the battle, and the loss... not to mentioned horribly homesick.
Hardships besides goblins? Maybe bats? or vampires ;) or more Trolls. Of course, it could be just travelling in the Wild lands could be the hardship. Raging rivers, gorges, swamps... maybe more neeker breekers!
Most excellent journey through this chapter, dernwyn!! A+++++ and Thanks Ooodles :D
"There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West."
~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.
TORn's Observations Lists
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 26 2009, 12:31pm
Post #7 of 25
(569 views)
Shortcut
|
been a guest before in the Halls of the Elvenking: "The oftener you appear in my halls the better shall I be pleased". And a most welcome guest!
Good point about Beorn not letting his ponies enter Mirkwood; if he feels so strongly about it, then he would not even want to enter it from the eastern end to go to the Elves' home. So if he's going around the forest, and if it's going to be getting on towards Winter, and his home would make an excellent place to stay since the Misty Mountains are too dangerous to travel in the Winter weather, then Gandalf and Bilbo had best go with him!
Bilbo and PTSD! Even though his cheerful Hobbit exterior might not necessarily show it, he's gone through a lot of grief and terror.
Neeker breekers! Nooo! Actually, I shouldn't laugh about those insects - they make a journey perfectly miserable.
A "journey" through the "Journey"! You're welcome, gramma!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
One Ringer
Tol Eressea
Jul 26 2009, 1:47pm
Post #8 of 25
(511 views)
Shortcut
|
|
As much as I hate it, I love the Return Journey ...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
It's always a downer when any great story comes to an end, but somehow it's always fun to read the journey home, revisiting familiar places, almost reliving the adventure. I remember the first time I read this chapter how much I loved it, the way they took note on every little thing they came across that they encountered on their journey. Almost nostalgic, or reminiscent to the point that you realise how much you have actually experienced from just reading the book. A perfect ending, but what's better is there's still another chapter.
|
|
|
sador
Half-elven
Jul 26 2009, 3:57pm
Post #9 of 25
(520 views)
Shortcut
|
What, not even set foot inside Mirkwood to stay for a night or two in the Elvenking's halls? Why not?
And have Bilbo confront Galion and his drinking-friend?  No thank you!
But more sriously - they wanted Beorn's company.
The path through Mirkwood is protected from danger; why would they consider it "dreadful", and avoid it?
There still are the spiders, aren't there?
But it's interesting that Gandalf also considers it dreadful.
Why would Beorn also avoid Mirkwood; couldn't he have travelled that way as the fastest route to the battle?
Well, in 'A Warm Welcome' we are told his knowledge of Mirkwood was faulty, weren't we? And even in 'Queer Lodgings' he said he didn't know the place well enough.
Also, he could be going around to summon the Men all around the region to his feast.
Some time ago, I suggested a UUT about Beorn's taking the roundabout way.
What kinds of "hardships and adventures" can you imagiine Bilbo and his travelling companions having?
Probably of the nasty unpleasant kind, which make you later for dinner.
What would a winter feast be like in the dwelling of vegetarian Beorn?
Very disappointing, of course.
Had they reached that point on a clear day, would there have been some reaction by the Dwarves, or Bilbo, upon catching that glimpse of the Mountain?
Probably; which could be the reason Tolkien prefered to make it a dark and stormy night.
How high could the Mountain be, for snow to be on it at this time of year?
I leave this question to those better qualified to answer it.
"So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their ending." As do chapters! Thank you all for participating or lurking this week, and feel free to add any comments or questions of your own!
Thank you! It was a fun discussion.
"We will honour the agreement of the dead." - Dain.
|
|
|
FarFromHome
Valinor
Jul 26 2009, 6:47pm
Post #10 of 25
(512 views)
Shortcut
|
that Beorn is a vegetarian? Just because we're only told about the bread and honey doesn't necessarily mean that's all Beorn ever eats. In fact, the first meal at Beorn's house was "supper, or a dinner, such as they had not had since they left the Last Homely House". Could that really have been only bread and butter and honey? The next night, we hear about Gandalf's feat of putting away two loaves and lots of honey and cream, after being out without food all day - but again, we're not told if that was all the food there was. Tolkien's young readers would have known about bears' love of honey, of course, from Winnie the Pooh, but real bears are omnivores, and will kill and eat animals and fish, as well as seeking out honey and berries. Whether or not Beorn offered meat on the first visit, I don't see why he mightn't on the return. He's certainly fierce enough to be a hunter, and maybe occasionally one of those red deer ended up on Beorn's table...
Besides, it's hard to imagine Beorn hosting Yule-tide feasting for "men...from far and wide", and offering nothing but bread and honey at every meal!
They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled, the sigh and murmur of the Sea
upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
(This post was edited by FarFromHome on Jul 26 2009, 6:54pm)
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 26 2009, 7:26pm
Post #11 of 25
(522 views)
Shortcut
|
That's a great word to use in describing the journey back: we're allowed to re-visit specific places, and thus we remember what occurred on the journey "there".
Yes, one more chapter to go - but only one! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 26 2009, 7:33pm
Post #12 of 25
(502 views)
Shortcut
|
description from Mr. Tolkien would have been appreciated!
As Twit pointed out, he probably had chickens for food, and I realized that some of his animals, such as his dogs, would need meat in their diet. Curious listed some great non-meat dishes (although I'm doubtful that Middle-earth, especially in Tolkien's mind, would have had tofu ).
Adding fish to the menu would not be improbable, either! So although Beorn might have frowned upon having, say, deer or cow meat, or the meat of any animal close in bearing to his own, there could be plenty of fish, chicken, turkey, maybe even pork.
I wonder what Warg tastes like? Probably too tough and stringy...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 26 2009, 7:43pm
Post #13 of 25
(499 views)
Shortcut
|
never "met" Bilbo! Still, I could understand the Elf's embarrassment and the Hobbit's uncomfortableness with that situation.
After the other responses here, it's looking like the lack of food and water in Mirkwood is one of the biggest problems. The Spiders keep away from the Path, which is enchanted. But after thinking about it, I've also realized: how in the world would they ever get across the Enchanted Stream?
I like that UUT about Beorn using his homeward path as a means to gather the settlers together!
Homeward hardships: "Probably of the nasty unpleasant kind, which make you later for dinner"! And no doubt the kind Bilbo first envisioned when he started on this Quest.
See FFH's post for "Yule at Beorn's - The Expanded Version". I think we're tending to agree that there was more than just bread and honey at his house!
Someone better qualified to answer the Mountain question...hmm...where's Beren IV?
(I'm still waiting for squire to come along with the BotR arm-in-sling quote!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
FarFromHome
Valinor
Jul 26 2009, 7:52pm
Post #14 of 25
(584 views)
Shortcut
|
why not cow meat? Beorn must have dairy cows for his milk, butter and cream. And dairy herds produce male calves whose only real value is as veal....
But it's a fairytale, after all, so maybe not!
Thanks for a fun week, dernwyn. I didn't have time to answer all your questions, but I enjoyed reading everything!
They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled, the sigh and murmur of the Sea
upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
(This post was edited by FarFromHome on Jul 26 2009, 7:54pm)
|
|
|
N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jul 27 2009, 5:11am
Post #15 of 25
(496 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Note that if they had crossed the pass in good weather
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
...back in "Over Hill and Under Hill", Bilbo would have first glimpsed the Lonely Mountain much earlier in the story.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Hobbit in the Reading Room, Mar. 23 - Aug. 9. Everyone is welcome!
Join us July 20-26 for "The Return Journey".
And sign up for The Silmarillion!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.
|
|
|
sador
Half-elven
Jul 27 2009, 5:54am
Post #16 of 25
(516 views)
Shortcut
|
Probably; which could be the reason Tolkien prefered to make it a dark and stormy night.
But is this visibility probable? How far is the Mountain, and how good need Bilbo's eyes be to see it?
Aragorn couldn't see Gwaihir at a great height; but that is far less a distance! Are Bilbo's eyes better than Aragorn?
And considering Bilbo's eyes being keener than the dwarves (as when he sees the boat on the Enchanted River) - would the be able to see the Mountain from such a distance?
"Then the prophecies of the old songs have turned out to be ture, after a fashion!" - Bilbo.
|
|
|
Twit
Lorien
Jul 27 2009, 9:44am
Post #17 of 25
(488 views)
Shortcut
|
'Besides, it's hard to imagine Beorn hosting Yule-tide feasting for "men...from far and wide", and offering nothing but bread and honey at every meal!'
And with people coming from far and wide, wouldn't they have brought food with them? If we are to see the winter feast as being similar to christmas, there must be plenty of everything including meat. (Besides wasn't being a vegetarian a bit 'odd' in those days?)
|
|
|
N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jul 27 2009, 1:06pm
Post #18 of 25
(488 views)
Shortcut
|
And dernwyn even asked about that point specifically -- ugh, I should have done better than just skim this thread before responding. Sorry.
But is this visibility probable? How far is the Mountain, and how good need Bilbo's eyes be to see it?
This page gives reports of mountains being glimpsed from many hundreds of miles away, under the right conditions, so it may just be possible.
Aragorn couldn't see Gwaihir at a great height; but that is far less a distance! Are Bilbo's eyes better than Aragorn?
Gwaihir is much smaller than Erebor.
And considering Bilbo's eyes being keener than the dwarves (as when he sees the boat on the Enchanted River) -- would they be able to see the Mountain from such a distance?
Good point! If the dwarves hadn't been able to identify the mountain for Bilbo, it might have been just a dot on the horizon.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Hobbit in the Reading Room, Mar. 23 - Aug. 9. Everyone is welcome!
Join us July 20-26 for "The Return Journey".
And sign up for The Silmarillion!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.
|
|
|
Dreamdeer
Valinor
Jul 28 2009, 7:29pm
Post #19 of 25
(479 views)
Shortcut
|
I think as much as practical considerations like food and water, the idea of spending more days on end in unrelieved darkness and stuffy air would deter any traveler who didn't want to endure it unnecessarily.
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
|
|
|
Dreamdeer
Valinor
Jul 29 2009, 5:04am
Post #20 of 25
(513 views)
Shortcut
|
...most delightfully hosting this chapter for us! May your toes grow ever woolly and may your shadow never fade!
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jul 29 2009, 10:37am
Post #21 of 25
(478 views)
Shortcut
|
Thank you..in New England, woolly toes are definitely and advantage!
(And no problem with my shadow ever fading... )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
Desicon9
Bree
Aug 3 2009, 3:12pm
Post #22 of 25
(500 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Story Finished, Let's go home.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
"Then they halted, for the wizard and Bilbo would not enter the wood, even though the king bade them stay a while in his halls. They intended to go along the edge of the forest, and round its northern end in the waste that lay between it and the beginning of the Grey Mountains. It was a long and cheerless road, but now that the goblins were crushed, it seemed safer to them than the dreadful pathways under the trees. Moreover Beorn was going that way too."
- What, not even set foot inside Mirkwood to stay for a night or two in the Elvenking's halls? Why not?
- The path through Mirkwood is protected from danger; why would they consider it "dreadful", and avoid it?
- Why would Beorn also avoid Mirkwood; couldn't he have travelled that way as the fastest route to the battle?
_____________________________________
This is intriguing, I can understand the northern trek around Mirkwood if JRRT had developed some new adventures for Bilbo up there, or if he had given us (at least) a fuller geographic description of the land that lay between the forest and the Grey Mountains, but we have very little narrative at all here, just the hint that there were "many hardships and adventures before he got back." Apparently, at this point in the narrative, JRRT considered Bilbo's tale of personal development (with the exception of his "auction adventures," the recovery of his property, and his new status as a "strange character" in The Shire) to be complete by the time he started home. All further "adventures" would simply be redundant, and might actually dilute the message Tolkien was trying to illustrate concerning the formation of a "new" Bilbo. Mr. B. Baggins, after The Battle of Five Armies and his reconciliation with Thorin, undergoes no significant personality alterations, or character additions -- so why recount the "pointless," minor scrapes that were incidental to his Shirebound return?
But, as Derwyn suggests, it might still be fun to have a detailed record of the adventures that did occur on the "anti-climatic" return trek.
Why avoid Mirkwood? At the time of the publication of The Hobbit, 1937-38, Gandalf was not yet seen as a Maia, an Istari with considerable powers, he was a more commonplace Mortal Man type wizard, quite vulnerable himself -- the long, dark, suffocating, and unnecessary journey through Mirkwood might well intimidate him. Likewise, was Beorn all that invincible? We have no actual statement from JRRT telling us that Beorn ever used the Elves' old forest path, not even as a short cut to the battle* -- it could be that he too felt intimidated by its ugly course. In a way, this makes the accomplishment of Bilbo and the Dwarves all the more remarkable, they (but only with the assistance of Bilbo's "Lucky Ring") did get through, just barely...
A return trek through Mirkwood would also require dragging along lots of water/ food and then a boat, or the tools to make one -- unless Beorn could leap the stream carrying Bilbo and Gandalf? Could he also leap the stream with their horses/ ponies?** LOL! Would the ponies they rode home have fared well in the forest? Would the ponies have entered the forest at all? No forage for them -- horses do not do well on leafy browse, so lots of fodder must also be carried, and horses require a good deal of clean fresh water daily. An enormous cavalcade, possibly with wagons of water and hay/ oats would be required to cross the forest with ponies.
_________________
* Attempts have been made to figure a "bear's speed daily average" to see if Beorn had the time to join The Battle of Five Armies via a northern, circum-sylvan path, but I don't think JRRT ever considered this detail himself, Beorn simply appears when needed in the story. It is not until LOTR, I believe, that JRRT plotted a daily advance of his characters over the Middle-earth terrain, paying attention to likely distances they could reasonably cover. In The Hobbit, daily marches are more generally sketched-in, nothing unreasonable, but not minutely plotted?
** Gandalf and Bilbo "rode" into Rivendell from the east on their trek homeward. I assume these were horses/ ponies they acquired at Erebor, certainly Beorn would not have loaned them his precious ponies for so long a journey with no hope of recovering them. On pony-back, Bilbo could be expected to keep up with Beorn's pace, as Bear or Man, I should think, so the longer but safer journey around Mirkwood makes more sense. (see Hobbit, p. 308, hardback version, First paragraph of chapter XIX.)
|
|
|
dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Aug 3 2009, 4:52pm
Post #23 of 25
(454 views)
Shortcut
|
|
You picked up on another point!
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
You're quite right, ponies - or horses - would not be able to traverse the dark, narrow path of Mirkwood, due to food and water needs, and simple fright!
And on horseback (or ponyback), instead of walking, the long trip around would be more bearable (no pun intended, really!).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
|
|
|
sador
Half-elven
Aug 10 2009, 7:26am
Post #25 of 25
(487 views)
Shortcut
|
|
`But the fading is slow in TORn,' said sador.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
`The power of the Lady is on it. Rich are the hours, though short they seem, in the Reading Room, where N.E. Brigand organises the discussions.'
Thanks a lot for this brief tour of The Hobbit, and for all your amazing work!
"You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you" - Gandalf.
|
|
|
|
|
