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Curious
Half-elven


Jul 12 2009, 1:12pm

Post #26 of 29 (313 views)
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Maybe you are right. For me, though, LotR defines eucatastrophe, and [In reply to] Can't Post

by that measure, it is much more than just a plot twist -- it is the world upended, from the worst of the worst to the best of the best. That kind of eucatastrophe is rare, but it is shared by LotR and the Gospels.


squire
Half-elven


Jul 12 2009, 3:18pm

Post #27 of 29 (313 views)
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Which is to say [In reply to] Can't Post

The Lord of the Rings is no mere fairy tale, as you have so often argued. And Tolkien invented the term 'eucatastrophe', so it's not surprising that you most closely associate it with his great work and with the good Book that was never far from his thoughts.

But I believe his original argument is that the "happy ending" is far more than just a plot twist, but has always been reduced to that by critics who despise fantasy and the role it plays in our lives - and thus it is proper to apply such an elevated 20-dollar word to Cinderella as much as to world-shaking morality tales like LotR.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


Curious
Half-elven


Jul 12 2009, 4:58pm

Post #28 of 29 (303 views)
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Fair enough.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Gatehammer
The Shire

Jul 25 2009, 9:40pm

Post #29 of 29 (328 views)
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the seamless Web of Story [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a very interesting thread. I am reminded that with regard to happy endings, Tolkien was under no delusion that fairy stories actually had happy endings. As he noted in his essay on them, the verbal ending: “they lived happily ever after” is an artificial device. It does not deceive anybody. End phrases of this kind are to be compared to the margins and frames of pictures, and are no more to be thought of as the real end of any particular fragment of the seamless Web of Story than the casement of the Outer World
This is slightly summarised from around pages 160 – 161 of my copy of “The Monster and the Critics”

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