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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
Well, we're saying two interesting variations of the same thing,

mae govannen
Gondor

Apr 17 2007, 12:04pm


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Well, we're saying two interesting variations of the same thing, [In reply to] Can't Post

almost even with the same words, if you check my own answer to Darkstone, just above your own! Amusing. We don't always agree, but here it is total agreement! Smile

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)

Subject User Time
*WISE Passage of the Day* No. 3 - The Pity of Bilbo Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 10 2007, 5:12pm
    Pity can be seen as condescending, however. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 10 2007, 6:41pm
        Well... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 10 2007, 7:01pm
            Responsibility and redemption. Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 10 2007, 8:59pm
                I have to disagree FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 10 2007, 9:13pm
                    Wow! A bit harsh on Gandalf, no? Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 10 2007, 9:33pm
                        Well, yes FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 10 2007, 10:18pm
                            How about humble himself? Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 10 2007, 11:08pm
                                I quite agree with you here... mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 13 2007, 8:56am
                            I don't think that it is huiliation Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Apr 11 2007, 6:38am
                                Your point is excellent Ugly Troll Send a private message to Ugly Troll Apr 12 2007, 1:17am
                                    There is no such thing as instant quick fixes Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Apr 12 2007, 3:44am
                        But didn't Gandalf take the others grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Apr 12 2007, 4:51pm
                            Exactly. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 12 2007, 5:26pm
                                And Beregond. grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Apr 12 2007, 6:44pm
                    When the person's problem is primarily pride, mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 13 2007, 11:12am
                True Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 10 2007, 9:22pm
                    And sometimes it is beyond any earthly power / Daughter of Nienna Send a private message to Daughter of Nienna Apr 11 2007, 6:40am
                Quite right; said something similar just now myself, mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 13 2007, 11:33am
            There is some redemption in Tolkien's world. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 10 2007, 9:20pm
                But... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 10 2007, 9:26pm
                    Not every redemption Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 10 2007, 9:43pm
                        But... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 10 2007, 9:48pm
                            As I said above, Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 10 2007, 10:11pm
                            What about Gollum?! ? mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 11 2007, 7:49am
                                Gollum was never redeemed. Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 11 2007, 1:14pm
                                    Well, it would seem Tolkien had a more nuanced opinion; mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 11 2007, 2:18pm
                                Well.... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 11 2007, 2:26pm
            The pity or mercy that's given grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Apr 12 2007, 4:40pm
                Well... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 13 2007, 5:58pm
                    How is that?... Please elaborate, mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 14 2007, 7:26am
                        Clarification? Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 16 2007, 1:35pm
                            Please re-read carefully what I said mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 17 2007, 11:31am
                    "... willing to offer... " grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Apr 14 2007, 8:58am
        A brief reply Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 10 2007, 8:53pm
            The Professor knew his words. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 10 2007, 10:42pm
            You should get some perspective before you dismiss this concept a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Apr 11 2007, 12:26am
                See, that's the problem with the Primary World. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 11 2007, 12:50am
                    C'me on, in M-e too, 'not all kings and counsellors are wise father figures'!... And even nowadays, mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 11 2007, 10:20am
                        I'm afraid Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 11 2007, 11:43am
                            In your quotes, Tolkien speaks of the Hobbits as a species with visible physical differences: mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 11 2007, 1:21pm
                            Tolkien's characters FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 11 2007, 4:07pm
                                I'll agree with "idealized." Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 11 2007, 5:26pm
                    "aroused by the misfortune of another" a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Apr 11 2007, 11:18am
                Ithink we're havaing a semantics issue here. Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 11 2007, 1:31pm
                    no it's not a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Apr 11 2007, 3:29pm
                        I take it then, . . . Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 11 2007, 3:50pm
                            I have already indicated a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Apr 11 2007, 4:18pm
                                I never implied that . . . Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 11 2007, 4:38pm
                                    *readies bucket of water* Ataahua Send a private message to Ataahua Apr 11 2007, 8:50pm
                Interesting post, a.s. N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Apr 11 2007, 7:53pm
        Perhaps that's why movie-Frodo's pity FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 10 2007, 8:55pm
            And it is a significant departure from the book. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 10 2007, 10:06pm
                That's true FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 10 2007, 10:30pm
                    Are heroes unreal? Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 10 2007, 11:38pm
                        That's an interesting question! FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 11 2007, 6:41am
                            Tolkien 'telling only one part of the story of the "real world"'?!? mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 12 2007, 9:15am
                                You're misunderstanding my point, I think FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 12 2007, 9:38am
                                    Sorry if I did, and thank you for the clarification! :-) / mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 13 2007, 11:45am
                                I think Darkstone is on your side. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 12 2007, 3:12pm
                    'Mythic heroes'??? ''Tolkien edited out...'??? What are we talking about?!? mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 11 2007, 8:40am
                        where is Aragorn "flawed to start with"? a.s. Send a private message to a.s. Apr 11 2007, 11:36am
                            I agree with mae govannen Ainu Laire Send a private message to Ainu Laire Apr 11 2007, 11:16pm
                                Wonderful: you have written for me the post I needed to write !!! :-) mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 12 2007, 7:28am
                                But needing and accepting help isn't a flaw FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 12 2007, 8:58am
            Where does book-Frodo show 'cool, condescending pity'? mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 11 2007, 10:35am
            The film shows the transition so well grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Apr 13 2007, 8:51am
                Movie-Frodo's attitude to Gollum is quite different from the book, I think. FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 13 2007, 4:19pm
                    Perfect! grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Apr 14 2007, 9:03am
        Middle-earth is as complicated as the Primary World, mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 12 2007, 12:43pm
            Its not just suffering that makes you great but being forced to Adanedhel Send a private message to Adanedhel Apr 12 2007, 1:58pm
                That's exactly it, I would say!... mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 13 2007, 8:47am
            I think the inner and outer greatness, Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 12 2007, 3:01pm
                But WHY do they govern the Shire in the end?... Not just because mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 13 2007, 4:32am
                    Well, my other post about WWII & LOTR was actually mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 13 2007, 5:41am
    Moral relativism. Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 10 2007, 9:23pm
        Exactly my problem. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 10 2007, 9:29pm
            Hmm... Morwen Send a private message to Morwen Apr 10 2007, 10:03pm
            We don't know if those stories are true. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 10 2007, 11:33pm
                But... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 11 2007, 12:33am
                    If Saruman had not gone to the Shire Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 11 2007, 12:54am
                        You think? Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 11 2007, 1:44am
                            Is Saruman right? N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Apr 11 2007, 3:07am
                                Depends on who he's talking about. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 11 2007, 1:55pm
                                    Gandalf as Machiavelli? Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 11 2007, 2:26pm
                                        Gandalf as Sisyphus? Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 11 2007, 2:55pm
                                            I've enjoyed reading your debate FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 11 2007, 3:50pm
                                                It makes more sense in the real world Adanedhel Send a private message to Adanedhel Apr 11 2007, 4:23pm
                                                    That is true FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 11 2007, 4:42pm
                                                        It didn't happen in Middle earth either. Adanedhel Send a private message to Adanedhel Apr 11 2007, 4:52pm
                                                            I'm only talking about LotR FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 11 2007, 5:42pm
                                                        Perhaps great spiritual persons you don't know yet of mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 15 2007, 7:53am
                                                    Wonderfully correct... and after all, mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 15 2007, 6:47am
                                                Thanks! Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 11 2007, 4:46pm
                                                    How about "idealized"? Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 11 2007, 5:40pm
                                                        But... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 11 2007, 6:02pm
                                                            Please introduce me Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 11 2007, 7:09pm
                                                                Sure thing! Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 11 2007, 7:22pm
                                            The 'decline of the world' is only mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 14 2007, 10:04am
                                                Well!! Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 16 2007, 1:28pm
                                                    It's not an attack at all, mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 17 2007, 8:48am
                                        Speaking of Machiavelli... N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand Apr 11 2007, 7:00pm
                                            To answer your question, no. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 11 2007, 8:28pm
                                    So, it seems to all boil down to this: mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 12 2007, 3:50pm
                                        Nope. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 12 2007, 7:25pm
                                            Sorry, I do apologise for getting all worked up...! mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 13 2007, 8:24am
                                                No problemio Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 13 2007, 2:58pm
                                                    Thanks for this; but, re. your last question... what say YOU? / mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 13 2007, 3:17pm
                                                        Well... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 13 2007, 4:06pm
                                                            True enough Adanedhel Send a private message to Adanedhel Apr 13 2007, 7:24pm
                                                                Freedom of will FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 13 2007, 8:12pm
                                                                    "Lack of alternatives clears the mind." Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 13 2007, 8:40pm
                                                                        That's exactly my point FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 13 2007, 8:50pm
                                                                You're getting way of ahead of me! // ;o) Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 13 2007, 8:20pm
                                                                Perfect reply... I would only add that mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 14 2007, 10:54am
                                                    To be wise is not to be cruel. Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 13 2007, 8:09pm
                                                        Dunno. Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 13 2007, 9:17pm
                                                            Oh my! Saruman relented?! mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 14 2007, 6:51am
                                                            He is deepely affected, but his pride still rears up. Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 16 2007, 12:47pm
                                                                Well, we're saying two interesting variations of the same thing, mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 17 2007, 12:04pm
                                                        Hear, hear! I agree fully. mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 14 2007, 7:50am
                                            {{hugs Darkstone}} Proof! LotR is great literature!!! dernwyn Send a private message to dernwyn Apr 13 2007, 10:54am
                                                Ooops! Forgot to do and say that to Darkstone myself!... mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 13 2007, 11:24am
                                            Yep. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 13 2007, 10:07pm
                            It sounds like you're a fan of Bored of the Rings. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 11 2007, 11:17am
                                Gandalf as a theodicean? Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 11 2007, 1:37pm
                                    Yes, they are human Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 11 2007, 2:17pm
                                        Well.... Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 11 2007, 3:08pm
                                    Frodo as a Candide figure FarFromHome Send a private message to FarFromHome Apr 12 2007, 8:20pm
                                That's OK so long as you've got Gandalf's intuition handy. L. Ron Halfelven Send a private message to L. Ron Halfelven Apr 11 2007, 2:50pm
                                    Intuition is not only for the Gandalfs... mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 15 2007, 5:17am
                                    I forgot to add that mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 15 2007, 5:31am
                    The apparent result is not the only one... mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 14 2007, 8:07am
            That's the exact thing I was avoiding until the next post.// Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 11 2007, 1:37pm
        I'm glad someone is at last saying this... And the kind of hierarchy mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 11 2007, 12:08pm
        Or to quote Robert Heinlein, Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 11 2007, 1:17pm
    ownership Ciars Send a private message to Ciars Apr 11 2007, 5:56pm
        Very interesting! Darkstone Send a private message to Darkstone Apr 11 2007, 6:10pm
        I just mean that if I can Adanedhel Send a private message to Adanedhel Apr 11 2007, 6:10pm
            Definitely so, IMO. mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 12 2007, 12:54pm
        Bilbo wasn't redeemed by his Pity. . . Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 11 2007, 6:26pm
            Maybe Ciars Send a private message to Ciars Apr 11 2007, 6:33pm
    Bilbo had the same reaction as Frodo grammaboodawg Send a private message to grammaboodawg Apr 12 2007, 4:29pm
    Thank you for this continuing series, by the way. Curious Send a private message to Curious Apr 13 2007, 11:58am
        You're welcome. Advising Elf Send a private message to Advising Elf Apr 16 2007, 2:06pm
    "Not to strike without need" linkin-artelf Send a private message to linkin-artelf Apr 14 2007, 10:18pm
        'You have not seen him.' mae govannen Send a private message to mae govannen Apr 15 2007, 7:13am

 
 
 

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