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"Eyot" lost me a game of Scrabble.
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Smeagirl/Girllum
Gondor


Oct 16 2008, 12:53pm

Post #26 of 40 (178 views)
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Very interesting indeed! [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think I ever gave much thought to that sentence you quoted, but Kimi's explanation makes sense.



"I think it is a sad story," said the wizard, "and it might have happened to others, even to some hobbits that I have known."





Smeagirl/Girllum
Gondor


Oct 16 2008, 1:01pm

Post #27 of 40 (178 views)
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Very interesting, thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Now I have more archaic squirrel-related words to add to my collection. Cool

I don't know how they compare to the English squirrels, but the grey squirrels near me do have very pretty white bellies. I can see how it would be prized by fur-wearing humans.



"I think it is a sad story," said the wizard, "and it might have happened to others, even to some hobbits that I have known."





Smeagirl/Girllum
Gondor


Oct 16 2008, 1:09pm

Post #28 of 40 (212 views)
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Really? I never heard of such a thing. [In reply to] Can't Post

I dunno, I'd be scared to use it. What if I wound up like this guy?

Anyway, I have a feeling that most Squirrlish "words" are actually tail movements. Even if I got a fake tail, I couldn't move it in the same patterns they do. So I doubt I could ever speak Squirrlish. Frown

I do enjoy watching them though.



"I think it is a sad story," said the wizard, "and it might have happened to others, even to some hobbits that I have known."





Peredhil lover
Valinor

Oct 16 2008, 3:09pm

Post #29 of 40 (178 views)
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These differences are such a nuissance sometimes! [In reply to] Can't Post

My best friend was married to an American, and her daughter grew up bilingual, but of course she was speaking American English. But living in Germany, where the schools teach British English, she was always arguing with her English teacher if something was correct or not. So I can imagine how you must have felt!

Now I am beginning to wonder how much American English I've already picked up and mixed into the British English I was taught Wink

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Annael
Half-elven


Oct 16 2008, 9:16pm

Post #30 of 40 (217 views)
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Tsk [In reply to] Can't Post

One thing I'm becoming more and more convinced of: to analyze and pick something apart doesn't increase understanding and it destroys the mystery and soul of the thing so treated.

As Gandalf tried to tell Saruman: "He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."

But don’t be satisfied with stories, how things have gone with others. Unfold your own myth . . . start walking. Your legs will get heavy and tired. Then comes a moment when you feel the wings you’ve grown, lifting.

- Rumi

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


stormcrow20
Gondor


Oct 16 2008, 10:45pm

Post #31 of 40 (179 views)
Shortcut
Ouch! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll bet that was a hair-raising experience!

Here is the caller I found, third item from the top. If I were to try it, I would definitely do it through a window, just in case I inadvertently said something rather offensive in Squirrlish, as that guy apparently did. Crazy

Yeah, those tails are quite 'articulate', in more ways than one. I sometimes wonder if they couldn't become airborne. *imagines squirrel-copters zooming through the trees*

~~~~~~
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss (Theodor Geisel)

Believe in the possibility of the impossible.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Oct 17 2008, 3:39am

Post #32 of 40 (196 views)
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Are you addressing Stimpson, Rosebury, or Drout? [In reply to] Can't Post

In this case, the one who analyzes Tolkien most closely is the one who admires Tolkien the most.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Oct. 13-19 for "The Pyre of Denethor".

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.


Annael
Half-elven


Oct 17 2008, 3:53am

Post #33 of 40 (193 views)
Shortcut
general observation [In reply to] Can't Post

I've only recently realized that's why I stopped participating in the Reading Room. Too much analysis.

In my grad school program they're teaching us how to relate to a story or symbol or dream instead of analyzing it - how to amplify what has meaning for us individually instead of dissecting it.

From the doorsill of a dream they called my name.
It was the good voice, the voice I loved so much.
“-Listen,” said the voice. “Will you go with me to visit the soul?”
- Antonio Machado


* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Oct 17 2008, 3:33pm

Post #34 of 40 (179 views)
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I think such an approach would be welcome in the Reading Room. [In reply to] Can't Post

There are certainly no restrictions or even guidelines in that forum on how to discuss Tolkien's works, and participants in the discussions take a variety of approaches. I hope, as your schedule permits, that you'll post again there with some amplification of what you find meaningful in Tolkien's work.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Oct. 13-19 for "The Pyre of Denethor".

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.


Smeagirl/Girllum
Gondor


Oct 17 2008, 7:17pm

Post #35 of 40 (171 views)
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LOL at the image of squirrel-copters! [In reply to] Can't Post

That would be an awesome animated TV series or something.

Thanks for the link, but I don't like the idea of that squirrel call. I wouldn't want to "duplicate a high pitched distress call of a baby squirrel"! I guess I'd better keep observing them silently. They probably think I'm stupid when they bark at me and I don't reply, but so be it.



"I think it is a sad story," said the wizard, "and it might have happened to others, even to some hobbits that I have known."





N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Oct 18 2008, 10:14pm

Post #36 of 40 (165 views)
Shortcut
For instance, this quote by Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post

...from "On Fairy-stories" (discussion begins tomorrow!) sound very like what you wrote:


Quote
For with the picture in the tapestry a new element has come in: the picture is greater than, and not explained by, the sum of the component threads. Therein lies the inherent weakness of the analytic (or ‘scientific’) method: it finds out much about things that occur in stories, but little or nothing about their effect in any given story.


(From the third footnote to section on "Origins".)

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Oct. 13-19 for "The Pyre of Denethor".

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.


Annael
Half-elven


Oct 19 2008, 3:49pm

Post #37 of 40 (156 views)
Shortcut
well [In reply to] Can't Post

it certainly WAS the approach when we first started the RR.

From the doorsill of a dream they called my name.
It was the good voice, the voice I loved so much.
“-Listen,” said the voice. “Will you go with me to visit the soul?”
- Antonio Machado


* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


silneldor
Half-elven


Oct 20 2008, 1:52am

Post #38 of 40 (150 views)
Shortcut
Bounce, bounce, bounce..........? [In reply to] Can't Post

"To seek for the meaning is to cut open the ball in search of it's bounce''.

"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."

Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez

After Sunset
I have an understanding with the hills
At evening, when slanted radiance fills
Their hollows, and the great winds let them be,
And they are quiet and look down at me.
Oh, then I see the patience in their eyes
Out of the centuries that made them wise.
They lend me hoarded memory, and I learn
Their thoughts of granite and their whims of fern,
And why a dream of forests must endure
Though every tree be slain; and how the pure,
Invisible beauty has a word so brief
A flower can say it, or a shaken leaf,
But few may ever snare it in a song,
Though for the quest a life is not too long.
When the blue hills grow tender, when they pull
The twilight close with gesture beautiful,
And shadows are their garments, and the air
Deepens, and the wild veery is at prayer,
Their arms are strong around me; and I know
That somehow I shall follow where you go
To the still land beyond the evening star,
Where everlasting hills and valleys are,
And silence may not hurt us any more,
And terror shall be past, and grief and war.

Grace Hazard Conkling (conclusion of a song recital from the book Lake Minnewaska by W Doughty where he says ''this is not the end of songs which we are certain will continue to rise from gifted minds and hearts in this enchanted realm where sometimes 'great mists lie' but always where 'great dreams rise' ''.) ...Reminds me particularly of the elves and the ents


May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!

In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo
By El~Cugu

From the website: 'The Realm of Manwe'








N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Oct 20 2008, 3:46am

Post #39 of 40 (145 views)
Shortcut
But Tolkien sought for meaning. [In reply to] Can't Post

If memory serves, you quote Roger Lancelyn Green on Tolkien's Smith of Wootton Major, and Tolkien approved of Green's comments. But recently an entire essay by Tolkien has been published in which he explains that story. And much of Tolkien's professional work was close analysis of medieval literature.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Oct. 13-19 for "The Pyre of Denethor".

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.


silneldor
Half-elven


Oct 20 2008, 1:26pm

Post #40 of 40 (164 views)
Shortcut
Yes, he did [In reply to] Can't Post

but 'meaning' he must have understood can mean dissection too. I believe knowledge comes upon us in two ways and 'read' by us in two ways. The right side of the brain takes in and absorbs 'it' as a whole and without the analytical, with out the dissectioning . That is the job of the left side. The right side takes all without language and without naming everything and it is because it is just excess baggage or in other words, it does not need to 'gilding the lily'. The lily needs no embellishment either of itself or in our minds. Cutting it open will not reveal the reason for it's beauty.

Doctors visit zoommmmm

"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."

Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez

After Sunset
I have an understanding with the hills
At evening, when slanted radiance fills
Their hollows, and the great winds let them be,
And they are quiet and look down at me.
Oh, then I see the patience in their eyes
Out of the centuries that made them wise.
They lend me hoarded memory, and I learn
Their thoughts of granite and their whims of fern,
And why a dream of forests must endure
Though every tree be slain; and how the pure,
Invisible beauty has a word so brief
A flower can say it, or a shaken leaf,
But few may ever snare it in a song,
Though for the quest a life is not too long.
When the blue hills grow tender, when they pull
The twilight close with gesture beautiful,
And shadows are their garments, and the air
Deepens, and the wild veery is at prayer,
Their arms are strong around me; and I know
That somehow I shall follow where you go
To the still land beyond the evening star,
Where everlasting hills and valleys are,
And silence may not hurt us any more,
And terror shall be past, and grief and war.

Grace Hazard Conkling (conclusion of a song recital from the book Lake Minnewaska by W Doughty where he says ''this is not the end of songs which we are certain will continue to rise from gifted minds and hearts in this enchanted realm where sometimes 'great mists lie' but always where 'great dreams rise' ''.) ...Reminds me particularly of the elves and the ents


May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!

In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo
By El~Cugu

From the website: 'The Realm of Manwe'







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