Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
JRRT Artist and Illustrator: Chap. 3: #5: Miscellaneous and Open Discussion

NZ Strider
Rivendell

Mar 16 2007, 8:51am

Post #1 of 11 (203 views)
Shortcut
JRRT Artist and Illustrator: Chap. 3: #5: Miscellaneous and Open Discussion Can't Post

JRRT Artist and Illustrator: Chap. 3: #5: Miscellaneous & Open Discussion

First, a question to those who’ve not been AWOL from these discussions: Is the week’s discussion leader still expected to post a “summary” of the week’s discussion?

Now, I’m not entirely sure what sorts of questions to ask about the remaining drawings in this chapter of *Artist and Illustrator*. This is probably more of a reflexion on me than on the artist.

At any rate, of the drawings which I’ve not had anything to say about, here are some of the more striking, IMHO:

First, Owlamoo, another of Michael Tolkien’s nightmares:



Next, there is a sheet with three sketches on it. The house is the Tolkiens’ house on Northmoor Rd. in Oxford (I made a point of walking past it, by the way, when I had to walk up to Wolfson College whilst staying a few weeks in Oxford a few years ago). The house -- as, perhaps, the mundane looking shop in “Shop on the Edge of the Hills of Fairy Land” -- stands in close proximity to a rather severe looking figure seated on some sort of throne (a giant or ogre of sorts?) as well as to a figure with three animal’s heads next to a smaller figure holding a toy dragon on wheels.




The mind boggles; though one would like to imagine that there was some story which Tolkien told his children and which involved those creatures. Perhaps we may suggest a UUT: one of the creatures is, in fact, the mysterious Orgog!

Next, we have Tolkien’s drawings of Father Christmas, and Father Christmas’s house:



For the house compare “Northern House”:





Anyway, I’ve no real questions. Does anyone have any comments to make about, say, Owlamoo? Or other UUTs to contribute? Or does someone wish to discuss a drawing which I haven’t?

As Squire would say, talk amongst yourselves.


Curious
Half-elven

Mar 16 2007, 10:19am

Post #2 of 11 (87 views)
Shortcut
I haven't seen summaries for a while. [In reply to] Can't Post

They were always optional, of course. So let me take this chance to thank you for leading this week's discussion.

I love Owlamoo. This must be how an owl looks to a mouse. I also love the seemingly random set of drawings including a three-headed fellow next to a child with a toy dragon. I love all these drawings, really, not because they are great drawings, but because I love to imagine listening in on Tolkien telling bedtime stories to his children. What lucky children! Well, in that respect, at least.


a.s.
Valinor


Mar 16 2007, 10:47am

Post #3 of 11 (103 views)
Shortcut
Is Orgog related to Orgoglio? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
The mind boggles; though one would like to imagine that there was some story which Tolkien told his children and which involved those creatures. Perhaps we may suggest a UUT: one of the creatures is, in fact, the mysterious Orgog!




Hmmm. I just made this connection, very interesting but tenuous:

The enemy giant of Spenser's Fairie Queen is named "Orgoglio" (which translates as "pride" from Italian), who steals Duessa from the Red-Cross knight (if I remember this correctly, I've just looked stuff up on the web and put the references below). Duessa comes riding out of Orgoglio's castle on a "manyheaded" beast:



And after him the proud Duessa came,
High mounted on her manyheaded beast,
And euery head with fyrie tongue did flame,
And euery head was crowned on his creast,
And bloudie mouthed with late cruell feast.
That when the knight beheld, his mightie shild
Vpon his manly arme he soone addrest,
And at him fiercely flew, with courage fild,
And eger greedinesse through euery member thrild.



Is the giant in the picture Orgoglio? The many-headed beast some connection? Is the name "Orgog" somehow related to Orgoglio?

All just an interesting coincidence. Probably?

http://www.uky.edu/...mentary/orgoglio.htm

http://www.uky.edu/...ry/orgogliointro.htm

a.s.

"an seileachan"

Everybody's wondering what and where they all came from.
Everybody's worried 'bout where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done.
No one knows for certain, and so it's all the same to me:
I think I'll just let the mystery be.
~~~~Iris DeMent


drogo
Lorien


Mar 16 2007, 11:49am

Post #4 of 11 (79 views)
Shortcut
I was thinking along the lines of Gog and Magog [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't have my books at hand, but know Tolkien was not too happy with Spenser's "Faerie" (and his use of allegory with Redcrosse Knight, Duessa, etc.). Still, Tolkien could mine Spenser for names in his children's stories!

Thanks for the discussion, NZS, and hope to see you around these parts more as the academic life and family life allow! Gee, that sounds a bit like Tolkien's life when he was doing these drawings! Wink


(Formerly drogo of the two names!)


a.s.
Valinor


Mar 16 2007, 11:53am

Post #5 of 11 (79 views)
Shortcut
yes, Kimi too [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw Kimi's post below , and thought I was over-reaching by thinking of Orgoglio...until I saw that three-headed beast picture underneath the giant's picture and starting thinking (always dangerous, yes, I know).

There's probably no connection, but it is sort of interesting. Or maybe there's a MUTUAL connection (between the many-headed beast and giant from Spenser and Tolkien's drawings) but I just don't know about it....

a.s.

"an seileachan"

Everybody's wondering what and where they all came from.
Everybody's worried 'bout where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done.
No one knows for certain, and so it's all the same to me:
I think I'll just let the mystery be.
~~~~Iris DeMent


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Mar 17 2007, 1:35am

Post #6 of 11 (74 views)
Shortcut
I find Owlamoo not scary at all. [In reply to] Can't Post

For something that's supposed to be the object of a child's nightmare, I think he's a rather handsome old bird! Wise-looking, and nicely detailed. Perhaps he drew the owl this way, to help calm Michael.

The sitting ogre reminds me a bit of the Great Goblin in The Hobbit. I wonder if it's meant to be a caricature on a former teacher of his, or a military higher-up he disliked, or one of his peers?

Thank you for the week's discussion - good to see you back regularly on the boards!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Confusticate and bebother these dwarves!"


NZ Strider
Rivendell

Mar 18 2007, 12:54am

Post #7 of 11 (93 views)
Shortcut
You know, with the guesses [In reply to] Can't Post

about Gog and Magog (two monsters) and the Spenser reference to Orgoglio and the "many-headed beast," we may just have gotten closer to the nature of the "Orgog" than Hammond & Scull. Nice catches, you and Kimi.


Elizabeth
Valinor


Mar 18 2007, 1:31am

Post #8 of 11 (79 views)
Shortcut
Why was Michael the only one with nightmares? [In reply to] Can't Post

Was he somehow more highly strung than the other kids? Or are there drawings for the others we haven't heard about yet?

I do like Owlamoo. He looks more distinguished than threatening.

As for the 'tryptich' of drawings... there's doodling and doodling, and I think it's very revealing of Tolkien's thought processes that, given a blank sheet of paper, this particular combination of the mundane and fantastical is what emerges.

NZ, allow me to join the chorus of folks who have been glad you're back, and hope you'll continue to stop in from time to time. And thanks for a great discussion!




Queen Mary II approaching Honolulu harbor
February 9, 2007, 7:30 am


Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Mar 18 2007, 3:07am

Post #9 of 11 (87 views)
Shortcut
It was also only Michael who dreamed of the great wave. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I say this about the 'heart', for I have what some might call an Atlantis complex. Possibly inherited, though my parents died too young for me to know such things about them, and too young to transfer such things by words. Inherited from me (I suppose) by only one of my children, though I did not know that about my son until recently, and he did not know it about me. I mean the terrible recurrent dream (beginning with memory) of the Great Wave, towering up, and coming in ineluctably over the trees and green fields. (I bequeathed it to Faramir.) I don't think I have had it since I wrote 'The Downfall of Númenor' as the last the legends of the First and Second Age.


That's from Letter #163 to W.H. Auden, 7 June 1955. And in Letter #180 (a draft) to Mr. Thompson, 14 January 1956, Tolkien writes:


Quote
For when Faramir speaks of his private vision of the Great Wave, he speaks for me. That vision and dream has been ever with me -- and has been inherited (as I only discovered recently) by one of my children.


Endnotes by Humphrey Carpenter identify the son as Michael.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Detail from earliest version of Thror's MapTolkien Illustrated! Jan. 29-May 20: Visit the Reading Room to discuss art by John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith and others, including Tolkien himself.

Mar. 12-18: Tolkien's Art for Children.


a.s.
Valinor


Mar 18 2007, 3:53am

Post #10 of 11 (98 views)
Shortcut
***a.s. blushes [In reply to] Can't Post

well, you have no idea how pleased your comment makes me. Not sure, of course, that there is anything except speculation in the intersections of the drawing, the purported "Orgog" story, and Orgoglio/many-headed beast---but it's fun to speculate!!

Blush

a.s.

"an seileachan"

Everybody's wondering what and where they all came from.
Everybody's worried 'bout where they're gonna go when the whole thing's done.
No one knows for certain, and so it's all the same to me:
I think I'll just let the mystery be.
~~~~Iris DeMent


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 19 2007, 6:55pm

Post #11 of 11 (102 views)
Shortcut
Maholo Nui Loa [In reply to] Can't Post

for this weeks discussion. It was good for me to participate when I could. Sorry I dropped off there at the end. I have little to add to this discussion.

That owl is wonderful. He is quite graphic, yet a has a full-bodied pursonality: wise, kind of curmudgeony, kind of stodgy and alloof, and yet kind of huggable if he lets you get to know him well enouth. And quite cute (though I detest that word) despite himself. Or, how about these words for "cute that my Thesaurus spewed out: Endearing, Appealing, Charming, Delightful, Adorable, Clever, Shrewd, Quick-witted.

Thanks NZ.
DoN

Alan Lee Discussion week: starts March 25th in the Reading Room

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory
Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.