Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Hobbit Scripts
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All

Changeitminimally
Registered User

May 21 2008, 1:39pm

Post #1 of 81 (683 views)
Shortcut
The Hobbit Scripts Can't Post

Is anyone aware of a website or online petition for urging the writers not to change the storyline/main details of the Hobbit anymore than they have to?

People are going to see these films regardless of whether the script tries to follow the book or not. I can accept visuals that differ from my imagination (everyone's imagination is unique) but I just don't want to see Tom Bombadillo replaced by Arwen, Smog killed by a hobbit, or have Legolas show up partying with the elves in Mirkwood.


DiveTwin
Rohan


May 21 2008, 2:55pm

Post #2 of 81 (334 views)
Shortcut
Not That I've Heard Of [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Is anyone aware of a website or online petition for urging the writers not to change the storyline/main details of the Hobbit anymore than they have to?

People are going to see these films regardless of whether the script tries to follow the book or not. I can accept visuals that differ from my imagination (everyone's imagination is unique) but I just don't want to see Tom Bombadillo replaced by Arwen, Smog killed by a hobbit, or have Legolas show up partying with the elves in Mirkwood.



I'm not aware of anything like that - but there are so many folks passionate in different ways about all things Tolkien, I wouldn't be surprised.

For "Lord Of The Rings" I wished some changes had not occurred - but consider it part of translating a great book into a fantastic movie. The end product was spectacular and I have only minor quibbles now, if any. For me, they stayed faithful enough to the books to please most folks and I'm happiest for the things they were going to change ... but in the end did not. Scenes like Arwen battling at Helm's Deep or having Sauron appear in physical form to battle Aragorn at the Black Gates.

Fortunately, they decided the story was one already loved by untold millions of fans, so they could drop-kick conventional Hollywood logic and just generally trust the story as told. And I think they succeeded brilliantly just by resisting the urge to significantly alter it in order to have it fall in line with the normal Hollywood formula.

So I expect the same from "The Hobbit". I thnk they will generally trust the story as it is - but will tweek it when they feel it's necessary in order to work better on film. Or add scenes that are simply eluded to (ex: the Saruman/Gandalf scene in "FOTR" that PJ fleshed out). Don't know yet if they will have White Council scenes in "The Hobbit" or in the second film or possibly both - will have to wait and see.

Since Tom Bombadil isn't in "The Hobbit" in any way, shape or form I wouldn't worry about that. Smog won't be killed by Bilbo. Legolas could show up with the Mirkwood elves - he is, after all, one of them. His involvement just wasn't specified in "The Hobbit" but I wouldn't have a problem with that.

"Do not come between the Nazgul and his prey"


merklynn
Lorien


May 21 2008, 6:32pm

Post #3 of 81 (306 views)
Shortcut
Quick thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about the examples you gave. Tom Bombadil is not even in The Hobbit. Legolas IS an Elf from Mirkwood, in fact he is the son of King Thranduil, the guy who holds the dwarves captive in The Hobbit. So Legolas would not be out of place. I'm not Legolas fan, but he was okay. As long as they don't over expose Legolas then I'd be fine with a cameo from him. Its all really about how it is handled. I doubt they will have a Hobbit kill Smaug, although this is one area where it is possible that they might make changes. Bard is introduced very late in the story, to the point of almost being awkward. Not sure what they will do, but the best thing to do is to stick to the book.

The White Council should be a major part of the companion film, as should the Arwen and Aragorn romance. These two are the most substantial storylines between The Hobbit and LOTR. Here's hoping everyone returns and we get a super cool companion movie.


(This post was edited by merklynn on May 21 2008, 6:34pm)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


May 21 2008, 7:58pm

Post #4 of 81 (276 views)
Shortcut
No, I haven't. [In reply to] Can't Post

And I wouldn't sign one. I trust Philippa/Fran/Peter and GdT to treat this adaptation as well as anyone every could. I wouldn't be surprised if they already had it halfway done before the green-light was given ;)



sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


Jazmine
Tol Eressea


May 21 2008, 8:17pm

Post #5 of 81 (290 views)
Shortcut
But [In reply to] Can't Post

Legolas is a Mirkwood Elf, therefore, it would be entirely reasonable to have him in it. He is the Elvenking's son, after all. The dwarves and Bilbo spend a fair amount of time in his halls, so I'd be surprised if he didn't pop up somewhere.

I'm in agreement with gramma on this, I trust the writers to do a good job adapting it. One thing that must be remembered when adapting a book for the big screen - it will never be exactly the same page for page. That's pretty much impossible. Having experienced LoTR in various artistic mediums, be it book, radio, movie, theatre, each one has been very different. I've even heard an underground heavy metal band perform whose entire albums were based on various sections of LoTR. And it worked. Just because it differs from the original medium, to me, that doesn't make it bad. If it's a good interpretation, it will work.


*Jazminatar the Brown*


Changeitminimally
Registered User

May 21 2008, 9:35pm

Post #6 of 81 (366 views)
Shortcut
Really? Legolas is from Mirkwood? And he's an Elf?! [In reply to] Can't Post

The point I'm trying to make is that changes are not necessary. To make these small changes does not make these films any more marketable and it only hurts the fans who feel that such changes damage the integrity of Tolkien's work. For example, I realize that Legolas is from Mirkwood but there's no mention of him in the Hobbit and it is not necessary to include him in the movie. Just because Bard is introduced late in the story doesn't mean that he is not important or interchangeable with another character.

I just don't want the Hobbit to lose the integrity and have important themes lost like in the LotR films. I deeply enjoyed Peter Jackson's amazing achievement, but feel that unnecessary changes were made for the purpose of making the films mass marketable. This in and of itself is silly considering the fan base that already existed for the books prior to them being made into films. Merry, Pippen, and Gimli were made into comedic caricatures with clunky, humorless dialogue and any scenes with Arwen were completely useless. Faramir's character was totally ruined when the script writers decided he should try to abduct the Ring bearer when he is supposed to demonstrate the character and resolve that Boromir did not possess. The portrayal of Denethor was monstrous and lacking in sublity. And the choice not to have Samwise carry the ring (and consequently not travel across the sea) not to mention the changing to the ending is heartbreaking.

I guess the absence of a website means that I'm in the minority here. That surprises me considering many of the fans of the book that I know won't even watch the films based on the changes made, despite my trying to tell them the films are fantastic.


Patty
Immortal


May 21 2008, 9:47pm

Post #7 of 81 (274 views)
Shortcut
Love your nic, changeitminimally... [In reply to] Can't Post

but in one thing I must disagree...I do think having Legolas in there would indeed make the movie more marketable, now that Orli's fame has taken off. And it is so NOT out of the range of reason (see "Sam..go home", and "Arwen is dying") that I should think even reasonable book purists wouldn't have a great deal of trouble with it. I can't be sure though, since I'm not one, myself.

Hanging out with the Lonely Isle elves.


Darkstone
Immortal


May 21 2008, 9:48pm

Post #8 of 81 (269 views)
Shortcut
Really!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I'm sure even as we speak Jackson, Boyens, and Walsh are sitting around cackling maniacally over how to totally change The Hobbit just to annoy the Real Fans.

Makes me glad I'm Not A Real Fan.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.



N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


May 21 2008, 9:58pm

Post #9 of 81 (283 views)
Shortcut
Changes are in fact necessary. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
The point I'm trying to make is that changes are not necessary.


Some changes will be necessary to turn this book into a film. Some big ones, even. For starters, and most importantly, written words are going to be turned into sounds and moving images. That's pretty drastic! (Almost as drastic as turning Smaug into smog.) And it's not something Tolkien was entirely comfortable with: see his remarks in "On Fairy-Stories" (there's a valuable discussion of this point here).

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us May 19-25 for "Helm's Deep".


Changeitminimally
Registered User

May 21 2008, 10:01pm

Post #10 of 81 (260 views)
Shortcut
sounds [In reply to] Can't Post

I have no problem with the aesthetics, just the plot changes and characterizations of some of the characters.

And eliminating the end of any novel is a pretty big change. You don't have to be a purist to appreciate this.

Again, I realize I'm in the minority here... just throwing some ideas out. Let's keep it civil.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


May 21 2008, 10:05pm

Post #11 of 81 (280 views)
Shortcut
Regarding Legolas. [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't object to seeing him, as a nod to fans of the first film, but there's no significant part for him in a faithful Hobbit adaption, other than as just another one of Thranduil's elves. My suggested model would be what Abbas Kiarostami did with the two boys in Through the Olive Trees (1994), for those fans whose hopes he cleverly sidestepped in And Life Goes On (1991; the best film of that decade) -- the audience with whom I saw Trees cheered with delight, but the cameo didn't take away from the story.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us May 19-25 for "Helm's Deep".


NewMenOrion
Registered User

May 21 2008, 10:07pm

Post #12 of 81 (252 views)
Shortcut
Don't know if it can be done [In reply to] Can't Post

I like merklynn's point. Bard will be a difficult character to manage in a screenplay. They're going to have to work him into the story somehow, but how the hell do you do it? Aaargh. I have a horrible feeling it will be butchered. I will have to read the book again and come up with a solution, write a screenplay, and submit it myself. Okay, well, off to work I go...


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


May 21 2008, 10:08pm

Post #13 of 81 (253 views)
Shortcut
Throw them out! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Again, I realize I'm in the minority here... just throwing some ideas out. Let's keep it civil.


Indeed, let's. But keep the ideas and the discussion coming. And if you like Jackson's LotR, you're in one majority here.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us May 19-25 for "Helm's Deep".


Patty
Immortal


May 21 2008, 10:13pm

Post #14 of 81 (257 views)
Shortcut
I would agree that... [In reply to] Can't Post

his part shouldn't be large. But this insertion is reasonable.

As I said, I'm not a book purist. I could even accept the explanation as to why Glorfindel was dropped, and, though I didn't like it, I was somewhat okay with no scouring, especially since an attempt to a nod was made in the mirror of Galadriel. But "Arwen is dying" , even with the explanation that her fate was now tied to the fate of the ring (as she was now mortal) it just threw me out of the Middle-earth experience, and is the one place that I fast-forward through when I watch the DVD.

Hanging out with the Lonely Isle elves.


Darkstone
Immortal


May 21 2008, 10:36pm

Post #15 of 81 (251 views)
Shortcut
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

One might imagine a Legolas cameo along the lines of Frank Sinatra's in Michael Todd's "Around the World in Eighty Days" (1956). That is, you saw the back of the piano player all during the saloon scene, but only at the end does he turn his face towards the camera for a couple of seconds and you see it's Sinatra. Or perhaps along the lines of John Huston's "The List of Adrian Messenger" (1963) where the many cameo appearances were hidden under makeup.

But of course with the bridge film anything goes.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.



merklynn
Lorien


May 22 2008, 12:06am

Post #16 of 81 (259 views)
Shortcut
Arwen IS dying [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe I'm just weird, or ignorant... but what is wrong with the "Arwen is dying" thing? She WAS dying because she had chosen a mortal life and given up her grace of the Valar. She was mortal now. As far as an Elf is concerned that is a pretty major thing... to suddenly be on limited time... or in other words... to be dying. Therefore, Elrond's words are simply a poetic way of looking at the choice she has made. He lost his wife (sort of, since she was wounded and forced to leave Middle Earth) and now he is going to lose his daughter too. This is how I made rational sense of the scene, which I simply did not dwell on or let it hinder my enjoyment of the film. She is dying... so why get upset about the line? That's just how I look at it anyway.

BTW, where the heck is Smaug referred to as Smog? What did I miss?


Patty
Immortal


May 22 2008, 12:13am

Post #17 of 81 (237 views)
Shortcut
Nah, neither weird nor ignorant... [In reply to] Can't Post

it's just that it is a change from the book that I couldn't stomach. Yes, technically you are right, as she has chosen a mortal life she is dying, as a person bound to the mortal lands seemingly about to come under control of Sauron. But her death isn't imminent, like that statement seems to imply. It didn't strike you that way, and I'm glad of it for your sake, because it was the glaring jolt for me, as "Sam go home" was for others. It's just proof that you can love a movie (and believe me I love these movies!) and still have a problem with something. I'm just glad that out of 3 long movies, only the one thing hit me that hard.

Hanging out with the Lonely Isle elves.


merklynn
Lorien


May 22 2008, 12:25am

Post #18 of 81 (244 views)
Shortcut
The way I look at this stuff... [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't get me wrong. There are things I didn't like about the films... they just weren't the sort that would make me roll my eyes... well almost. For me it was Legolas on the shield... which was later far surpassed in the eye rolling department with his mumakil stuntwork. But I could still stomach it all, even Elijah's drawn out accent and sad starey overacting. Even Saruman's early death, which WAS disappointing. But it couldn't take away from the thrill that the overall package gave me. Each of the three films was able to move me emotionally close to tears. In fact, Boromir's death (the first time I saw it) did bring me to tears. The Ents at the end of the Two Towers was the other close call for me. And the Faramir charge-of-the-light brigade was the other big one. These films meant a lot to me. I finally got to see the books realized on screen, and it was done so in such a powerful and beatiful way... far beyond what I would have expected would be possible. I'm not arguing that anyone should overlook quibbles or nit picks, I'm just rambling at this point about why I overlook some personally. But in some cases, like the "Arwen is dying" thing, I just made an effort to interpret those words in a rational and harmless way. Couldn't quite do that with the "Sam go home" line though.


Patty
Immortal


May 22 2008, 12:38am

Post #19 of 81 (240 views)
Shortcut
Shield Legolas! [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh that was laughable! But I just looked at it as something that some fighting elves could do. It just wasn't my nitpick.

We all had them, I expect. But as I said, I LOVE these movies!

Hanging out with the Lonely Isle elves.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


May 22 2008, 3:14am

Post #20 of 81 (221 views)
Shortcut
Well. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
BTW, where the heck is Smaug referred to as Smog? What did I miss?


I will note that Tolkien considered having Bilbo kill Smaug.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us May 19-25 for "Helm's Deep".


merklynn
Lorien


May 22 2008, 3:31am

Post #21 of 81 (217 views)
Shortcut
That would have been better, I think. - NT [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Peredhil lover
Valinor

May 22 2008, 4:51am

Post #22 of 81 (223 views)
Shortcut
Think about it [In reply to] Can't Post

In the Hobbit Tolkien never even bothered to give the Elvenking a name (while pretty much everyone else has a name, even the orc leader and the birds!) We know only from his other work that the king is Thranduil. Why then should his son be mentioned in the book, or even named? To me, that's no proof that Legolas couldn't be somewhere in the movie. It would be only logical that he is fighting with his fathers army; he's an accomplished warrior, after all. He doesn't need to have a main part, but to see him here and there as one of the Mirkwood elves seems reasonable to me.

And as for any Arwen scenes completely useless - no. One of my main peeves with the book is the sudden apprearance of Arwen in Minas Tirith as Aragorn's bride, after she was only barely mentioned in FotR. To me it is rather unconvincing when the hero gets a wife that no one truly knew he loves at all and was mentioned only in passing hundreds of pages earlier. A few hints would have been nice - even after rereading more than once, I never feel there are truly any. We are told only in hindsight from the appendices that they love each other. Why did Tolkien give the Eowyn/Aragorn-relationship so much more attention than the Arwen/Aragorn one?

I don't agree with all changes Peter, Fran and Philippa made to the story, mind you, but I can live with them, and some changes are always necessary. You can't take a book and make it into a movie word by word, line by line. To be honest, I was even surprised that they kept so close to the book - over time I've seen too many films made after books who were nearly unrecognisable to me. Considering the complicated storyline of LotR, I expected the worst and was very favourably surprised.

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Lost Hobbit
Rivendell


May 22 2008, 10:03am

Post #23 of 81 (197 views)
Shortcut
The script [In reply to] Can't Post

There are things that can not be changed. But few people know what it's like to be a director. Or script author.There are always things that need to be changed just to fit the movie - because it lasts about 3 hours, not 6 or 10. My view is like this - PGs movies will always be an inspiration for othere generations and maybe someday someone will manage to follow Lotr book step by step and put it on the screen exactly the way it really is. Some people are better directors than professional directors. I mean JRR. The way he describes every single moment in his books is like illustration. He always knew what was better. PG made us believe that he admires (and he really does) Tolkiens work. Therefore I can't be too critical with his view of Lotr adaptation. But generally Hobbit is something too sacred - you have to follow every single moment, particularly the first episode with Bilbo and Gandalf (the dialogue is amazing) and some other ones. I predict they will change the scene with spiders a bit, or maybe the scene where Smaug destroys Esgaroth or maybe Bilbos meeting with Bard...or maybe the next morning dialogue with Thorin, with Arkenstone..But there are some other places - they just need to be left like they are.



sador
Half-elven

May 22 2008, 10:49am

Post #24 of 81 (195 views)
Shortcut
I fully agree [In reply to] Can't Post

And if I am allowed to indulge in a bit of self-quoting (if this is considered unethical, please someone tell me), I've posted my thoughts about Arwen's choice here. As I seem to be (in?) a minority who likes movie-Elrond, and as it seems to bear upon the point in question, I submit a link to it (with the hope I do it correctly).

"I will help as I may" - Gimli


AinurOlorin
Half-elven

May 22 2008, 2:03pm

Post #25 of 81 (179 views)
Shortcut
I don't mind Legolas being in [In reply to] Can't Post

As long as he doesn't shoot down Smaug, and doesn't get too much focus in Mirkwood, only a brief nod. It was the ommission of Glorfindel and of the fire magic of one Wizard famed for fire enchantments that broke my heart (though both these things my yet be amended).

As to bard. . . I don't see the need to over expand his role. Have him be one of the men who bring wine to Mirkwood, and feature him prominently in the Lake Town scene. But thats it. He is heroic in deed more than anything else. He is not remotely comparable to Aragorn. He is really more like Boromir. Recall that he was all for attacking the Dwarves early, and had to be restrained in his thinking by Thranduil.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.