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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: TV Discussion: The Rings of Power:
Galadriel and Halbrand #3: It happened
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Hopefull Harfoot
Rivendell


Oct 2, 3:18am

Post #1 of 38 (764 views)
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Galadriel and Halbrand #3: It happened Can't Post



Finally the scene I was waiting (and hoping) for. My opinion, not fact. I have no advance knowledge of what the writers are doing. I am just watchng the interaction and experiences of these two people exclusive of the external events and lores.

But gosh was it tense. Halbrand expressed his feeling that he now for the first time believed he could change courses successfully if he was besides her and the camera then focused on Galadriels face. She makes a pained and sad expression,only 1-2 seconds long. What does it mean? My guess, given her intuition and foresight is that she knew all along it could come to this, and dreaded it's outcome and probably felt sorrow for Halbrand having become attached to her and the broken heart(s) ahead.

And then the clincher: She felt it too. And not only that, but told him. I interpreted it as her thinking it had little chance of working out and fearing the consequences but that her heart had made it's choice.

I am not sure how it will play out, or how long it will run but the next step I expect is the first kiss.

(Shout out to Bronwyn and Arondir!)


50th year anniversary since I first read The Lord of the Rings


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Oct 2, 7:00am

Post #2 of 38 (688 views)
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Shared Trauma [In reply to] Can't Post

Throughout they have been encouraging each other to step back from what is consuming them. Revenge and Guilt.

What they admitted to each other is their companionship could be away out of their obsessions. Galadriel can barely admit that, having admitted she is nothing without her desire for revenge. Indeed when she faces death in the last few frames she seems almost relieved, another way to let go.

Halbrand can see redemption and whereas Saruman would not countenance it when offered it, though Tolkien hinted at hesitation,
Halbrand is taking the idea further he can now see the potential for redemption.

Twice he has unleashed his primal instincts (the breaking of the arm in Numenor) and when he was about to slay Adar. Part of his guilt is clearly attached to a past of unbridled aggressive acts which displayed poor moral judgement.

That dual revelation we saw maybe a paradise moment for them because eventually one withdraws and one way and another the other falls.

Whether the paradise stuff continues a little longer we shall see.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 2, 11:19am

Post #3 of 38 (638 views)
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Er... no, I don't think so... [In reply to] Can't Post

At least, I don't see it like that.. What I saw was a moment of understanding between two characters, each one confronting their own inner darkness and the choices they must make. I think that scene could have been played out just as well between a male elf and Halbrand because it was about understanding, not romance.

For Galadriel I think this goes back to that conversation she had with Finrod in the Prologue - 'How do I recognise the light?' 'Sometimes you have to look into the darkness' (or words to that effect). That's what drives her. This Galadriel is so single-minded I can't see her having room in her head for 'am I falling in love with this bloke, will it work out?' She's looking into the darkness that she saw in Adar - and in her own reaction to him - and trying to find the light.
Of course I don't know any more than you do, but I really hope you're wrong, because that would destroy the Galadriel they've made central to the story.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


DGHCaretaker
Lorien

Oct 2, 4:44pm

Post #4 of 38 (576 views)
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Huh? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Galadriel and Halbrand #3: It happened

Finally the scene I was waiting (and hoping) for. ...
I am not sure how it will play out, or how long it will run but the next step I expect is the first kiss.


"It" happened and they haven't kissed? So I guess "it" didn't happen?

I feel click-baited.


Hopefull Harfoot
Rivendell


Oct 2, 4:59pm

Post #5 of 38 (571 views)
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The paradise [In reply to] Can't Post

That is the sad part of this. It's as frail as a butterfly. But we know, or think we know the outcome. Part of me wishes the writers would change the future. But perhaps the time will last longer then we think and I hope they get to enjoy some time tiogether and experience something worth remembering.


50th year anniversary since I first read The Lord of the Rings


Hopefull Harfoot
Rivendell


Oct 2, 5:06pm

Post #6 of 38 (562 views)
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There is certainly room for different interpretation [In reply to] Can't Post

and I think the writers have chosen to make it ambiguious by design to keep people puzzed.

My read is highly influenced by the body language and expressions of the two characters. I don't think even the actors can completely hide what is going on in there minds despite dialog.

And I read Halbrand as now all in. Galadriel has been harder to read but finally let the truth out with 'So did I'.


50th year anniversary since I first read The Lord of the Rings

(This post was edited by Hopefull Harfoot on Oct 2, 5:16pm)


Bladerunner
Gondor


Oct 4, 2:15am

Post #7 of 38 (384 views)
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I think both Elf/Man romances are superfluous and as unappealing as trying to "ship" Theo and Nori. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I am not sure how it will play out, or how long it will run but the next step I expect is the first kiss.

(Shout out to Bronwyn and Arondir!)


It's pure fan-fiction.


Hopefull Harfoot
Rivendell


Oct 4, 2:51am

Post #8 of 38 (385 views)
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Elf - Man/Woman romances are major stories in Tolkien's works [In reply to] Can't Post

He obviously felt they were important. And although he only wrote about 4 couples (not counting Arwen and Aragorn) which had historical significance, how many occurred between more ordinary folk? It could have happened dozens and dozens of times.


50th year anniversary since I first read The Lord of the Rings


DGHCaretaker
Lorien

Oct 4, 5:55am

Post #9 of 38 (372 views)
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Man? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Elf - Man/Woman romances are major stories in Tolkien's works. He obviously felt they were important. And although he only wrote about 4 couples (not counting Arwen and Aragorn) which had historical significance, how many occurred between more ordinary folk? It could have happened dozens and dozens of times.


More like Maia/Elf. Did Tolkien write one of those?

Ordinary folk are irrelevant. Only what is described in the words written by the author ever happen. The rest is fan fiction.


Hopefull Harfoot
Rivendell


Oct 4, 6:17am

Post #10 of 38 (367 views)
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Yes, Thingol and Melian [In reply to] Can't Post

 


50th year anniversary since I first read The Lord of the Rings

(This post was edited by Hopefull Harfoot on Oct 4, 6:19am)


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 4, 6:18am

Post #11 of 38 (362 views)
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Thankfully [In reply to] Can't Post

We can agree to disagree on the last part.



"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Bladerunner
Gondor


Oct 4, 3:22pm

Post #12 of 38 (332 views)
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Yes, they were extremely important and historically significant and this was reinforced by their rarity in Tolkien's legendarium... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
He obviously felt they were important.


...but now it seems every adaptation has to trivialize and dilute Tolkien's themes by creating relationships he never did.
I understand the appeal, but I wish these writers would leave well enough alone.

Now let's tell the story of when Theo, an emo boy from the Southlands who lost his home, meets Nori, a plucky granola girl Harfoot from Rhovanion, whose home lost her....
Unsure


Ethel Duath
Half-elven


Oct 4, 3:26pm

Post #13 of 38 (333 views)
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Beren and Luthien, Arwen and Aragorn [In reply to] Can't Post

Oddly enough, I like (or get more involved in) Beren and Luthien's than A. & A.'s



DGHCaretaker
Lorien

Oct 4, 4:56pm

Post #14 of 38 (320 views)
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Maia/Elf [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Beren and Luthien, Arwen and Aragorn . Oddly enough, I like (or get more involved in) Beren and Luthien's than A. & A.'s


Neither of those are Maia/Elf.

Thingol and Melian was a better example. Thanks Hopefull Harfoot.


Ethel Duath
Half-elven


Oct 4, 5:33pm

Post #15 of 38 (310 views)
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I know. I was just riffing on [In reply to] Can't Post

human/elf. Too much of an aside, I suppose.



Junesong
Rohan


Oct 4, 5:46pm

Post #16 of 38 (307 views)
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Let's not forget [In reply to] Can't Post

Valar and Elf - If we count Morgoth lusting for Luthien... (cringe)

"So which story do you prefer?"
"The one with the tiger. That's the better story."
"Thank you. And so it goes with God."


Yistaan
The Shire

Oct 4, 7:25pm

Post #17 of 38 (297 views)
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How Galadriel and Halbrand should end [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember reading that Maiar don't reproduce more like Melian because they would be bound to one form and wouldn't be able to shapeshift, etc. Which makes me think, isn't the one sure way for Galadriel to expose Halbrand as Sauron, as everyone online is suspecting, being...?

Galadriel (kisses Halbrand passionately): Let's go to my room.

Halbrand (confused): Uh, wait what?

Galadriel (drags Halbrand to her bedroom): I've been waiting for this for so long.

Halbrand (panics and steps away): Hey, now wait a second! I don't think--

Galadriel: Come on, you'll like this, I promise--

Halbrand: I'm out of here! (runs for the door)

Galadriel (blocks doorway): I knew it! I'm the most beautiful woman in all of Arda! No one could possibly resist what I was offering. No mortal man, that is Halbrand. Or should I call you Sauron?

Halbrand: Blast you, elvish scum!

Galadriel then attacks Halbrand, only later realizing that maybe he wasn't straight and she attacked an innocent man.


Hopefull Harfoot
Rivendell


Oct 4, 8:21pm

Post #18 of 38 (276 views)
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I would like a Theo and Nori matchup [In reply to] Can't Post

Say what you want but both are brave and adventurous. I also can't believe a big people little people relationship never happened, and I might add Bullroarers don't just grow on trees.

Tongue


50th year anniversary since I first read The Lord of the Rings


Yistaan
The Shire

Oct 4, 8:57pm

Post #19 of 38 (266 views)
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Took family history [In reply to] Can't Post

[replyI also can't believe a big people little people relationship never happened, and I might add Bullroarers don't just grow on trees.

Tongue

Galadriel: Have you heard that long ago one of your Took ancestors had taken a fairy wife?

Frodo: Yes, why do you ask?

Galadriel: That was me!

Frodo: Unimpressed


Bladerunner
Gondor


Oct 5, 1:46am

Post #20 of 38 (240 views)
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Theo and Nori can settle somewhere in Bree-land... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and tell their children the story of the time when a meteorite fell from the sky and a volcano erupted.


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Oct 5, 3:43am

Post #21 of 38 (228 views)
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Yes but [In reply to] Can't Post

By definition, the Rings of Power is Fan Fiction. The writers are taking another author's characters (and in this case imagined world) and running with it themselves. it does not stop being Fan Fiction simply because it's authorised that is not a matter of art but legal rights.

The question is really whether each of us receives it in the Spirit of Tolkien.

The potential drama in the distinction between an Elf and a Mortal is a legitimate exploration, it's what Tolkien did. it is playing by the rule book. Whereas I received the Dwarf /Elf thing in the Hobbit as outside the rule book as well as including tasteless dialogue.

Whether the connections in these stories are any good is another matter. I think the four actors are knocking their roles out of the park.

Whereas Celebrimbor and Gil Galad's performances feel wrong and way too modern and the plot development is such Gil Galad's decisions play right into the hands of Sauron. Sending Galadriel away, when the world is already poisoned (the tree) and encouraging, through Elrond, Durin to dig deeper based on what is portrayed as mere conjecture. The logic behind that narrative may clear up in the next two episodes but whatever you call the genre that looks forced and not very Tolkien at the moment. We really are asking Mithril to work overtime.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.

(This post was edited by Michelle Johnston on Oct 5, 3:44am)


Arannir
Valinor


Oct 5, 8:37am

Post #22 of 38 (206 views)
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Nah... [In reply to] Can't Post

I really think it doesn't make sense to call this fanfiction.

For me it remains an adaption. In the case of the Second Age a very broad one. More similar to how many fables and mythologies were adapted over the centuries and millennia. There is probably a scientific term for it, though, that is eluding me right now.



"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 5, 9:12am

Post #23 of 38 (201 views)
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Agreed.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Fan fiction is really an internet thing, amateur and unauthorized (and mostly involving the writer putting themself into an existing story, from what I've seen). People have always imagined themselves into the stories they love, but before the internet there was no forum for it.
RoP is a professional adaptation, made with the agreement of the rights holders. Doesn't mean we have to like all or any of it, but calling it fan fiction doesn't really make sense.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Michelle Johnston
Rohan


Oct 5, 9:31am

Post #24 of 38 (197 views)
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What's In A Term [In reply to] Can't Post

80% of all discussions which revolve around a disagreement are not a disagreement about the facts but the meaning of words.

The point I was trying to make is it does not really matter whether you call it Fiction written by Fans, what matters is the quality of the writing, acting and production values etc.

I then went on to give some examples of how some of their inventions follow the rule book or not.

My view of the RoP today based on what I have seen of your comments is broadly the same as yours but there is a good deal of invention, reimagining going on and movement away from the source material that is how Fiction written by Fans works.

My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.


Eldy
Tol Eressea


Oct 5, 9:39am

Post #25 of 38 (195 views)
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A few points [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Fan fiction is really an internet thing, amateur and unauthorized (and mostly involving the writer putting themself into an existing story, from what I've seen). People have always imagined themselves into the stories they love, but before the internet there was no forum for it.
RoP is a professional adaptation, made with the agreement of the rights holders. Doesn't mean we have to like all or any of it, but calling it fan fiction doesn't really make sense.


While fanfiction is most commonly shared online in recent decades, it predates the Internet as we know it. Fanfic used to be shared primarily in zines (i.e., fan-produced magazines), which were circulated at conventions and by physical mail. Star Trek fans were the most important pioneers here, and even today many important elements of fanfic culture can be traced back to Trek fandom. But there were Sherlock Holmes fans writing and sharing their own "pastiches," which share many qualities of modern fanfiction, even while Arthur Conan Doyle was still writing. And there are even older precedents.

I think there are interesting conversations to be had about the definition of fanfiction and whether professionally published works (or professionally produced movies and TV) should count, but what we usually get instead is the label of fanfic being used as a put-down for stories people don't like. I find this unfortunate, since it implicitly denigrates most written works based on the legendarium. While I think the writers of ROP have demonstrated that they understand the source material, there are some amateur fanfic authors who (IMO) demonstrate an even better understanding, whose works exist in dialogue with the original in more interesting ways than the show, and in some cases are just plain better writers.

Also, as an enjoyer of self-insert fanfiction, I feel obliged to note that—stereotypes aside—it makes up a fairly small minority of all stories. It's also a heavily stigmatized genre, though perhaps not as much as it used to be, at least in fandoms where there have been enough high-profile SI stories for the genre to at least partially shed its reputation of being written exclusively in chatspeak by middle school girls. (Which is not to say young girls shouldn't be able to write what they want, regardless of their level of technical writing ability, but there's a great deal of reflexive hate for anything that's seen as a girls' interest.) Of course, this is also a stereotype of fanfiction as a whole, which is why so many fanficcers try to distance themselves from self-insert authors. :P


(This post was edited by Eldy on Oct 5, 9:40am)

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