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hobbitlove
Gondor
May 20 2008, 7:42pm
Post #1 of 5
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***QTNA 5/20/08 Heroes***
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QTNA: Questions That Need Answering.
Are these woman heroes?
1. Do you think any of these female characters from LOTR are heroes (heroines if you prefer)?
2. Why?
3. Can you give us your definition of hero, please?
Just to help you along, here are a few definitions of hero and heroine. We particularly like heroine #1 from WordNet which we have highlighted* and hero #3 from American Heritage**.
he·ro [heer-oh]
–noun, plural -roes; for 5 also -ros.
1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
3. the principal male character in a story, play, film, etc.
American Heritage Dictionary
he·ro (hîr'ō)
n. pl. he·roes
1 In mythology and legend, a man, often of divine ancestry, who is endowed with great courage and strength, celebrated for his bold exploits, and favored by the gods.
2 A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life: soldiers and nurses who were heroes in an unpopular war.
3 A person noted for special achievement in a particular field: the heroes of medicine. See Synonyms at celebrity.**
4 The principal male character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation.
her·o·ine (hěr'ō-ĭn)
n.
1. A woman noted for courage and daring action.
2. A woman noted for special achievement in a particular field.
3. The principal female character in a novel, poem, or dramatic presentation. See Usage Note at hero.
heroine
noun
*1. the main good female character in a work of fiction *
2. a woman possessing heroic qualities or a woman who has performed heroic deeds
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
Heroine
Her"o*ine\, n. [F. h['e]ro["i]ne, L. heroina, Gr. ?, fem. of ?. See Hero.]
1. A woman of an heroic spirit.
2. The principal female person who figures in a remarkable action, or as the subject of a poem or story.
Bonus Questions
1. The dominant figure of the male, the stronger, the leader, the hero, throughout history, seen in most literature, in art (including film and theatre), and all other areas of culture, including domestic life, business, politics, and nearly any and all heirachies, can not be denied. This persists strongly in the 21st Century. Is such a male dominance inherent or acculturated?
( Yikes! We'll expect your theses on this subject to be handed in, say, 2 to 3 years? LOL)
2. Who is a hero to you in Real Life?
Thanks for taking a look at QTNA.
hobbitlove and ordinary hobbit
Check out
QTNA
Movie Discussions
hob
(former nick: "HobbitLoveR*M-e" among several others)
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weaver
Half-elven
May 20 2008, 10:15pm
Post #2 of 5
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I like the variety of heroes in LOTR...
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Whether we are talking films or the books, I think "hero-ship" is represented in quite a lot of ways in the tale. There's a role model for everybody, really. For example, when ROTK was in theaters, my oldest son was on the heavier side, and getting some teasing about it; seeing Sam save the day and get the girl had a big impact on him. It was exactly the right image he needed to see right then, and I'm grateful to the films for that.
To me, the main quality that heroes have is one of sacrifice -- of putting themselves at risk for the greater good, or to save someone else. In that context, everyone of those ladies you pictured qualifies, except perhaps Rosie. Mostly, we tend to see women in stories as playing roles in relationship to the heroes, but these women I think can be defined as heroic on their own. Galadriel puts her desire for power below the goals of the quest, Arwen chooses a mortal life and gives her grace to Frodo, Eowyn puts her life at risk to fight for those she loves, Morwen puts herself at risk to save her children. Rosie doesn't really fit my definition, unless you think that she was willing to let Sam go to Mordor rather than "claim him" for herself. But that's a stretch. She's more the traditional support person for a male hero, or the thing that spurs one of the heroes on.
On your question of male dominance and how far we've come, well, I think we are perhaps more accepting of "seeing" women in hero roles than in actually having them be in those roles in real life. In RL, I still think it's considered "unusual" for women to be in certain roles -- while people can accept them there, it's still seen as something out of the ordinary, an exception. And Hillary Clinton's presidential bid here certainly shows that some aspects of sexism are alive and well here in the US at least -- the most infamous incident being the time that someone held up a sign that said "iron my shirt" at one of her speeches. It was seen as comical and not very insulting. I'm guessing that had that been a racist statement, the reaction would have been much stronger.
But part of creating change is showing it to us first. While the mini-skirted women and the interracial bridge crew on the early Star Trek show may seem a bit cliche today, at the time, it was important for girls to see they could be on spaceship, and for someone black or Asian to see they had a place on that bridge as well. It was so important that Martin Luther King, Jr. told Nichelle Nichols to stay on the show when she wanted to quit, and seeing her there has been acknowledged by Whoopi Goldberg and others as having a big impact on them.
For me, the first Star Wars film, when Leia grabs the gun, rather than relying on Han and Luke, was pretty powerful. I was in college, and it hit me that I had never seen a woman in TV or in film "save herself" like that, in all my years of growing up -- until that moment, I had never been shown that women could be the rescuer as well as the rescued. In one showing of ROTK, there were three college aged women sitting near me whose reaction to Eowyn's "I am no man" moment seemed to have the same effect on them as Leia and her gun had on me years before. Those are significant, and healing images really, and bode well for us I think.
I once saw an interview with Kate Mulgrew (Captain Janeway of Star Trek) in which she said that one of the goals of the writers for the Voyager series she starred in was to "transcend gender" -- that in developing the characters, they really worked at making it not unusual for her to be in charge or men to report to her. To me, it's very refreshing to watch the show now and then, and to see that no one blinks an eye when she gives an order. It's not exceptional at all for her to be there, in that role, and that's a good thing.
Lots and lots to think about as always, hob. Thanks for bringing some nice balance to the board in the middle of the early hobbit-hype!
Weaver
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Jazmine
Tol Eressea
May 21 2008, 8:36pm
Post #3 of 5
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That moment always leaves me with a feeling of satisfaction too. Eowyn is my favourite character out of these pictures, for precisely that reason. She's a Lady of the Royal House, and is expected to behave in a certain way. But she is as brave and determined as any other man in that army, if not moreso.
Morwen is definitely a hero for what she does there. But I'm pretty sure that's a kind of heroism any mother would show if they were in that circumstance. If you had to potentially sacrifice your own life, in order to give your children at chance at survival, well, there's only one right thing to do isn't there?
*Jazminatar the Brown*
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
May 22 2008, 2:06am
Post #4 of 5
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I felt emotionally attached to each of these images you've chosen. I think they each had heroic moments (some more than others) that played a part in achieving the defeat of the enemy. To me (in it's simplest form), heroic action is when someone steps into a situation to help (or save) someone else while their own well-being is at risk. It could also be someone simply helping another during a difficult time. To the person in need, having someone's selfless support is heroic.
My Mom and my late-Dad are my heroes. Truly, their boundless acceptance and support never ceases to amaze me. They're beautiful.
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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Starling
Half-elven
May 22 2008, 6:04am
Post #5 of 5
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This reminds me of a Liv Tyler quote
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Somewhere on the EE extras for TTT, there is discussion about the plan to have Arwen going to Helm's Deep, and how the idea was eventually ditched.
Liv Tyler was talking about how strong Arwen is because of her determination and the choices she makes, and then she says, "You don't have to put a sword in her hand to make her strong."
There are certainly many ways of being heroic.
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