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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: TV Discussion: The Rings of Power:
Does anyone here genuinely enjoy House of the Dragon more than this show?

lurtz2010
Rohan

Sep 28, 5:31am

Post #1 of 19 (722 views)
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Does anyone here genuinely enjoy House of the Dragon more than this show? Can't Post

I personally think ROP is at least 10x more compelling than HOD and Iím finding it so strange that HOD seems to be getting so much love online while ROP is mostly getting so much hate. I truly donít understand how anyone can say HOD is the better show in any way.

Iíve watched all of HOD so far but I think itís extremely boring with only a few interesting parts in it and Iím only continuing to watch it because I feel obliged to since I watched all of game of thrones. When Iím watching HOD, nearly the whole time Iím just thinking about how much better ROP is lol.


Eledhwen
Forum Admin


Sep 28, 6:33am

Post #2 of 19 (686 views)
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About the same, I'd say [In reply to] Can't Post

They're different shows. I'm more emotionally invested in RoP, but I like what HoD is doing and I'm intrigued to see how it will play out. Also I know a lot more about LOTR canon than GoT canon, so I get less annoyed with changes from the book with HoD!

Storm clouds


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 28, 7:37am

Post #3 of 19 (668 views)
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Hard to compare. [In reply to] Can't Post

They try to do so fundamentally different things that a comparison is hard... But of course things such as production value, writing etc can be compared.

One can certainly say that - deservedly so or not - that HotD managed to rekindle fan love after the disaster that was Season 8 of GoT while RoP is undeniably struggling with a cloud of negativity and controversy. Some of it part of a rather vicious hate storm... But some also due to changes to the lore not everyone likes and some because of some of the character writing and the pacing.

Personally, I watch both. With the state of the world and an over-saturation with gore/sex/grim fantasy (often misleadingly labelled "realistic"), RoP is generally of more interest to be right now.

Imho RoP is far more compelling when it comes to world-building, CGI, themes, and escapism. So far it struggles with pacing and giving the storylines urgency while establishing its core characters and themes clearly. It seems to want to do a little bit too much but still offers the promise of a good opening season with the potential of further improvement. I hope they don't mess it up by the reveals of the next weeks... Or by dragging them into Season 2.

HotD does a better job creating its characters in much less time... However, it is hurt imho by its need to "shock" the audience as well as a ridiculous amount of time jumps and cast changes. I also have issues with the way they claim to want to show women's struggles which often is at odds with what they actually show and do in the show. They didn't convince me, yet, that this isn't three or four seasons of the same old intrigues with the occasional gore effect. But casting, costumes and acting is superbly done. It is, however, doing almost even more set-up than RoP and will also only really set-off towards the end of its season or in Season 2.


In general, both offer very different takes of fantasy.

I wish them both well, if they both improve further we could be in for several years of very diverse and great fantasy television.



"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Archestratie
Rohan


Sep 28, 9:53am

Post #4 of 19 (641 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't watched House of the Dragon, but I've enjoyed all the episodes of RoP until episode 5. That one was pretty bad, so if the consensus out there after last week was that HotD was better, I can't really fault people for saying that.

My Low-Magic Fantasy Novel on eBook/hardback: The Huntsman and the She-Wolf

The Huntsman and the She-Wolf on audio Book.


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Sep 28, 1:15pm

Post #5 of 19 (611 views)
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Not at all [In reply to] Can't Post

HOTD , despite all the hype and high expectations, has turned out to be a complete borefest. The reason is the absolutely dreadful writing that is content to offer the fans a cross between Game of Thrones and Paint-By-Numbers. In the first episode, we get, in order, the white-haired princess on the dragon scene, the small council scene, then the required gruesome, gratuitous violence scene, then the introduction to the royal sociopath scene, then the required naked lady scene, then the required fight scene, and then the required death of a main character scene. Sound familiar? The writers are trying desperately to give the fans what they want and have forgotten how to actually tell a story. Case in point: the "Crab Man" plot line. Who was this guy? Why did he look like he did? Why did he have this predilection for feeding people to the crabs? We don't know. The show just needed a bad guy and some gruesome violence, and a chance to show that Daemon is an utter badass. Virtually every plot line in the show has this paint-by-numbers feel. A dead giveaway is that the showrunners could not even develop an original theme music, instead being content to again recycle GOT material.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.





dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 28, 2:23pm

Post #6 of 19 (599 views)
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The first page of the first book.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... of GoT told me it wasn't for me. I found the writing heavy and hard-going and the story too cruel and too negative for my taste. Nothing I've read, seen or heard about it since has changed my mind, so watching House of the Dragon never occurred to me. (I wouldn't go as far as to say 'I wouldn't watch it if you paid me', 'cos I might watch it then, but only with one eye on something else... Wink )

Rings of Power, on the other hand comes from the stories I've grown up with and known and loved most of my life, so I was eager to see it, look forward to each new episode - yes, it's compelling - and even when I'm not sure about the choices they've made, or would have done things differently I'll still wait and see how it plays out, and try to understand the reasoning behind it.
I let the internet and its rantings wash over me. It's all so polarized. Online, people can't seem to just criticise something, they have to HATE it (in block capitals), and write about it as if they could actually hurt it - and the more a thing is loved, the more unreasoned hate it seems to attract. I haven't looked for reaction to RoP anywhere online beyond TORn so I don't know what's being said, but whatever it is, it doesn't bother me.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


jlj93byu
Rivendell


Sep 28, 5:23pm

Post #7 of 19 (568 views)
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No Desire at All [In reply to] Can't Post

I have zero desire to see it at all, but I'm perhaps not the right audience for this question because I also have zero desire to watch any GOT as well. I've never seen any and don't have interest to.

I'm kind of unique in that I'm not really a fan of all fantasy, really just Tolkien's works and Middle-earth. I don't like Middle-earth because I like fantasy, and I don't like all fantasy because I like Middle-earth, I pretty much love everything Middle-earth and that's kind of it for my love of fantasy. As my wife says, Middle-earth is my only mistress.


Ataahua
Forum Admin


Sep 28, 7:43pm

Post #8 of 19 (542 views)
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All of this. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Iíve watched all of HOD so far but I think itís extremely boring with only a few interesting parts in it and Iím only continuing to watch it because I feel obliged to since I watched all of game of thrones. When Iím watching HOD, nearly the whole time Iím just thinking about how much better ROP is lol.


I just don't care what this family of awful and selfish people get up to. Yet I keep watching in case it gets good - because when GoT was good, it was awesome.

RoP, on the other hand, has genuinely engaging relationships and complex and nuanced characters - not all relationships and characters, of course, but enough to make me look forward to the next episode.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Fantasy novel - The Arcanist's Tattoo

My LOTR fan-fiction


Arannir
Valinor


Sep 28, 8:46pm

Post #9 of 19 (526 views)
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Family [In reply to] Can't Post

You nailed what I think is my issue with HotD. I like the darker approach to fantasy. I like grey characters. But HotD is really horrible people interacting with each other.

They seriously lack the people you root for despite their flaws... At least people I would root for. I know Daemon has a following and people like to overlook the awful things he has done because it was "badass". One of the hypocrisies I dislike about the ASoIaF franchise in general. Also, "grey" means too often stupid or evil with GRRM. Most of these characters are not half as deep as it is often claimed.



"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



(This post was edited by Arannir on Sep 28, 8:48pm)


TFP
Rivendell


Sep 28, 10:07pm

Post #10 of 19 (507 views)
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yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

HoD is utterly terrible. characters who it's impossible to care about doing things that it's impossible to care about. I'm at least a couple of episodes behind, will maybe catch up with them all at some point but probably not soon. whereas I always find myself watching RoP within hours of it coming out, even if I haven't really got the time.


Altaira
Superuser

Sep 29, 4:00am

Post #11 of 19 (459 views)
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A little from column A, a little from column B [In reply to] Can't Post

Both have strong points and both have flaws, but in general I'm enjoying them both immensely, and don't find the need to compare them, or pit them against each other, because they're so different.

One thing they have in common is that they're both faced with the monumental task of following on from very successful franchises. For me, neither one has succeeded in surpassing their previous stories/films, but I'm far from giving up on either.

For me, RoP started off a little slow, but is picking up very promisingly (unlike many here, I loved the last episode). Conversely, RoP started out better to me, but has really slowed down in the middle.

Overall, I agree with Arannir's sentiments:

Quote

In general, both offer very different takes of fantasy.

I wish them both well, if they both improve further we could be in for several years of very diverse and great fantasy television




(This post was edited by Altaira on Sep 29, 4:01am)


Annael
Immortal


Sep 29, 2:19pm

Post #12 of 19 (394 views)
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with you all the way [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually made it farther into the GoT books but after the Red Wedding I was done. The little I saw of the show did not tempt me to see more. But as you say, I hooked into RoP right away, because there were places and people familiar to me. Yes, I'm not sure about some of what they are doing, but hoping we get to see a lot of the exploits of Elendil and sons. And like you, I'm not paying attention to the haters except to pity them for the joyless lives they apparently lead.

I am a dreamer of words, of written words.
-- Gaston Bachelard

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Annael
Immortal


Sep 29, 2:35pm

Post #13 of 19 (390 views)
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"following on from very successful franchises" [In reply to] Can't Post

that's the real trick! IMHO PJ failed with his "Hobbit" movies by trying to out-do LOTR when they should have been quieter lead-ins to the bigger story, just as Lucas failed with the Star Wars "prequels." Ditto with the Harry Potter prequels - they should have stuck with Newt and not brought Grindelwald into it at all, much less tried to make him as big a villain as Voldemort.

RoP is different because the villain is the same, and we know that the ultimate battle has to be every bit as epic as in ROTK. But I hope it isn't all battles. I hope they bring out how Sauron, when he realizes he's not able to win by force YET, goes underground and starts suborning his enemies from within. Again, they have to go quieter and lead up to what we know will happen later, not try to outdo that. My opinion - but I fear I'm not the demographic they're out to please.

Side note: can anyone think of a "prequel" that is better than the original? Godfather II . . .

I am a dreamer of words, of written words.
-- Gaston Bachelard

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


(This post was edited by Annael on Sep 29, 2:40pm)


DGHCaretaker
Lorien

Sep 29, 4:41pm

Post #14 of 19 (366 views)
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Huge Leap [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm not paying attention to the haters except to pity them for the joyless lives they apparently lead.


That's quite the presumption about people who simply don't like a show and criticize it. I see this "joyless life" statement as a wish upon them just for disagreeing with you, and it's grossly unfair, even ironic to say such a thing in the same tone of which you yourself object.


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 29, 5:10pm

Post #15 of 19 (363 views)
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To be fair.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Annael was responding to a remark I made, which was specifically not about people who simply dislike a show and criticize it. There's nothing wrong with that - discussion is good. It was about the tendency the internet has to polarize opinions, so that online there are people don't just dislike a thing, or some aspects of it, and explain why, they hate it, and despise anyone who might like it, and write about it as if they could physically hurt it. It doesn't just happen with TV shows and films, it's books, paintings, politics, celebrities, sports - you name it. And it makes us so divided and so angry.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


cats16
Valinor


Sep 29, 9:38pm

Post #16 of 19 (321 views)
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I won't say "better" [In reply to] Can't Post

As I don't often think about things in that way, but a prequel that certainly earned its stripes to me is Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me. I went in expecting a semi-regrettable expansion of the world, and came out quite stunned, wanting to re-watch the first two seasons immediately. But it stands alone on its own very well too, IMO. That scene in the train car...my gosh.

I do think Lynch finally got closer to saying what he wanted to say in FWWM, whereas the original show was often hamstrung by nature of being a network show with a writing room and executives. FWWM wasn't that, thank goodness.

Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




Annael
Immortal


Sep 29, 9:39pm

Post #17 of 19 (322 views)
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yes, that [In reply to] Can't Post

I've certainly done my share of criticizing shows that I don't like. I hope that I do so thoughtfully. In my book club we've found that we have the most interesting discussions when we actually don't like a book, because it forces us to analyze why (do we feel manipulated by the author, is there not one single character we can feel for, is the plot unbelievable, or is the writing in general poor?). As dormouse points out, I'm talking about the people who decide ahead of time to hate something sight unseen, but not content with that, seem to feel obligated to try to get everyone else to hate it so it's all they ever post about - but they aren't inviting a real conversation about it.

For example, we had a poster way back in the day who was so upset by the rumor that Uma Thurman was going to play Galadriel that every. single. post. by him was about how Uma looks like a "crack whore." For months. He disappeared when Cate was confirmed in the role; apparently he had nothing else to say. Seen it many times here. Yes, I call them haters.

I am a dreamer of words, of written words.
-- Gaston Bachelard

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


(This post was edited by Annael on Sep 29, 9:42pm)


Noria
Gondor

Sep 29, 11:00pm

Post #18 of 19 (299 views)
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Iím with dormouse and Annael about RoP [In reply to] Can't Post

RoP is far from perfect but it feels like Tolkien to me and thereís a lot about it that I really like. As a Tolkien fan of many decades, itís lovely to see another part of the legendarium and these characters on the screen. It doesnít hurt that RoP segues fairly nicely from Jacksonís movies, which I love.

Even if I had HBO. I likely wouldnít watch HoD but not because of the cruelty and cynicism. I was a big fan of A Song of Ice and Fire from the publication of the first book in the mid-1990ís and was excited when the GoT series was announced. But IMO Martin lost his way and I disliked his last book; the television series lost its lustre as well for me after a few seasons. Both overused the gimmicks of shock death and sexploitation in striving for edginess. Iím done with both the books and the television franchise - but hope that their fans continue to enjoy them.

I think that there's legitimate criticism and then there is the other stuff bouncing around in internet echo chambers and being reinforced there. I too ignore it. And as I keep saying, in the end all that will matter is how many people watch RoP.


swordwhale
Tol Eressea


Oct 2, 7:43pm

Post #19 of 19 (154 views)
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welp... [In reply to] Can't Post

I read LOTR in 1978, so am a fan for about 2/3 of my entire life.

I have neither read the books nor seen the series of GoT or HoD. I feel zero need to (although I will admit many folks liked it, and it may, in fact be well made). REASONS: I am personally allergic to grim, dark, gritty and grimmer. I like Tolkien's sense of actual hope, despite the tragedy, the eucatastrophe after the catastrophe...

oh, yeah, and elves. Those are my people.

Goals: crazy dragon lady, mermaid (for the rest, just see my profile)

Na 'Aear, na 'Aear! Mżl 'lain nallol, I sŻl ribiel a i falf 'loss reviol...
To the sea, to the sea, the white gulls are crying, the wind is blowing and the white foam is flying... (JRR Tolkien, Legolas Song of the Sea)







 
 

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