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Victariongreyjoy
Lorien
Sep 26 2022, 10:58am
Post #1 of 13
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[Spoiler]My theory on Halbrand and Numenor
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There are three theories in my view on why he could go rampage on several Numenoreans so easily. Let's begin with the first:
- He is Annatar. That's probably the most likely based from the leaks that has been very correct with their predictions
- Since he is a descendant from a royal line of those who stood with Morgoth, there might be some dark sorcery provided by the dark lord to boost their strength and agility.
- The Numenorean lore has been a bit altered. The noble line of Elros and people connected to them can live longer and have peak strength above other humans living in Numenor. I talked a bit about this issue in this thread. Majority of people in Numenor might be just normal humans, with a slight advantaged to low-men: They have advanced in health care that they can cure any sickness, making ordinary men and women live pass the average human lifespan.
Now my take on the issue with why Numenor don't seem to have a giant fleet and army
In the show timeline they haven't been in any conflicts since the days of Beleriand. The war of Sauron and Elves hasn't happened yet, so it makes sense they do not need a huge military army. I think they have a army and bigger fleet. But because of the uneasy political landscape, Miriel could not risk civil unrest and so we have the volunteers and just three ships. They do have more ships, but maybe they are smaller than the main ones. When Pharazon starts colonizing Middle-Earth as he alludes from last episode, we are going to get a more militant Numenor for sure.
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TFP
Lorien
Sep 26 2022, 12:47pm
Post #2 of 13
(538 views)
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Even in terms of general population size [we know it's not a single city state but there are elements of this about it] Numenor doesn't look it has the 'raw materials', just in terms of numbers, to dominate a continent the size of middle earth. Not that I really mind too much, they've got plenty of time to get it right.
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TFP
Lorien
Sep 26 2022, 1:11pm
Post #3 of 13
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I suppose, if the book chronology were to be followed, they'd also need the time and resources to be able to do stuff like build Minas Tirith, Orthanc, and so on. I suppose the show's hugely compressed timescales will have significant implications here.
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Arannir
Valinor
Sep 26 2022, 1:49pm
Post #4 of 13
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I am pretty sure they will show Numenor to become more militarized when Pharazon starts his colonialist plans. These will have to be defended against Sauron and/or the "natives".
If Numenor had a huge Armada right now, it would raise more questions, tbh. That would only have made sense if the kingdom already had its colonies. But the series version seems to be reliant only on the island itself so far.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Narvi
Lorien
Sep 26 2022, 2:53pm
Post #5 of 13
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There is plenty of evidence that the Numenoreans have travelled extensively in Middle-earth prior to their expedition in the show. They have detailed portolans of the coast of Gondor. There are even indications that they have undertaken colonization in the past: Pelargir is identified on one of the digital maps in a transition sequence. They also speak of corsairs, presumably from Umbar. I think there is plenty of reason to believe that their period of isolation has lasted only a few generations and that their military, which they might have deployed anywhere along the coastal regions of the Great Lands, was once a force to be reckoned with, even if severely depleted by the time of Tar-Palantir.
As for the ships: it would be expensive and unnecessary to maintain a large fleet if all you were doing at sea was patrolling the trade-lanes. However, you can see a massive bank of ship-sheds in the harbor at Armenelos. This, coupled with the evidence of exploration and colonization, leads me to believe that in show!canon, the Numenoreans once had a mighty fleet that they used much earlier in time to dominate the Low Men of Middle-earth.
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Victariongreyjoy
Lorien
Sep 26 2022, 4:27pm
Post #6 of 13
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If they visited Middle-Earth in the past...
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I think in the show timeline it must be very limited colonizations. Like you mentioned, they mainly travelled to the coastal areas. But with Ar-Pharazon plan, they are going to go deeper into the lands of the low-men.
(This post was edited by Victariongreyjoy on Sep 26 2022, 4:31pm)
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Narvi
Lorien
Sep 26 2022, 4:39pm
Post #7 of 13
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The Anduin and the navigable rivers of Eriador will be critical to logistically supplying such ventures inland, as we well know from the later periods of Gondorian expansion. Note that on John Howe's map, a major river has also been added east of the haven at Umbar, allowing access to Near Harad much as the Nile granted access to Egypt to various Mediterranean navies.
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Lindentree
Rivendell
Sep 26 2022, 4:52pm
Post #8 of 13
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Pharazon specifically mentions timber in his list of ME resources.
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Perhaps Numenorian forests have become depleted. As for maintaining a large standing army - expensive, plus a potential source of political intrigue, especially if they remain idle for too long. As long as citizenry generally values the martial arts and gets some training as a mater of course/part of their education then raising a significant force when the need arises is not so difficult.
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Narvi
Lorien
Sep 26 2022, 5:00pm
Post #9 of 13
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Canonically, this (along with mineral deposits, which were rare on Numenor itself) was a major driver of Numenorean colonization in the second millennium of the kingdom's existence, especially under Aldarion. In some versions of the tale, the demand for timber was so high that they completely deforested large swaths of Minhiriath and the Enedwaith, which became swampy as a result.
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Yistaan
The Shire
Sep 27 2022, 5:20pm
Post #10 of 13
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Galadriel: Look at them. They're frightened. I can see it in their eyes. And they should be. One hundred… against ten thousand! They cannot win this fight. They are all going to die!
Halbrand: And they shall die for defying their lord!
Galadriel: ...
Halbrand: Um, I mean that's a bad thing of course. And, uh, Morgoth isn't really their lord.
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DGHCaretaker
Rohan
Sep 27 2022, 6:23pm
Post #11 of 13
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Galadriel: Look at them. They're frightened. I can see it in their eyes. And they should be. One hundred… against ten thousand! They cannot win this fight. They are all going to die!
Halbrand: And they shall die for defying their lord!
Galadriel: ...
Halbrand: Um, I mean that's a bad thing of course. And, uh, Morgoth isn't really their lord.
Heh, that makes me think of a little conversation between Padme and Anakin. It makes me curious if I'd consistently see them as a parallel to Galadriel and Saur -- oops, I mean Halbrand as a turned-Jedi.
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Yistaan
The Shire
Sep 27 2022, 8:30pm
Post #12 of 13
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Galadriel: Look at them. They're frightened. I can see it in their eyes. And they should be. One hundred… against ten thousand! They cannot win this fight. They are all going to die!
Halbrand: And they shall die for defying their lord!
Galadriel: ...
Halbrand: Um, I mean that's a bad thing of course. And, uh, Morgoth isn't really their lord. Heh, that makes me think of a little conversation between Padme and Anakin. It makes me curious if I'd consistently see them as a parallel to Galadriel and Saur -- oops, I mean Halbrand as a turned-Jedi.
Bronwyn: My husband turned against me. Don't you turn against me!
Arondir: I don't know you anymore! Bronwyn...you're breaking my heart! You're going down a path I can't follow!
Bronwyn: Because I'm not an elf?
Arondir: Because of what you've done! What you plan to do! Stop! Stop now... come back! I love you!
Bronwyn: [sees Galadriel's Numenorean army behind Arondir] LIAR!
Arondir: [looks back and sees Numenorean army, then turns back to Bronwyn; horrified] NO!
Bronwyn: You're with them! You brought them here to kill me!!
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Eldy
Tol Eressea
Sep 28 2022, 1:58am
Post #13 of 13
(220 views)
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