Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: TV Discussion: The Rings of Power:
New Promo Clip

Arannir
Valinor


Aug 15, 4:43pm

Post #1 of 22 (560 views)
Shortcut
New Promo Clip Can't Post

There have been many short promo videos the last few days. But this one has the most new dialogue and footage.

https://twitter.com/...7BOcr8w4c_Q&s=19

(In several interviews people said there was no romance there. Just adding this because the clip makes it look like there could be one.)



"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Narvi
Lorien

Aug 15, 5:16pm

Post #2 of 22 (526 views)
Shortcut
Another! [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's one with some incredible shots of Numenorean ships under sail and snippets from interviews with the cast:

https://fb.watch/eWdVokcwyL/


Furcorn
The Shire

Aug 15, 10:44pm

Post #3 of 22 (436 views)
Shortcut
Fail [In reply to] Can't Post

I cannot believe what a dumpster fire this is turning out to be. I will watch to see some name dropping and beloved snippets, but OMG this looks like an epic fail of wokeness.


skyofcoffeebeans
Lorien

Aug 16, 1:01am

Post #4 of 22 (408 views)
Shortcut
“Trolls are slow in the uptake, [In reply to] Can't Post

and mighty suspicious about anything new to them.”


Silvered-glass
Rivendell

Aug 16, 7:19am

Post #5 of 22 (364 views)
Shortcut
Sounds Really Bad [In reply to] Can't Post

The pretty backgrounds cannot hide that the dialogue is so very bad in both content and delivery. This all is shaping up to be a colossal waste of money for Amazon unless they were aiming for some Producers type scheme with their choice of inexperienced showrunners.


Silvered-glass
Rivendell

Aug 16, 8:49am

Post #6 of 22 (345 views)
Shortcut
Closer Analysis [In reply to] Can't Post

"Name thyself."

If that line is meant to be addressed to both Galadriel and Halbrand, it is grammatically incorrect to use the singular version of you. Also, it makes no sense for familiar speech to be used in this situation unless it's supposed to be a deliberate insult. Tolkien avoided using that archaic style in LotR because most modern readers wouldn't understand the nuance or the grammar aspects.

"daughter of the Golden House"

Could it be that they don't have the rights to say "daughter of Finarfin"? Or would mentioning Finarfin be too much patriarchy for this show? Or do the showrunners think that the audience would be confused by too many Elvish names and Finarfin's can be omitted since he isn't a character that appears in the show?

"Golden House" clearly comes from the mention of the "golden house of Finarfin" in the Appendices, but in the show it seems to have become a proper name written with capitals.

"commander of the armies of Gil-galad"

Back when Arwen usurped Glorfindel's role there was so much fan opposition for much less reason. This is like that time but far worse and lacking a compelling story reason.

"Halbrand."

That's just terrible dialogue that doesn't fit the situation unless the scene in the clip has been cut down or stitched together from multiple different scenes. Sauron should be more silver-tongued than that, and even if Halbrand isn't Sauron, he still should have the brains to say something normal like "Halbrand son of X from the land of Y", unless he's supposed to be a joke character, which doesn't sound good either.

Then there's some generic romantic tension.


Stranger Wings
Rivendell


Aug 16, 1:30pm

Post #7 of 22 (310 views)
Shortcut
Odd assumptions [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"Name thyself."

If that line is meant to be addressed to both Galadriel and Halbrand, it is grammatically incorrect to use the singular version of you. Also, it makes no sense for familiar speech to be used in this situation unless it's supposed to be a deliberate insult. Tolkien avoided using that archaic style in LotR because most modern readers wouldn't understand the nuance or the grammar aspects.

"daughter of the Golden House"

Could it be that they don't have the rights to say "daughter of Finarfin"? Or would mentioning Finarfin be too much patriarchy for this show? Or do the showrunners think that the audience would be confused by too many Elvish names and Finarfin's can be omitted since he isn't a character that appears in the show?

"Golden House" clearly comes from the mention of the "golden house of Finarfin" in the Appendices, but in the show it seems to have become a proper name written with capitals.

"commander of the armies of Gil-galad"

Back when Arwen usurped Glorfindel's role there was so much fan opposition for much less reason. This is like that time but far worse and lacking a compelling story reason.

"Halbrand."

That's just terrible dialogue that doesn't fit the situation unless the scene in the clip has been cut down or stitched together from multiple different scenes. Sauron should be more silver-tongued than that, and even if Halbrand isn't Sauron, he still should have the brains to say something normal like "Halbrand son of X from the land of Y", unless he's supposed to be a joke character, which doesn't sound good either.

Then there's some generic romantic tension.


1. Why would anyone assume that “name thyself” refers to two people? I’m sure the writers are aware of the difference between self and selves…

2. Re: the Golden House bit, I thought the exact thing you did. But I doubt the Estate wouldn’t let them use Finarfin’s name. It’s possible the dialogue has been cut, of course, as this is a rapid-fire promo clip and not the full scene…

3. How do we know there is no compelling story reason for Galadriel to be commander of Gil-Galad’s forces? Unlike with the Arwen replacing Glofindel scene, we haven’t seen any of the context yet.

4. First, how is one proper noun bad dialogue? Second, I think it’s safe to assume (unlike these other assumptions) that the scene and dialogue in question is heavily abridged/ cut/ whatever. This whole “Galadriel and Halbrand facing questions/ judgment before the court” scene looks like it could be a long, tense, 10-minute type scene. Here we have the 5-second version.

“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul


Narvi
Lorien

Aug 16, 1:55pm

Post #8 of 22 (300 views)
Shortcut
Possible solutions [In reply to] Can't Post

1.) I agree, we don't know that Elendil is actually addressing both Galadriel and Halbrand simultaneously. Presumably he queries each in turn. The way it's cut in the trailer appears to be an intervention by the marketing team. Not that the archaic use of sg. thy/thine/thou isn't abused in genre pieces all the time. Still, I would expect better from McPayne.

2.) Shifting from patronym to a slightly broader tribal affiliation allows the showrunners to identify the lineage as a political entity. It also facilitates affiliation of multiple characters to this entity, in this case Gil-galad and Galadriel. While the latter may claim to be a daughter of Finarfin, the former may not. Hence the simplification. It's not ideal, but it's far from a major change.

3.) It's interesting to see that Gil-galad steers this ship rather than Galadriel. I'm opposed to the subordination, but I suppose that it comports with Galadriel's characterization as a younger, more vigorous pursuer of evil. I wonder if the generational gap between the two will be addressed at all.

4.) The clip does seem heavily edited for comedic(?) effect, but I assume his demeanor and delivery will be consistent in the rest of the scene. He still seems just another powerhungry rebel to me rather than a future Dark Lord. As others have said, prime wraith-material.


Silvered-glass
Rivendell

Aug 16, 3:27pm

Post #9 of 22 (285 views)
Shortcut
Based on the Clip [In reply to] Can't Post

I know promotional clips can mislead, but as we don't have the real version of the scene, the clip is our only source on what happens.


In Reply To
1. Why would anyone assume that “name thyself” refers to two people? I’m sure the writers are aware of the difference between self and selves…


The scene in the clip plays out as if both Galadriel and Halbrand are being addressed. It wouldn't be the first time for a contemporary person to get archaic pronouns badly wrong. It is possible that a screenwriter wrote "thyselves" in an attempt at elevated diction and was later corrected by a proofreader into "thyself" without consideration for the number of people being addressed.

I kind of don't get a very competent sense from this production.


In Reply To
2. Re: the Golden House bit, I thought the exact thing you did. But I doubt the Estate wouldn’t let them use Finarfin’s name. It’s possible the dialogue has been cut, of course, as this is a rapid-fire promo clip and not the full scene…


Finarfin is mentioned in the Appendices, so using the name in isolation should be fine. However I can't remember out of hand if Galadriel being Finarfin's daughter is there.


In Reply To
3. How do we know there is no compelling story reason for Galadriel to be commander of Gil-Galad’s forces? Unlike with the Arwen replacing Glofindel scene, we haven’t seen any of the context yet.


Gil-galad should be commanding his own forces. He didn't stay behind when fighting in the Last Alliance, and the story is close to that point in the Amazon timeline.

Sure excuses can be invented. Arwen's presence at the Ford also had an excuse. It was probably a much better excuse than any the screenwriters will be able to invent for Galadriel.


In Reply To
4. First, how is one proper noun bad dialogue? Second, I think it’s safe to assume (unlike these other assumptions) that the scene and dialogue in question is heavily abridged/ cut/ whatever. This whole “Galadriel and Halbrand facing questions/ judgment before the court” scene looks like it could be a long, tense, 10-minute type scene. Here we have the 5-second version.


In the context of the clip a one-word reply is bad dialogue. Sure the real scene is likely to be much longer, but I'm not sure if Halbrand's real reply is, and if a short clip chosen for promotional purposes has notably bad dialogue, it doesn't speak well of the general level that can be expected of the real thing. Presumably the promoters would have wanted to use a clip with good dialogue, but maybe there isn't any to be had.

By the way, I'm already gaining a strong dislike of Halbrand. Yes, he is very likely to be a villain, but romantic tension with Galadriel doesn't work if he comes across as too smarmy. It also makes Galadriel seem blind. And if he's Sauron in disguise, his performance is just tragic in a bad way.

Galadriel is more tolerable but lacks anything like a proper presence. She somewhat reminds me of an older and much less cheerful version of Gabrielle from Xena: Warrior Princess, but I'm pretty sure Gabrielle had more charisma.


Stranger Wings
Rivendell


Aug 16, 8:09pm

Post #10 of 22 (249 views)
Shortcut
Wait… [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I know promotional clips can mislead, but as we don't have the real version of the scene, the clip is our only source on what happens.


In Reply To
1. Why would anyone assume that “name thyself” refers to two people? I’m sure the writers are aware of the difference between self and selves…


The scene in the clip plays out as if both Galadriel and Halbrand are being addressed. It wouldn't be the first time for a contemporary person to get archaic pronouns badly wrong. It is possible that a screenwriter wrote "thyselves" in an attempt at elevated diction and was later corrected by a proofreader into "thyself" without consideration for the number of people being addressed.

I kind of don't get a very competent sense from this production.


In Reply To
2. Re: the Golden House bit, I thought the exact thing you did. But I doubt the Estate wouldn’t let them use Finarfin’s name. It’s possible the dialogue has been cut, of course, as this is a rapid-fire promo clip and not the full scene…


Finarfin is mentioned in the Appendices, so using the name in isolation should be fine. However I can't remember out of hand if Galadriel being Finarfin's daughter is there.


In Reply To
3. How do we know there is no compelling story reason for Galadriel to be commander of Gil-Galad’s forces? Unlike with the Arwen replacing Glofindel scene, we haven’t seen any of the context yet.


Gil-galad should be commanding his own forces. He didn't stay behind when fighting in the Last Alliance, and the story is close to that point in the Amazon timeline.

Sure excuses can be invented. Arwen's presence at the Ford also had an excuse. It was probably a much better excuse than any the screenwriters will be able to invent for Galadriel.


In Reply To
4. First, how is one proper noun bad dialogue? Second, I think it’s safe to assume (unlike these other assumptions) that the scene and dialogue in question is heavily abridged/ cut/ whatever. This whole “Galadriel and Halbrand facing questions/ judgment before the court” scene looks like it could be a long, tense, 10-minute type scene. Here we have the 5-second version.


In the context of the clip a one-word reply is bad dialogue. Sure the real scene is likely to be much longer, but I'm not sure if Halbrand's real reply is, and if a short clip chosen for promotional purposes has notably bad dialogue, it doesn't speak well of the general level that can be expected of the real thing. Presumably the promoters would have wanted to use a clip with good dialogue, but maybe there isn't any to be had.

By the way, I'm already gaining a strong dislike of Halbrand. Yes, he is very likely to be a villain, but romantic tension with Galadriel doesn't work if he comes across as too smarmy. It also makes Galadriel seem blind. And if he's Sauron in disguise, his performance is just tragic in a bad way.

Galadriel is more tolerable but lacks anything like a proper presence. She somewhat reminds me of an older and much less cheerful version of Gabrielle from Xena: Warrior Princess, but I'm pretty sure Gabrielle had more charisma.


…what romantic tension with Galadriel?

“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul


Silvered-glass
Rivendell

Aug 16, 8:40pm

Post #11 of 22 (237 views)
Shortcut
Romantic Tension [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
…what romantic tension with Galadriel?


That clip is clearly teasing a "will they or won't they?" relationship between Halbrand and Galadriel, at least until Halbrand's evil is revealed.


Arannir
Valinor


Aug 16, 9:09pm

Post #12 of 22 (229 views)
Shortcut
No. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
…what romantic tension with Galadriel?


That clip is clearly teasing a "will they or won't they?" relationship between Halbrand and Galadriel, at least until Halbrand's evil is revealed.


They are exchanging the dagger. Probably has something to do with other scenes in which we can see Galadriel hiding from Numenorean guards.



"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Stranger Wings
Rivendell


Aug 16, 9:35pm

Post #13 of 22 (219 views)
Shortcut
No [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
…what romantic tension with Galadriel?


That clip is clearly teasing a "will they or won't they?" relationship between Halbrand and Galadriel, at least until Halbrand's evil is revealed.


It's not clearly doing any such thing. Unless most "will they or won't theys" involve the exchange of dangerous weaponry.

“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 16, 9:38pm

Post #14 of 22 (215 views)
Shortcut
It's another product of the marketing department editing [In reply to] Can't Post

The clip certainly makes it seem like there is some kind of romantic tension between them. I don't believe that is an accurate presentation of what the show will actually show.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Arannir
Valinor


Aug 16, 9:41pm

Post #15 of 22 (213 views)
Shortcut
New Clip with Adar [In reply to] Can't Post

https://www.reddit.com/...amp;utm_source=share

And another view of the ship explosion.



"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Stranger Wings
Rivendell


Aug 16, 9:52pm

Post #16 of 22 (204 views)
Shortcut
Love the music in that one [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
https://www.reddit.com/...amp;utm_source=share

And another view of the ship explosion.


That chanting is...fire, as the kid's say.

I have to say that I'm very intrigued by Adar, not least as I think Mawle is a fantastic actor. My hope against hope is that he's Maglor post-singing laments days, and that there's some father-adopted son drama between him and Elrond (as well as visceral tension between him and Galadriel, for obvious reasons).

“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul

(This post was edited by Stranger Wings on Aug 16, 9:52pm)


Arannir
Valinor


Aug 16, 10:33pm

Post #17 of 22 (196 views)
Shortcut
New Galadriel clip [In reply to] Can't Post

https://twitter.com/...gkZdBLvl0pQ&s=19



"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Stranger Wings
Rivendell


Aug 16, 10:36pm

Post #18 of 22 (192 views)
Shortcut
Galadriel and Elrond [In reply to] Can't Post

Have to say that sassy Elrond is the best Elrond.

“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul


Silvered-glass
Rivendell

Aug 17, 9:35am

Post #19 of 22 (137 views)
Shortcut
New Dialogue [In reply to] Can't Post

"Galadriel, Commander of the Northern Armies. I half expected you to arrive caked in mud."

"This time frostbite. And troll blood."

The dialogue is so bad and feels nothing like Tolkien. Also, was Galadriel really unable to wash herself on what should have been a long journey between the frozen North and the non-frozen Lindon or wherever they are?


Archestratie
Lorien


Aug 17, 10:07am

Post #20 of 22 (131 views)
Shortcut
Hmm [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The clip certainly makes it seem like there is some kind of romantic tension between them. I don't believe that is an accurate presentation of what the show will actually show.


There's definitely tension. I don't know if it's romantic, though. It could be racial. The way he exposes her ears on the raft has a tone of condescension.

My Low-Magic Fantasy Novel on eBook/hardback: The Huntsman and the She-Wolf

The Huntsman and the She-Wolf on audio Book.


Arannir
Valinor


Aug 17, 10:59am

Post #21 of 22 (120 views)
Shortcut
I... [In reply to] Can't Post

... liked most of what we heard so far. But this dialogue isn't good.

However, I hardly think the comment about being dirty is meant literally. It is meant to be tongue in cheek. I just don't think it fits with most of what we heard so far. Especially the dialogue they wrote in meter.



"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien

We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.



Stranger Wings
Rivendell


Aug 17, 12:03pm

Post #22 of 22 (111 views)
Shortcut
I liked it OK. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... liked most of what we heard so far. But this dialogue isn't good.

However, I hardly think the comment about being dirty is meant literally. It is meant to be tongue in cheek. I just don't think it fits with most of what we heard so far. Especially the dialogue they wrote in meter.


It's a meeting among friends, and it works as a light-hearted chat (it gets tiring to listen to elves proclaiming doom all the time - Tolkien also gave them a playful and mischievous air). "Commander of the northern armies," and "frostbite and troll blood" is not extraordinarily un-Tolkien either.

It's not brilliant dialogue, but neither is "meat's back on the menu boys," "nobody tosses a dwarf," "toss me," "I’m wasted on cross-country. We Dwarves are natural sprinters! Very dangerous over short distances," "He needs elvish medicine," "I gave you the chance of aiding me willingly, but you have elected the way of pain!” “A diversion!” “Let us hunt some orc.”

Lastly, given that this is a long-form TV show wherein we will be seeing very extended conversations between characters (as opposed to the rather quick exchanges in LOTR and TH), I think we're going to have to get used to a very different pace and tone. Particularly among the elves. These were largely very formal, statuesque characters in the film that will need to become relatable main characters over the course of 80 hours of television.

Either we'll have to accept a lot more informality in elvendom, or decry the decision by the showrunners to have elves be main characters.

“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul

(This post was edited by Stranger Wings on Aug 17, 12:10pm)

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.