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Arannir
Valinor
Aug 12 2022, 5:51am
Post #1 of 9
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Numenor Impressions / Design choices
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https://www.aboutamazon.com/...rings-numenor-images
This is an article with some very beautiful shots of Numenor and explanation what Mediterranean cooling systems, Venice and the Crown of Gondor have to to with their design choices for the island.
It also mentions the inclusion of older Elvish structures now replaced by a new style created by Men.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Aug 12 2022, 5:57am)
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Arannir
Valinor
Aug 12 2022, 8:38am
Post #2 of 9
(524 views)
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One addition: purposeful detail is the key word here.
Cluttering the screen can look nice at first but hollow afterwards. Just pretense. This text sounds like there is a purpose to the details and clutter. There is a reason why that stuff is there, why the houses are build a certain way, there was some thought about why architecture might look a certain way, how heating might function etc.
Encouraging.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Aug 12 2022, 8:39am)
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Stranger Wings
Rivendell
Aug 12 2022, 8:43am
Post #3 of 9
(522 views)
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https://www.aboutamazon.com/...rings-numenor-images This is an article with some very beautiful shots of Numenor and explanation what Mediterranean cooling systems, Venice and the Crown of Gondor have to to with their design choices for the island. It also mentions the inclusion of older Elvish structures now replaced by a new style created by Men.
…is some of the most detailed and impressive production design we have yet seen in interpretations of Tolkien. Armenelos rivals Edoras in its historical depth (which is my favorite of PJ’s creations), and looks very appropriately like the spiritual ancestor of Minas Tirith. My favorite is what looks like a mural depicting a procession of the Numenorean kings and queens, in the style of the Byzantine mosaics lining the upper walls of the Basilica di San Vitale in Ravenna (along the ship-prow battlements). Then I love the North African and southern Sicilian character of a lot of the Mannish structures, both the palaces and the humbler dwellings by the rivers. Some buildings even echo, in shape and color, some Mughal architecture I’ve seen in northern India. Not to mention the great detail of the elven architecture being slowly swallowed up. And it looks like a proper ancient city that’s been built up without a clear plan over centuries, like barnacles collecting on a rock. Organic. Styles on top of styles on top of styles. And the geography looks a lot like the southern Italian coast to me (there are even terraced hills in the background - an answer to the complaint that there was no farmland outside Mina’s Tirith?) Wonder where the hills and such were shot. I assume they are composited in, but there’s definitely a strong southern Med vibe there. Love the colors too - white, blues, golds, and touches of other colors that don’t neatly fit the color scheme, just like a proper ancient city. And the roof of the court building! Beautiful. Seems almost iridescent.
This is wonderful. Almost a shame that we have to eventually watch it all plunge into the sea!
“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul
(This post was edited by Stranger Wings on Aug 12 2022, 8:47am)
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Stranger Wings
Rivendell
Aug 12 2022, 12:43pm
Post #5 of 9
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It looks very nice in stills. I hope it looks just as good in 4k. At the very least, it does seem like they are being more intentional with set design and set dressing than Wheel of Time (which set an all time low for me in that department).
And it's not just intentionality. It's the sheer depth of design here, with layers of history clearly coming through. And as one who's obsessed with Byzantine history, I'm loving the clear reference to the Hagia Sophia, and the Byzantine mosaics of San Vitale in Ravenna. These historical flourishes are so much better than the fantasy-kitsch aesthetic of Wheel of Time.
“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul
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Narvi
Lorien
Aug 12 2022, 1:45pm
Post #6 of 9
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Some thoughts:
Like StrangerWings, I’m glad to see the Byzantine design elements we’ve seen elsewhere confirmed. The frieze of painted bas-reliefs (I don’t think it’s a mosaic or mural) reminds me of the grand procession depicted on the leading up to the Gate of All Nations at Persepolis and any number of Roman processional scenes.
The citadel itself resembles that of Minas Tirith in more ways than just the ship-bastion: the orientation of the rotunda structure with the nearby tower to the right and colonnaded, structure to the right, and terraced stairs to the lower city all closely mirror the layout of the Gondorian citadel as depicted in PJ’s films (check out the shots of the city from the rear in the beacon and funeral pyre scenes from RotK).
Speaking of callbacks: anyone recognize the sword gripped by the statue to the left of the ship-bastion? Do we think it will wind up as a genuine prop in the show, or will remain an Easter-egg?
I think we’ve only glimpsed one of Numenor’s cities so far. Various architectural elements link all the stills and short clips from different perspectives together. I assume it’s Armenelos, and it may well be that the capital will be combined with the harbor at Romenna. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if we learn that Armenelos is actually still quite far inland. The river that flows through it is equipped with locks (you can see one to the left of the waterfall) and suggests that it could be navigable far into the interior. Apparently Andunie is maintained as a separate location.
Note the horse being loaded into the ship in the harbor scene! So much detail. I love this shot. The ships are beautiful and the quays bustling with life. You can even see Elendil’s men escorting Galadriel onto land at the end of the central dock.
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Stranger Wings
Rivendell
Aug 12 2022, 3:16pm
Post #7 of 9
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I don't believe all of Numenor will be compressed into one city, at least...
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Some thoughts:
Like StrangerWings, I’m glad to see the Byzantine design elements we’ve seen elsewhere confirmed. The frieze of painted bas-reliefs (I don’t think it’s a mosaic or mural) reminds me of the grand procession depicted on the leading up to the Gate of All Nations at Persepolis and any number of Roman processional scenes.
The citadel itself resembles that of Minas Tirith in more ways than just the ship-bastion: the orientation of the rotunda structure with the nearby tower to the right and colonnaded, structure to the right, and terraced stairs to the lower city all closely mirror the layout of the Gondorian citadel as depicted in PJ’s films (check out the shots of the city from the rear in the beacon and funeral pyre scenes from RotK).
Speaking of callbacks: anyone recognize the sword gripped by the statue to the left of the ship-bastion? Do we think it will wind up as a genuine prop in the show, or will remain an Easter-egg?
I think we’ve only glimpsed one of Numenor’s cities so far. Various architectural elements link all the stills and short clips from different perspectives together. I assume it’s Armenelos, and it may well be that the capital will be combined with the harbor at Romenna. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if we learn that Armenelos is actually still quite far inland. The river that flows through it is equipped with locks (you can see one to the left of the waterfall) and suggests that it could be navigable far into the interior. Apparently Andunie is maintained as a separate location.
Note the horse being loaded into the ship in the harbor scene! So much detail. I love this shot. The ships are beautiful and the quays bustling with life. You can even see Elendil’s men escorting Galadriel onto land at the end of the central dock.
...as Lloyd Owen mentioned that Elendil moves his family from the west, a bastion of the Faithful, to the capital city where they are a minor house. So I believe we will, at the very least, also see Andúnië.
“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul
(This post was edited by Stranger Wings on Aug 12 2022, 3:16pm)
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Narvi
Lorien
Aug 12 2022, 4:26pm
Post #8 of 9
(391 views)
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I'm interested in seeing how they choose to visually distinguish between the two Numenorean cities that we know will feature in the show. I expect that Andunie will consist of more elven-based architecture, but that puts it at risk of resembling Ost-in-Edhil. Perhaps more of a Venice-like city in a lagoon as suggested by the production designer, who, though he was meant to be describing the designs for Armenelos, may have had concept art for the southern port in mind. Show-Armenelos just doesn't scream Venice to me.
As far as other locations on Numenor that may find a place in the narrative of the show, I'd place my bet on the summit of Meneltarma. I doubt very much that we'll see a third city.
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Stranger Wings
Rivendell
Aug 13 2022, 5:21pm
Post #9 of 9
(275 views)
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I'm interested in seeing how they choose to visually distinguish between the two Numenorean cities that we know will feature in the show. I expect that Andunie will consist of more elven-based architecture, but that puts it at risk of resembling Ost-in-Edhil. Perhaps more of a Venice-like city in a lagoon as suggested by the production designer, who, though he was meant to be describing the designs for Armenelos, may have had concept art for the southern port in mind. Show-Armenelos just doesn't scream Venice to me.
As far as other locations on Numenor that may find a place in the narrative of the show, I'd place my bet on the summit of Meneltarma. I doubt very much that we'll see a third city.
As perhaps apart from elements that Venice borrowed from Constantinople, and the fact that there’s definitely some Byzantism in the Armenelos design, there really isn’t much of a Venice vibe in what I’ve seen.
Would be neat if the Venice parallels were more for Andunie, as you say, and it’s portrayed as a more humble city, with no gigantism in terms of statues and structures, that meanders along the water a bit, and with some elven touches here and there (perhaps on government buildings). That would be more satisfying in terms of showing a contrast between two Numenorean cities, and less confusing than having the elven elements be too overwhelming. No need to be too heavy-handed with that design language. They’re still human, after all.
“He went alone to look in Mirrormere.” - The Book of Mazarbul
(This post was edited by Stranger Wings on Aug 13 2022, 5:23pm)
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