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kathyrote
Lindon
May 19 2008, 3:52am
Post #1 of 23
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Wondering about the writing
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I have no doubt that visually we're all in for the motherload on Hobbit & the film to follow. But is there any info. yet on who will be writing on these films? If Peter Jackson is elsewhere working on Lovely Bones, etc. does that mean Fran Walsh and Phillipa Bowen won't be as available either? Lord I hope not. Their grasp of vernacular in LOTR scripts was so important. The LOTR writing elevated it from a great fantasy and visual to a movie worthy of all kinds of dramatic respect (and nominations). It brought those characters to life for us and kept them from being cute or purely fictional characters. Wow, think of the task of doing that for not one, but 13 dwarves !
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
May 19 2008, 3:58am
Post #2 of 23
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Also, a question about this comment:
The LOTR [film's] writing elevated it from a great fantasy and visual to a movie worthy of all kinds of dramatic respect (and nominations).
Is drama inherently superior to fantasy?
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us May 12-18 for "The King of the Golden Hall".
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kathyrote
Lindon
May 19 2008, 4:16am
Post #4 of 23
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I didn't say it very well. Sorry. I wanted to say that the combination of great fantasy and great drama was one of the many outstanding achievements of the LOTR team. Not that one form of story telling is superior to the other.
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
May 19 2008, 4:59am
Post #5 of 23
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I was carelessly misremembering Tolkien's comparison of fairy-story and tragedy, which I agree is not at all the inapt comparison I stated.
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us May 12-18 for "The King of the Golden Hall".
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
May 19 2008, 9:13am
Post #6 of 23
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of Walsh/Boyens and additional work by Jackson/del Toro will be working on this 2-film project :D We really lucked out there!!
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
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kathyrote
Lindon
May 19 2008, 1:34pm
Post #7 of 23
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Thanks for that good news. You're right - we lucked out for sure.
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Changeitminimally
Registered User
May 21 2008, 1:52pm
Post #8 of 23
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Will the original writing team return?
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To be honest, I was hoping that del Toro would have more of a hand with the script writing with less input from the original team. Now, I am in awe of the visual accomplishment that the filmmakers achieved with these three films. But with each installment of the LotR films, I felt they unnecessarily deviated from the story more and more in an effort to make the story mass marketable. I think it cost the films integrity and eliminated some of the major themes of Tolkien's work. The dialogue for Gimli, Merry, and Pippin was entirely 'cutsie" and written in a failed attempt to be comical. The death of Saruman in the extended version, and the entire ending of the book being eliminated from the film is a major flaw that is attributed to the script writers (unless the Producers made them do it, in which case I apologize).
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merklynn
Menegroth
May 21 2008, 6:44pm
Post #9 of 23
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I'd rather an experienced hand wrote the script than an inexperienced one
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By the same token, the experience that Fran, Phillipa and Peter had in making the LOTR, working on the scripts and subsequently revising, and cutting out scenes that they later found would be inappropriate make them for me better choices than anyone else. They had the first hand experience with the fan reactions to scenes like Arwen at Helm's Deep etc, and they made the adjustments. This time around, they go into scripting the Hobbit knowing what fans are demanding of them and knowing to treat the subject with great care. Trusting some new team that GDT might assemble might be a little harder, given that we at least know that this is the Walsh/Boyens second shot at this and they are vets in the LOTR universe now.
Also, as a fan of both the books and the films, I actually enjoyed the characterizations of Merry, Pippin, and Gimli in the films, and I think it was funny and enjoyable because of the quality and charms of the actors. Often I hear it stated here as if it is fact that these characters were a let down to all, but all I heard in the audience when watching these films at the theatre was laughter and applause in all the right places. I think they worked, even if they were portrayed a little dfifferently, they were still (for me) great characters.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
May 21 2008, 7:23pm
Post #10 of 23
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explaining their reasoning behind the changes, and admit they would do some of their adaptations differently if they could... like the changes in Faramir's characters. Fran Walsh says they'd have done it differently given what they know now, but so much had already been filmed that couldn't be changed. So I believe you're right in the fact that their experience in writing and in fan expectations will have them being as careful and worthy of the task as they possibly can. There's no doubt in my mind they honour Tolkien's works and strive to treat their adaptations with respect.
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
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Zmulady
Nargothrond
May 21 2008, 7:39pm
Post #11 of 23
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I think they could only get better at it. Just think of what they learned from writing LOTR. And with Phillipa on board I have no doubts it will be great and as true to the book as possible.
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Changeitminimally
Registered User
May 21 2008, 9:58pm
Post #12 of 23
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I'm glad you enjoyed the characterizations made by the script writers... I just prefer Tolkien's characterizations better. The strongest characters in the film are the one's that stay truest to the book. I agree having an accomplished team of writers is important, but for me the original team succumbed to dumbing down certain aspects of the book in an unnecessary attempt to make one of the most popular books of all time, more marketable.
The notion that we need to stick with these writers doesn't quite gel with me. del Toro was not a part of the last three films yet having seen his other work and the integrity and attention to detail he brings with him, I'm thrilled having him direct. Point being, I'm sure there are scores of writers with as much skill or more who could handle this task without uselessly switching plot details around, eliminating the end of the novel, or cheapen the characters as a whole.
As someone else on the thread did, I can just as easily cite personal experience with the audience having seen each film several times in the theater (sad, I know) and describing how any laughter present when Gimli says "Not the beard" or when Merry and Pippen prattle on was negligible or forced. Comedy is not the current script writers' strong suit, nor does it need to be. The material does not lend itself to prat falls and Abbot and Costello routines. Regardless, such an argument is flawed... unless we were in the same theater, I have no idea what your audience was like nor do you know mine (where the laughter was indeed minimal).
Look, the films were an artistic expression beyond anything I'm capable of and I loved them. I'm fine with the current writers... I just wish they would give their audience a little more respect and not make unnecessary changes.
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
May 21 2008, 10:10pm
Post #13 of 23
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What about Bombur falling on Thorin at Bilbo's door?
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We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us May 19-25 for "Helm's Deep".
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Changeitminimally
Registered User
May 21 2008, 11:22pm
Post #14 of 23
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A detail, not the underlying argument.
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Great! Put it in. But don't make it the character's reason for existing and especially don't add if it never happened.
By the way, did you recall that off the top of your head or are you busily scanning the first couple chapters of the novel?
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merklynn
Menegroth
May 21 2008, 11:57pm
Post #15 of 23
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N.E. Brigand is our resident expert...
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One of several. Just relax a little. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no right or wrong on how we view the movie adaptations.
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Changeitminimally
Registered User
May 22 2008, 12:01am
Post #16 of 23
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I'm sorry if I came across harshly. I was simply responding in kind.
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Peredhil lover
Doriath
May 22 2008, 4:57am
Post #17 of 23
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they mentioned somewhere that part of the problem was that the script originally was meant for two movies and they had to rewrite it completely. And they changed the script during filming permanently and mainly back nearer to the book. I think now that they don't have to rewrite it so massive at the last moment and know better what works with the fans, there's not much need for worry.
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
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grammaboodawg
Elvenhome
May 22 2008, 9:31am
Post #18 of 23
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I'd forgotten about that! Can you imagine the frantic work they went through to get things ready? That's a very good point, Peredhil lover :)
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
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ROD BAGGINS
Registered User
May 23 2008, 1:18pm
Post #19 of 23
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Hindsight can be a wonderful thing
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Because it allows the studios to have much more faith in and willingness to finance The Hobbit, to trust the filmmakers involved because it has been proven by Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, Phillipa Boyens and the rest of the team that Tolkien's work can be adapted to film successfully.
The writers have learnt from their mistakes and their successes which will give them much more confidence in their ability to adapt The Hobbit. The companion film is where they will probably encounter a harder test. But I have confidence in their abilities.
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Earl
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
May 23 2008, 5:41pm
Post #21 of 23
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Hindsight also teaches the filmmakers to have more faith in the source material and more trust in us fans to accept Tolkien's works for all its childish humour and its gritty realities.
It will serve them very well I think, not just for The Hobbit, but for the companion film as well, which is the place they need this assurance from our side.
Crows and Gibbets! What is The House Of Eorl but a thatched barn where brigands drink in the reek, and their brats roll around on the floor with their dogs! You are but a lesser son of greater Sires.
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mae govannen
Dor-Lomin
May 24 2008, 4:42pm
Post #22 of 23
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'There won't be a Shire, Pippin.' How "cutsie"!... //
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'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Dor-Lomin
May 24 2008, 5:02pm
Post #23 of 23
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The above line from me was in reply to Changeitminimally
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who said all the dialogue given to some of the characters (that he named, and Merry was one of them) was absolutely "cutsie".
My few words quoted in answer come up so far from that post from Changeitminimally that, now out of context, they might look strange and mysterious, sorry for that!...
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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