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Darkstone
Immortal
Mar 13 2009, 5:30pm
Post #1 of 15
(2234 views)
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The Poetry of JRR Tolkien: Cat - Part 1: The Poem
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The fat cat on the mat
may seem to dream
of nice mice that suffice
for him, or cream;
but he free, maybe,
walks in thought
unbowed, proud, where loud
roared and fought
his kin, lean and slim,
or deep in den
in the East feasted on beasts
and tender men.
The giant lion with iron
claw in paw,
and huge ruthless tooth
in gory jaw;
the pard dark-starred,*
fleet upon feet,
that oft soft from aloft
leaps upon his meat
where woods loom in gloom --
far now they be,
fierce and free,
and tamed is he;
but fat cat on the mat
kept as a pet
he does not forget.
-- J. R. R. Tolkien, Cat, published 1962
(* “the pard” refers to a leopard, thus “dark-starred” refers to the leopard’s spots.
- Darkstone)
What do you think the poem is about? Is it just about a fat cat on the mat?
What do you think is the significance of the internal rhymes? Is “internal” part of the theme?
“Fat cat on the mat” seems a cliché. Why would Tolkien use a cliché as the main imagery in his poem?
The poem is only two sentences long. Each sentence is made up of two independent clauses. The phrase “the fat cat on the mat” is used twice. Is this duality significant?
Is the poem just about the cat, or is it also about the writer, the reader, Man, the world, and/or God?
What rhymes do you find especially delightful? I like the subtle rhyme of “giant” and “lion”. I also really like the visual rhyme of “lion” and “iron”.
Why so many commas? Does the rhythm of the poem suggest the movement of a cat? A big cat or a little cat? Does it ever pause mid-step like a cat?
Is the poem better when read aloud? What sounds stand out? Does anything in the poem’s rhyme or rhythm sound like a cat? What do the sounds and rhythms add to the theme of the poem?
Is this poem for children or adults? Or are there different levels for both?
Is this bad poetry?
Any other comments on the poem?
Tomorrow: "Cat - Part 2: The LOTR Connection".
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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sherlock
Gondor
Mar 13 2009, 6:09pm
Post #2 of 15
(2017 views)
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my brain hurts! 
I really like the poem, though, and happy birthday!
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batik
Tol Eressea
Mar 13 2009, 6:12pm
Post #3 of 15
(1993 views)
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Dreamdeer
Valinor
Mar 13 2009, 6:28pm
Post #4 of 15
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Tolkien seemed to like putting new spins on old cliches. In the context of this poem, with the repeated rhythms emphasizing the sound, "Fat cat on the mat" has a sort of spitting sound, like a testy cat remembering that he devolved from a lion.
As for symbolism, this might encompass the very essence of a hobbit! He might seem small and pudgy and domesticated, but don't forget, he's got lion medicine!
Life is beautiful and dangerous! Beware! Enjoy!
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Mar 13 2009, 9:35pm
Post #5 of 15
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As is my usual habit in the RR
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I won't really answer the questions, but just pop off with the first thing I think of.
I've been thinking a lot lately about the recent chimpanzee attack that was in the news, and what that says about humans as their nearest cousins. Kind of depressing. (Though my dad pointed out that bonobos are maybe our really nearest cousins, and they make love, not war.) Anyway, this poem kind of makes me think of that; buried under our most civilized exteriors may be a potential for violence that is appalling.
As far as cats go, one time Uncle Baggins had a dream that he was able magically to make peace in the Middle East. I said "Peace in the Middle East? I can't even make peace between my two cats."
Well, that's a cheery little post; sorry about that. I do actually love this poem, with all its internal rhymes. And maybe I'm jumping the gun on part 2, but I'm also reminded of the line about courage being buried inside the fatttest hobbit, or however it went.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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a.s.
Valinor
Mar 13 2009, 10:37pm
Post #6 of 15
(2012 views)
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It's Mythopoeia for cats, that's what it is
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What do you think the poem is about? Is it just about a fat cat on the mat?
It's Mythopoeia for cats, for comparison see:
Though now long estranged,
man is not wholly lost nor wholly changed.
Disgraced he may be, yet is not dethroned,
and keeps the rags of lordship one he owned,
....Yes! `wish-fulfilment dreams' we spin to cheat
our timid hearts and ugly Fact defeat!
It's a little cat having "wish-fulfilment dreams" of former lordship in the jungle.
What do you think is the significance of the internal rhymes? Is “internal” part of the theme?
Not sure of the significance, can only comment that I like this poem for the structure, which really seems to be the purpose of the poem: to "show off" the structure its made of!
“Fat cat on the mat” seems a cliché. Why would Tolkien use a cliché as the main imagery in his poem?
Maybe starting with a cliche is one way to show that there is always more to something than meets the eye. Start with what appears to be just a cliche and unravel it?
The poem is only two sentences long. Each sentence is made up of two independent clauses. The phrase “the fat cat on the mat” is used twice. Is this duality significant?
It wouldn't be Tolkien without dualities. (Also long sentences with clauses.) I mean, Sam and Frodo; The Old Forest and Lothlorien; Unexpected and Long Expected Parties, and etc. Light/shadow. Danger/Respite. That's Tolkien.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana
Call Her Emily
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Darkstone
Immortal
Mar 13 2009, 10:48pm
Post #7 of 15
(1998 views)
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Not sure of the significance, can only comment that I like this poem for the structure, which really seems to be the purpose of the poem: to "show off" the structure its made of!
And aren't cats known as show-offs?
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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weaver
Half-elven
Mar 14 2009, 4:24pm
Post #8 of 15
(1974 views)
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A few favorites:
"loom in gloom"
"Unbowed, proud, loud"
"feasted on beasts"
And then Tolkien throws in "lean and slim" -- now, I know he "could" have rhymed that, of course, but chose not to. Tricksy guy...
I am not someone who "gets" poetry much, in terms of what makes it work or why, or what makes it good or bad, so I'm feeling like a Deer in the Headlights when I consider your questions, but they do make me think!. The only one I'll tackle is to say that the poem fits with Tolkien-thought -- that what looks like a simple cat on a mat has links back to other days, and that understanding of where a cat, or a word comes from, gives you a fuller understanding of it.
I am glad you're doing this discussion as I do think Tolkien's poetry deserves a special spotlight, and would like to learn from those who have a more poetic bent than me about what makes Tolkien's poetry tick.
Thanks DS!
Weaver
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Mar 14 2009, 6:12pm
Post #9 of 15
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What is it about? Oh, about 27 lines and 111 words - a little over a drabble.
What I envision on reading this, is Tolkien sitting at his desk, late at night, getting bored with correcting papers, doodling on scraps of paper, and enjoying watching his cat twitch in her sleep. As she dreams, he reminisces about the lost joys of his youth, and perhaps the expectations of retirement to come. And his thoughts take word, and through his pen are transferred to the supposed desires of his feline companion.
Maybe!
Aren't those internal rhymes fun? They remind me of the alliteration in Old English poetry - which Tolkien does use here, with "deep in den", "fleet upon feet", "fierce and free".
How about that contrast: the man-eater versus the mice-eater! Tolkien does like his occasional bit of gore, does he not?
And I wouldn't call this the greatest poetry, but it is fun!
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"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Mar 15 2009, 5:03am
Post #10 of 15
(1985 views)
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you'll find most people don't feel compelled to answer all of them. Pick one or two that interest you, or just give us any additional thoughts on the poem you may have.
The Rohirrim, by Peter Xavier Price
Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'
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Curious
Half-elven
Mar 15 2009, 9:42am
Post #11 of 15
(1968 views)
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What do you think the poem is about? Is it just about a fat cat on the mat?
No, it's about us as well, for we are fat cats too. And it's about what Tolkien called Recovery, the realization that the world is not as tame or ordinary as we would like it to be.
What do you think is the significance of the internal rhymes? Is “internal” part of the theme?
I never thought about that. I just thought Tolkien liked internal rhymes in some of his poems, as in Errantry and Earendil the Mariner.
“Fat cat on the mat” seems a cliché. Why would Tolkien use a cliché as the main imagery in his poem?
For the reasons I noted in response to your first question.
The poem is only two sentences long. Each sentence is made up of two independent clauses. The phrase “the fat cat on the mat” is used twice. Is this duality significant?
The fat cat on the mat may seem to dream of nice mice that suffice for him,
or cream;
but he free,
maybe,
walks in thought unbowed,
proud,
where loud roared and fought his kin,
lean and slim,
or deep in den in the East feasted on beasts and tender men.
The giant lion with iron claw in paw,
and huge ruthless tooth in gory jaw;
the pard dark-starred,*
fleet upon feet,
that oft soft from aloft leaps upon his meat where woods loom in gloom --
far now they be,
fierce and free,
and tamed is he;
but fat cat on the mat kept as a pet he does not forget.
The two uses of "fat cat on the mat" bookend the rest of the poem, in which the cat dreams of lions and leopards. It's roughly symmetrical.
Is the poem just about the cat, or is it also about the writer, the reader, Man, the world, and/or God?
See my answer to your first question.
What rhymes do you find especially delightful? I like the subtle rhyme of “giant” and “lion”. I also really like the visual rhyme of “lion” and “iron”.
I like the assonance or repetition of vowel sounds in words that don't rhyme, like kin and slim, tender men, giant lion, huge ruthless tooth, pard dark-starred, woods loom.
Why so many commas? Does the rhythm of the poem suggest the movement of a cat? A big cat or a little cat? Does it ever pause mid-step like a cat?
I'm not sure it has anything to do with cats. Tolkien often uses commas to give his prose a poetic rhythm, as I've often noted by breaking up passages of prose into free verse. I've done the same with this poem above, and the structure looks familiar.
Is the poem better when read aloud? What sounds stand out? Does anything in the poem’s rhyme or rhythm sound like a cat? What do the sounds and rhythms add to the theme of the poem?
Aren't all poems better when read aloud? Speed readers may be able to avoid voicing what they read in their heads, because it slows them down, but what is the point of speed reading a poem? The whole point is to hear the poem, either by voicing it aloud or in your head.
Is this poem for children or adults? Or are there different levels for both?
Well, the cat is dreaming of man flesh, but the imagery is not gruesome. I think a child could handle it. In fact, with suitable illustrations this would make a terrific children's book. The metaphorical meaning of the poem may go over a child's head.
Is this bad poetry?
Like Tolkien's stories, the poem is very accessible, and almost childlike, but also has hidden meanings children would not grasp. I like that kind of poem myself, but I don't often see that kind of poem in the New Yorker. As I said, this poem would make a terrific children's book.
Any other comments on the poem?
No, but thanks for the post.
(This post was edited by Curious on Mar 15 2009, 9:44am)
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Wynnie
Rohan
Mar 15 2009, 6:02pm
Post #12 of 15
(1965 views)
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What do you think the poem is about? Is it just about a fat cat on the mat?
To put all these thoughts in a cat's head is surely anthropomorphizing. I think Tolkien's real subject is how ordinary, comfortable people maintain some connection to a distant heroic ancestry, using a domestic housecat's wild relatives as a parallel.
What do you think is the significance of the internal rhymes? Is “internal” part of the theme?
The whole poem seems like an experiment with rhyme and assonance, a word-lover playing with words.
“Fat cat on the mat” seems a cliché. Why would Tolkien use a cliché as the main imagery in his poem?
It's a very children's-book-ish phrase; reminds me of a cloth book my son had as a baby, full of "-at" rhymes. Not one of my favorite lines here.
The poem is only two sentences long. Each sentence is made up of two independent clauses. The phrase “the fat cat on the mat” is used twice. Is this duality significant?
However many lines, I like that it comes full circle -- begins and ends with the cat.
Is the poem just about the cat, or is it also about the writer, the reader, Man, the world, and/or God?
About Man? See my answer to your first question. About the writer? At least it shows that Tolkien as less of an ailurophobe than other passages in other books might suggest.
What rhymes do you find especially delightful? I like the subtle rhyme of “giant” and “lion”. I also really like the visual rhyme of “lion” and “iron”.
This makes me smile:
"in the East feasted on beasts
and tender men."
Ouch! But I guess that's a reaction to the image, more than the rhyme.
Why so many commas? Does the rhythm of the poem suggest the movement of a cat? A big cat or a little cat? Does it ever pause mid-step like a cat?
Are these questions or observations? Nice observations!
Is the poem better when read aloud? What sounds stand out? Does anything in the poem’s rhyme or rhythm sound like a cat? What do the sounds and rhythms add to the theme of the poem?
Yes, definitely better aloud, so you can stress the grand-sounding phrases associated with cat's grander cousins. "Unbowed, proud, where loud" does sound meow-ish, doesn't it?
Is this poem for children or adults? Or are there different levels for both?
Not unsuitable for children, not unenjoyable for adults.
Is this bad poetry?
Perhaps not great, but not bad either. I'd say pretty good for an amateur poet.
Any other comments on the poem?
It's interesting how the rhythmic pattern breaks near the end, switching from paired lines to triplets. I like this; it makes it seem that it's coming to a climax. I'm not, however, crazy about this final "he":
but fat cat on the mat
kept as a pet
he does not forget.
The clause already has a subject, doesn't seem to want the pronoun. Maybe it's there for emphasis, but it sounds a bit clumsy to me.
Thanks for leading a discussion on this!
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sador
Half-elven
Mar 16 2009, 9:37pm
Post #13 of 15
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Many happy returns of the day!
I'm very glad you did find the time for a week on Tolkien's poetry, despite what you wrote NEB previously; but as poetry is not something I relate to easily (although I did like the two or three poems by Conrad Aiken that I've read). So I'll just answer a couple of questions:
What do you think is the significance of the internal rhymes? Is “internal” part of the theme?
It gives the sense of a game rather than of a poem.
Is the poem just about the cat, or is it also about the writer, the reader, Man, the world, and/or God?
Now that's a thought! You know what? I'll contend it's a satire of the Church of England.
Is the poem better when read aloud? What sounds stand out? Does anything in the poem’s rhyme or rhythm sound like a cat? What do the sounds and rhythms add to the theme of the poem?
I do not know. But when read aloud, I feel "the huge ruthless tooth" is jarring - as if the poet ran out of rhymes.
"Half a sticky mile from here to the gate!" - Pippin
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Silvered-glass
Lorien
May 27 2022, 12:45pm
Post #14 of 15
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Did Neil Gaiman read this poem?
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What strikes me most about this poem is that I think I've read an expanded graphic novel version of it as a standalone chapter in Neil Gaiman's Sandman, "A Dream of a Thousand Cats".
It's a nice poem with a nice use of duality in content and structure, but it's unfortunate to me as a cat type person that Tolkien didn't appreciate how adorable cats are.
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ElanorTX
Tol Eressea
May 27 2022, 3:46pm
Post #15 of 15
(485 views)
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"I shall not wholly fail if anything can still grow fair in days to come."
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