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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
Jan 30 2022, 10:28pm
Post #1 of 13
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Aragorn (book vs film)...
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Hello, although I have read FOTR not too long ago, I can't remember this. In the books, was Aragorn ever an "exiled"? Wasn't that an invention by PJ? I seem to recall that in Tolkien's original, he always intended to take back the throne of Gondor. But I am not sure.
Anybody here knows?
(This post was edited by Paulo Gabriel on Jan 30 2022, 10:31pm)
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No One in Particular
Lorien
Jan 31 2022, 2:57am
Post #2 of 13
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was not exiled in the sense that he had sworn off reclaiming the kingship, as movie Aragorn seems to have done at the start of the Fellowship movie, nor had he been cast out from Dunedain society.
In the book he was laser focused on uniting the kingdoms because of the condition Elrond had set before he could marry Arwen. Elrond would only surrender her to the King of United Gondor and Arnor. (I very much imagine there were a hundred other reasons too, but that was waaay near the top of the list.  Had to be in the top five at least. )
The line of kings had ended in Arnor as it had in Gondor, so I guess you might consider him to be displaced in that sense, but I have never really though of him as such.
While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph
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Chen G.
Gondor
Jan 31 2022, 9:07am
Post #3 of 13
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There are several original elements involved with Jackson's Aragorn. One is that the people of Gondor know his name: Boromir just needs to be said his name is Aragorn, and Boromir intuits that "THIS is Isildur's heir?"
At the same time, Jackson (actually Fran Walsh) wanted to give him some sort of internal conflict, and so they made him a reluctant hero who's doubting his own claim to kingship.
Its not necessarily the most succesful internal conflict, but its something. I think its a choice that gets a lot of bad rep, but is actually more succesfull than not.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jan 31 2022, 3:00pm
Post #4 of 13
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The Dúnedain of the North-kingdoms were exiles in the sense that their kingdom had fallen and they were displaced. In that respect Aragorn might be considered a king-in-exile. No One isn't entirely correct. The line of the kings of Arnor had not ended as had the line of the kings of Gondor, but it had gone underground.
#FidelityToTolkien
#ChallengeExpectations
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 31 2022, 3:01pm)
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No One in Particular
Lorien
Feb 1 2022, 2:09am
Post #5 of 13
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I guess I'm thinking of the appendix when the professor said the North Kingdom ended.
While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 1 2022, 2:15am
Post #6 of 13
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...the kingdom of Arthedain ended. But the line of kings carried on.
#FidelityToTolkien
#ChallengeExpectations
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Feb 2 2022, 11:29pm
Post #7 of 13
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That was one of the points of the book dunedain.
[In reply to]
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Gondor was a kingdom without a king and Arnor was no kingdom but its line of kings survived.
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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
Feb 11 2022, 4:31pm
Post #8 of 13
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From you but also from all the others that followed. Thanks a lot!
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CMackintosh
Rivendell
Feb 20 2022, 5:26am
Post #9 of 13
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There are several original elements involved with Jackson's Aragorn. One is that the people of Gondor know his name: Boromir just needs to be said his name is Aragorn, and Boromir intuits that "THIS is Isildur's heir?"
At the same time, Jackson (actually Fran Walsh) wanted to give him some sort of internal conflict, and so they made him a reluctant hero who's doubting his own claim to kingship.
Its not necessarily the most succesful internal conflict, but its something. I think its a choice that gets a lot of bad rep, but is actually more succesfull than not. From my point of view, before Legolas came out with that declaration, that Boromir owed Aragorn his allegiance, he should've explained that Aragorn was the direct-in-line descendant of Isildur. So the movie failed for me there.
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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
Feb 20 2022, 10:53am
Post #10 of 13
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Didn't Boromir came to that conclusion himself, right after that?
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Elf_Maven
Bree
Feb 25 2022, 11:40pm
Post #11 of 13
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. . . and yet, I had never thought of it in such clear, inverted terms! Thank you for that simple explanation!
"Go where you must go, and hope!"
- Gandalf, TTT The White Rider
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uncle Iorlas
Rohan
Feb 26 2022, 4:46pm
Post #12 of 13
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This was something that really came home to me a few years back, trying to walk through what Gandalf's thought process may have been as he tried to grasp Sauron's plans from afar.
If you look at the map throughout the Third Age, there's a broad diagonal line between Gondor and Arnor where power is contested. Only after I started to see it did I run across confirmations in the text: Gandalf's inspiration to look for Thorin specifically because he wants to block easy traffic between Mordor and Angmar, and a note that Galadriel's earlier choice to settle in Lothlorien was a deliberate move to open a passage between Moria and Dol Guldur.
And what started to dawn on me was that for Sauron, the pieces that mattered weren't so much nations and states, but heirs and bloodlines. The only force that's ever been able to beat him militarily is the Númenoreans. And they do so pretty consistently, and decisively! The Númenoreans clobbered Sauron at the height of his power. There's just something about them that he can't handle.
But a Númenorean army is a fussy weapon. It has to be set up properly or it doesn't work. It requires a king, a proper king with the bestest bloodline, but not just that; there also needs to be a significant kingdom with pomp and circumstance, with a throne and a scepter all very nice, and the king has to be hooked up to that station of grandeur. Then it'll run right, and it can beat Sauron. So that is the thing he's laser-focused on preventing. The Witch King managed to wear down, corrupt, balkanize and finally dissolve the north kingdom; meanwhile, also the Witch King I guess, managed to sucker the last viable southern king into walking to his death, so there's no correctly maintained Númenorean kingdom anywhere. But there's still a castle and a throne in the south, and Sauron never forgets for a second that he's not one hundred percent sure there isn't an heir kicking around somewhere in the north, and he expends vast amounts of attention and energy trying to wedge those two areas apart so they can never reuinfy. A concealed, surviving Aragorn landing on the throne in Gondor is *the* disaster scenario for Sauron, Ring or no Ring. And of course he assumes that if the good guys do cop hold of the Ring, it'll inevitably end up on the hand of just that heir anyway, if there is one.
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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
Mar 6 2022, 9:43pm
Post #13 of 13
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I quite enjoyed reading your explanation.
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