Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
How many wizards? "All wizards".
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Omnigeek
Lorien


Tue, 4:09pm

Post #26 of 31 (112 views)
Shortcut
"All" could easily refer to 5 or even 3 [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it was easier for Gandalf to refer to "all wizards", even for a small group, than to specify "the other four" or even mention Saruman specifically. I'm sure he felt Saruman in particular could use his own hobbit to quell his growing arrogance and faith in his own intelligence after the meetings of the White Council. Radagast too could have used a hobbit like Merry since he was so embedded with the animals that he seemed insensitive to the humanoids of Middle-earth.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Wed, 1:47am

Post #27 of 31 (107 views)
Shortcut
How large was the Order of the Itari? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I think it was easier for Gandalf to refer to "all wizards", even for a small group, than to specify "the other four" or even mention Saruman specifically. I'm sure he felt Saruman in particular could use his own hobbit to quell his growing arrogance and faith in his own intelligence after the meetings of the White Council. Radagast too could have used a hobbit like Merry since he was so embedded with the animals that he seemed insensitive to the humanoids of Middle-earth.


We can date references to a larger number of Istari to Tolkien's essay "The Istari" written in 1954 (according to Christopher Tolkien in Unfinished Tales), if not even to the "great council of the white wizards" referred to in The Hobbit. I have already noted that Tolkien eventually changed his mind about this, but I will once more repeat what he wrote in the essay:


Quote
Of this Order the number is unknown; but of those that came to the North of Middle-earth, where there was most hope (because of the remnant of the Dúnedain and of the Eldar that abode there), the chiefs were five.


So he at least briefly considered having more than five Istari come to Middle-earth, though the specific (or even an approximate) number was "unknown". The question remains as to whether there was an actual Order of the Istari extant in the Undying Lands, though I think not.

#FidelityToTolkien

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Wed, 1:52am)


Omnigeek
Lorien


Wed, 3:39am

Post #28 of 31 (95 views)
Shortcut
Wizards are Istari but are Istari Wizards [In reply to] Can't Post

I always considered "Wizards" to be only those Istari that came across to Middle-earth so while there a larger number of Istari, only 5 came across the ocean and became Wizards. I also considered the "great council of the white wizards" to be an elevated rather than numerous council -- plus the council included the Elves and Men the wizards drew together to combat the forces of Sauron. IMO, at the end of the day, one has to go with what Tolkien chose to publish over what he considered previously.


InTheChair
Lorien

Wed, 8:08pm

Post #29 of 31 (67 views)
Shortcut
Brown may have chosen for the same reason as Grey [In reply to] Can't Post

To indicate that Radagast, like Gandalf, was not about promoting himself.


Ettelewen
Rohan

Thu, 12:15am

Post #30 of 31 (57 views)
Shortcut
Yes, we don't see a "Red" Wizard, do we? [In reply to] Can't Post

The colors appear to reflect the nature of the being. Radagast the Brown is close to Earth and Nature. Gandalf the Grey works unobtrusively, behind the scenes, until he is resurrected as Gandalf the White.

I wonder what is the nature of the Blue Wizards?


Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Thu, 8:52am

Post #31 of 31 (35 views)
Shortcut
Yes, the Numenoreans could, thinking about it [In reply to] Can't Post

The walls of Orthanc could possibly be considered as magic in their impregnability. Actually I did think that in the Hobbit movies when Saruman said that the Necromancer was a man, that no-one would believe that, but thinking about it, the statement could fit, in particular in a Jackson version of ME .

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.