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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Melkor war against the Valar in The Battle of Powers

Victariongreyjoy
Lorien


Jul 18, 3:11pm

Post #1 of 7 (656 views)
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Melkor war against the Valar in The Battle of Powers Can't Post

We know orcs was him main conventional force of his army, but I doubt they can fight the gods, unless Morgoth enhanced their weapons so they can hurt the Valar. But what were his other forces? Maybe it was more a spiritual battle? Evil maiar turned into wraiths, phantoms and demons? Were trolls there too?


(This post was edited by Victariongreyjoy on Jul 18, 3:19pm)


Asger
Rivendell


Jul 22, 6:31pm

Post #2 of 7 (571 views)
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Well, he had orcs, of course... [In reply to] Can't Post

Lots of orcs... and he had at least one Balrog, Trolls galore, Boldogs (giant orcs with Maya-spirits), perverted Mayas of all kinds, armies of men, dragons on the ground and in the air, beasts of many kinds, vampires and bats, werewolves, wargs and wolves. I may have missed some...

"Don't take life seriously, it ain't nohow permanent!" Pogo
www.willy-centret.dk

(This post was edited by Asger on Jul 22, 6:34pm)


InTheChair
Lorien

Aug 7, 7:49pm

Post #3 of 7 (432 views)
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We don't know so. [In reply to] Can't Post

Even a Maiar might have his physical bodily representation poisoned. In theory. And there are snakes and insects that can kill a human of we don't get medical aid in time.

I don't know if the theory is ever tested though. Orcs would likely run away rather than face them. Since they have a measure of rationality. Indeed a great many of them ran away for Orcs to fight another age.


(This post was edited by InTheChair on Aug 7, 7:51pm)


Victariongreyjoy
Lorien


Aug 7, 10:47pm

Post #4 of 7 (422 views)
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Not the War of Wrath [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Lots of orcs... and he had at least one Balrog, Trolls galore, Boldogs (giant orcs with Maya-spirits), perverted Mayas of all kinds, armies of men, dragons on the ground and in the air, beasts of many kinds, vampires and bats, werewolves, wargs and wolves. I may have missed some...

But that was in the final battle of the first age. I'm talking about the battle before the time of the lamps and first age. When Morgoth resides in Utumno.


Victariongreyjoy
Lorien


Aug 7, 10:51pm

Post #5 of 7 (421 views)
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My idea of what army Morgoth had during the first battle with the Valar [In reply to] Can't Post

Conventional forces: Orcs and Trolls. These are corrupted version of elves and ents he captured.

Spiritual forces: wraiths, phantoms, troll-size insects, lizards, flying reptiles, boldog orcs, pre-balrogs. All of these are corrupted maiar.


Asger
Rivendell


Aug 8, 4:41am

Post #6 of 7 (402 views)
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Oh, you’re rigth, that’s quite another thing [In reply to] Can't Post

No orcs or trolls then. ‘Powers’ were strictly Mayar. I think Tolkien in HoME mentioned ‘Balrogs in the thousands’ including their greatest; Arien, their queen. I’m not even sure Sauron was on Morgoths side then, as he was of Aules train and might be corrupted later. But lots of powerful Mayar of whom most were killed in the battle. Later only seven or three Balrogs were mentioned.

"Don't take life seriously, it ain't nohow permanent!" Pogo
www.willy-centret.dk

(This post was edited by Asger on Aug 8, 4:43am)


InTheChair
Lorien

Aug 8, 2:04pm

Post #7 of 7 (370 views)
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Perhaps it wasn't even conceived in the terms of armies back then. [In reply to] Can't Post

Aha. I also thought of the War of wrath.

If you mean the earlier period before Morgoth was captured and brought as a prisoner to Valinor, then as Asger points out there would be no Orcs, since it would be before or to soon after either Elves or Men woke up.

I think it said that there were many spirits of the Ainur and Maiar that sided with Morgoth in the early days, and though we only get the names of those that would later achieve some measure of success and fame, I think it seems fairly clear most of those struggles were Ainu agains Ainu, or Maia against Maia.

That stuff is all pretty mythological anyway from the perspective of the Silmarillion, so I don't think it matters that much.


(This post was edited by InTheChair on Aug 8, 2:07pm)

 
 

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