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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
How does Celebrimbor get to Gondolin?

ange1e4e5
Gondor

Feb 4, 3:32pm

Post #1 of 11 (626 views)
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How does Celebrimbor get to Gondolin? Can't Post

So it's said that Celebrimbor journeys to Gondolin and dwells there until its fall. I have several questions about that:



When does he leave? He cannot reach Gondolin after F.A. 496 because that is when the hidden door is blocked.


If he leaves after the Fall of Nargothrond, how did he not encounter Tuor and Voronwe on the road?



Why would he be allowed entry into Gondolin?

I always follow my job through.

(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 4, 3:33pm)


Morthoron
Gondor


Feb 5, 1:26am

Post #2 of 11 (587 views)
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Inconclusive... [In reply to] Can't Post

The idea that Celebrimbor went to Gondolin was part of his story prior to Tolkien making him a Feanorean.

In his commentary for "Concerning Galadriel And Celeborn", Christopher Tolkien states:

Quote
"He is here said to have been one of the survivors of Gondolin, who had been among Turgon's greatest artificers; but the text is emended to the later story that made him a descendant of Feanor..."


And so, it is highly likely JRRT discarded the idea in his 2nd revision of Lord of the Rings; therefore, the Gondolin angle is a dead end with no further explication.

Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.



(This post was edited by Morthoron on Feb 5, 1:27am)


Elthir
Grey Havens


Feb 5, 4:26pm

Post #3 of 11 (553 views)
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Agreed. It's an external change. [In reply to] Can't Post

And Tolkien, perhaps in a fever of forgetfulness, unfortunately forgot that he himself had finally published the Feanorean fact,

. . . to add fire to any external folly.


ange1e4e5
Gondor

Feb 5, 8:46pm

Post #4 of 11 (537 views)
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So presuming he was forced to flee the Fall of Nargothrond, [In reply to] Can't Post

where does he go? He doesn't seem to have learned anything from Curufin (Curufin wasn't much of a craftsman anyway).

I always follow my job through.


Solicitr
Rohan


Feb 5, 9:30pm

Post #5 of 11 (528 views)
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Well, [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
where does he go? He doesn't seem to have learned anything from Curufin (Curufin wasn't much of a craftsman anyway).


The survivors of Gondolin went to the Mouths of Sirion. There they rode out the Second Kinslaying and the War of Wrath, and it's to be assumed Celebrimbor wound up in Lindon, until he headed east to Eregion around SA 750.


Morthoron
Gondor


Feb 6, 1:07am

Post #6 of 11 (510 views)
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Well.... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
where does he go? He doesn't seem to have learned anything from Curufin (Curufin wasn't much of a craftsman anyway).


As far as Curufin's abilities, he is described in The Silmarillion as being the most like his father Feanor in skills, mood, and appearance. So, by extension, Celebrimbor inherited the skillful traits, minus a bit of the arrogance.

As far as where he went? It's all conjecture, but if you follow the story without the Gondolin stop-over, after the Fall of Nargothrond and the Battle of Tumhalad, it is most probable he took the remnant of the Noldor to the coast, and stayed there until early in the 2nd Age (SA 750) when he and his followers crossed the Blue Mountains and founded Eregion to the west of Khazad -dum/Moria (and its mithril, which Celebrimbor prized).

Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.



(This post was edited by Morthoron on Feb 6, 1:09am)


ange1e4e5
Gondor

Feb 6, 1:40am

Post #7 of 11 (499 views)
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I haven't seen much of Curufin's resemblance to his father. [In reply to] Can't Post

Sure he may physically resemble him, but there doesn't seem to be much textual evidence about him in temperament or skills. He doesn't seem to have made anything great and he's quieter and more manipulative than Feanor was; it seems that Celegorm got Feanor's oratory skills and hot-headed personality.

I always follow my job through.


Elthir
Grey Havens


Feb 6, 5:10pm

Post #8 of 11 (474 views)
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It's in the name [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
"Kurufinwe -- Feanor's own name; given to this, his favorite son, because he alone showed in some degree the same temper and talents. He also resembled Feanor very much in face."

[Mother-name] Atarinke "little father" referring to his physical likeness to Feanor, later found to be also seen in his mind."


JRRT, late writings, The Shibboleth of Feanor


(This post was edited by Elthir on Feb 6, 5:14pm)


Ardamírë
Valinor


Feb 6, 5:58pm

Post #9 of 11 (462 views)
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I love these type of questions [In reply to] Can't Post

My head canon is that he came to the battle of unnumbered tears from Nargothrond and ended up leaving with Turgon’s warriors and heading to Gondolin.

Of course, as others have said, the “Celebrimbor in Gondolin” angle was probably dropped, but it’s not an impossible scenario. Smile

"Behold! the hope of Elvenland,
the fire of Fëanor, Light of Morn
before the sun and moon were born,
thus out of bondage came at last,
from iron to mortal hand it passed."
-The Lay of Leithian


Ardamírë
Valinor


Feb 6, 6:01pm

Post #10 of 11 (462 views)
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Gosh, I love the Shibboleth [In reply to] Can't Post

It has sooooo many little details like this that create depth in the sometimes overly general “Silmarillion” tradition (especially the published book).

"Behold! the hope of Elvenland,
the fire of Fëanor, Light of Morn
before the sun and moon were born,
thus out of bondage came at last,
from iron to mortal hand it passed."
-The Lay of Leithian


InTheChair
Lorien

Feb 8, 10:02am

Post #11 of 11 (394 views)
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It may seem peculiar that if he inherited his fathers skill as a craftsman he carries around a knife made by the dwarves. [In reply to] Can't Post

The seeming limitations of Curufin are probably just an effect of the scarcity of information. We are not told anything of Curufins doings in Valinor or Beleriand, except those that relate to the Oath, the Exodus of the Noldor and the Brothers interference in the Quest for the Silmaril. For the rest they are just swept along with the tides of war. No doubt he must have had skill in crafting things as most of the Noldor had.

When was Celebrimbor born? If he grew up in Valinor he may have learned his skill from his Grandfather himself.

 
 

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