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Eruonen
Half-elven
Nov 11 2019, 5:08pm
Post #1 of 22
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Watched the appendices again....I seem to enjoy more than the actual films.
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Nov 12 2019, 4:39pm
Post #2 of 22
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As has been discussed before, as you see how decisions were made under pressure
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I just wish PJ had someone around who had the guts to say...boss, that is a terrible idea. Or Philippa or Fran. At least they nixed his "Johnny Quest homage" with the reed basket spy.
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Silmaril
Rohan
Nov 13 2019, 10:19am
Post #3 of 22
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I just wish PJ had someone around who had the guts to say...boss, that is a terrible idea.
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Me too! In LOTR they had some bad ideas too (Eowyn in Helm's Deep, Sauron/Aragorn fight...) but luckily they discarded the most of it. The making Ofs of LOTR are amazing! There's a lot of talk about Tolkien and the book which is totally missing in the Hobbit specials, there's a lot of fill material instead.
(This post was edited by Silmaril on Nov 13 2019, 10:25am)
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Solicitr
Gondor
Nov 13 2019, 9:03pm
Post #4 of 22
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Me too! In LOTR they had some bad ideas too (Eowyn in Helm's Deep, Sauron/Aragorn fight...) but luckily they discarded the most of it. The making Ofs of LOTR are amazing! There's a lot of talk about Tolkien and the book which is totally missing in the Hobbit specials, there's a lot of fill material instead.
...the Company, on entering Lorien, being snatched up into the trees by unseen Elves. That scene was actually filmed! I just wish somebody could have persuaded him to let go of the Teetering Staircase in Moria, or the whole dumb Aragorn-off-the-Cliff episode.
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Nov 14 2019, 9:25pm
Post #5 of 22
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I suppose that the problem with the Wrags was
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That in the Fellowship the Wrag attack in the mountains before Moria was cut for whatever movie reason and that PJ wanted to put Wrags back in. Although i do agree that was a stupid way to do it. But could he have put them in anywhere else or just accepted that the Wrags in general would have to be cut altogether.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Nov 15 2019, 1:55am
Post #6 of 22
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The attack of the Warg-riders on the way to Helm's Deep was not necessarily a horrible idea by itself. What didn't work for me (besides the design of the Wargs) was the artificial drama of Aragorn's plunge off of the cliff.
#FidelityToTolkien
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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
Nov 15 2019, 5:52am
Post #7 of 22
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From what I've seen of the Hobbit Appendices, there is a lot of love for Tolkien. Purists seems to miss that, not saying you are one, but they usually do [that].
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Nov 16 2019, 10:35am
Post #8 of 22
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there were so many terrible ideas here, I find it impossible to believe that there was nobody who thought about saying something. I guess they were all too afraid to say anything for fear of PJ firing them. It's really a shame this turned out as it did.
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Noria
Gondor
Nov 16 2019, 3:55pm
Post #9 of 22
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Interesting - the appendices vs the movies themselves
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I enjoy all the commentaries and appendices for both trilogies tremendously – I’ve never seen anything like them elsewhere. But I certainly don’t like them more than any of the films themselves, either LotR or The Hobbit. That’s probably because I love TH movies almost as much as LoTR and so have fewer problems than others with the choices PJ made, maybe even fewer than I do with his LotR. Aside from different tones and the additional material in TH movies, I don’t see the two trilogies as so very different, both the good and the bad. Plus what we got in TH was more or less what I expected. I always supposed that there was less about Tolkien in The Hobbit EEs because there was considerable focus on him in the FotR appendices. LOL the Laketown basket cameo - I have wondered if it was meant to be a joke but if not, for me it wasn’t all that much worse than Pirates of the Anduin in RotK.
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Nov 17 2019, 12:43am
Post #10 of 22
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In the scene where he brings up the bunny sled the look on the faces is priceless
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but nobody says anything and they get on with it. I wonder if the fact everyone knew the production was under time pressure they just did not want to be seen as an obstacle.....though I have a feeling that absolutley PJ runs the show with only some input from Fran or Philippa being considered. His second directors, technical design people etc. just work to fulfill his vision. The go along to get along.
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Noria
Gondor
Nov 17 2019, 2:02pm
Post #11 of 22
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Yes, the incredulous looks when PJ brings up that idea are funny. It’s the job of everyone involved in any film production is make the director’s vision come to life, not to argue with him. PJ seems pretty genial and maybe there is more discussion, even push-back, than we see in the documentaries, but it also seems that he wants what he wants in his movies and gets it. Fran Walsh is his partner, co-producer and co-writer but in the end PJ is the director. Pretty well everyone else is an employee, though they all seem very loyal. As it happens I love the bunny sled and think it fits with the fantastical tone of the movie. But the Goblin King – ugh! Too silly even for me.
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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
Nov 18 2019, 7:07am
Post #12 of 22
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the Goblin King is very well done CGI.
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Noria
Gondor
Nov 18 2019, 2:54pm
Post #13 of 22
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Yes, the Goblin King CGI looks good
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Though I am not a connoisseur of such things. But for me the design of the Goblin King is too over-the-top gross and the performance is anachronistic - too contemporary somehow. I have no feelings about Barry Humphries one way or the other but clearly PJ is a big fan.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Nov 18 2019, 3:08pm
Post #14 of 22
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But for me the design of the Goblin King is too over-the-top gross and the performance is anachronistic - too contemporary somehow. I have no feelings about Barry Humphries one way or the other but clearly PJ is a big fan. Yeah, the Goblin King's number actually makes me think of King Herod's show-tune from Jesus Christ Superstar. It just seems very much out of place in Middle-earth. King Herod's Song
#FidelityToTolkien
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 18 2019, 3:10pm)
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Noria
Gondor
Nov 18 2019, 4:05pm
Post #15 of 22
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From what I recall of JCS, that's a good comparison.//
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Saruman
Bree
Nov 22 2019, 4:58pm
Post #16 of 22
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Me too! In LOTR they had some bad ideas too (Eowyn in Helm's Deep, Sauron/Aragorn fight...) but luckily they discarded the most of it. The making Ofs of LOTR are amazing! There's a lot of talk about Tolkien and the book which is totally missing in the Hobbit specials, there's a lot of fill material instead.
...the Company, on entering Lorien, being snatched up into the trees by unseen Elves. That scene was actually filmed! I just wish somebody could have persuaded him to let go of the Teetering Staircase in Moria, or the whole dumb Aragorn-off-the-Cliff episode. THIS! Those two parts in specific -- the teetering staircase and Aragorn off the cliff -- are two of my most loathed aspects of the trilogy.
"I have seen it..."
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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
Nov 23 2019, 5:46am
Post #17 of 22
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"Moria Orcs Swarming The Walls/Tottering Stair scenes in FOTR-M".?
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Nov 24 2019, 11:42am
Post #18 of 22
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and the bottom line for just about all involved is that this was just another paycheck. The production was running behind schedule, PJ was obviously stressed over it, and regardless of how the movies turned out, they were guaranteed to make a ton of money either way. I imagine there were a lot of people who thought a lot of PJ's ideas were silly, but figured why rock the boat, let's just get this thing done and pick up the check and go home. I seriously doubt there were any hardcore Tolkien fans working on this thing who might have cared enough to risk insulting PJ and adding to the already tense situation on set.
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Noria
Gondor
Nov 25 2019, 2:09pm
Post #19 of 22
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We can’t know how the people involved in making The Hobbit really felt about them.
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I will say that having watched all the appendices a number of times, I don’t get a negative impression, but it’s my subjective impression. No doubt the documentaries present the best face of the production which was, after all, a place of work with all the inevitable tensions and conflicts. Some people would be there only for the paycheck whatever the movie being made, others because of a passion for film. And there were a number of self-confessed be Tolkien fans there. I’ve often thought that working for PJ with his drive for his perceived perfection, abrupt changes of course and insane deadlines must be infuriating. But there must be something else there too because a fair number the people who worked on LotR were still there for The Hobbit. Admittedly, the fact that I very much like TH movies influences the way I perceive the production. The same is true for those who dislike TH movies and maybe they find it hard to believe that anyone who worked on them could have enjoyed the experience. The notion or implication that that anyone who likes TH movies, whether they worked on them on not, cannot be a real Tolkien fan is simple false.
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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
Apr 1 2020, 4:54am
Post #20 of 22
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Almost EVERYONE from the cast/crew is a Tolkien fan...with a few exceptions, of course. No offense intended, but did you even watch the appendices/documentaries?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Apr 1 2020, 5:52am
Post #21 of 22
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I very much doubt that 2ndBreffest has watched much, if any, of the appendices.
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Almost EVERYONE from the cast/crew is a Tolkien fan...with a few exceptions, of course. No offense intended, but did you even watch the appendices/documentaries? Given our fellow poster's utter disdain for these films, do you really think 2ndBreffest watched the documentaries?
#FidelityToTolkien
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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
Apr 1 2020, 6:38am
Post #22 of 22
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But in that case, he shouldn't comment on what he doesn't know. What he has is not an informed opinion, but uninformed ''disdain'', as you say. Plus, I MET one purist online who said his ''blood boiled'' everytime he THOUGHT about the Hobbit trilogy, so I guess he hated the Hobbit as much as 2ndBreffest does...yet still claimed to have watched all the documentaries. Third, there are all kinds of citing and mention of Tolkien everywhere in the documentaries (at least the ones I have watched so far), so I don't know what this person is even on about... So...yeah.
(This post was edited by Paulo Gabriel on Apr 1 2020, 6:41am)
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