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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Mirkwood after The Hobbit

Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 12, 1:39am

Post #1 of 13 (1195 views)
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Mirkwood after The Hobbit Can't Post

I was just wondering something. After Sauron fled Dol Guldur to Mordor during the events of TH, what happened to Mirkwood? Did the darkness and sickness on the forest lift (albeit temporarily)? Or was it still dark but not inky dark, if that makes sense?

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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 12, 4:02am

Post #2 of 13 (1158 views)
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Tolkien did address this subject. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Forest did begin to heal following the expulsion of Sauron from Dol Guldur. However, it did not have enough time to become wholesome again before Sauron sent three of the Nazgūl to reoccupy the fortress just ten years later. Still, conditions in Mirkwood did get better during those few years. From The Hobbit, Chapter 19 "The Last Stage":


Quote
It appeared that Gandalf had been to a great council of the white wizards, masters of lore and good magic; and that they had at last driven the Necromancer from his dark hold in the south of Mirkwood.

"Ere long now," Gandalf was saying, "the Forest will grow somewhat more wholesome. The North will be freed from that horror for many long years, I hope. Yet I wish he were banished from the world!"


It might be that Mirkwood would never fully recover. Tolkien might have even intended that Germany's Black Forest was a remnant of Mirkwood surviving into the present day.

#FidelityToTolkien

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 12, 4:04am)


geordie
Tol Eressea

Nov 13, 5:51pm

Post #3 of 13 (1019 views)
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Mirkwood remained dark [In reply to] Can't Post

until the events of the War of the Ring.

''Celeborn came forth ...They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed.... Celeborn and Thranduil met in the midst of the forest; and they renamed Mirkwood Eryn Lasgalen, The Wood of Green Leaves,''

(RK; App. B. (p.375 in the h/back ed)


(This post was edited by geordie on Nov 13, 5:52pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 13, 6:39pm

Post #4 of 13 (1009 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it's true that we only have Gandalf's prediction that things would get better in Mirkwood after the Necromancer was driven out of Dol Guldur. And ten years of peace wasn't much time to heal almost two thousand years of harm. Even after the War of the Ring, I have to wonder if the Mountains of Mirkwood remained a blighted place for a long time.

#FidelityToTolkien

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 13, 6:40pm)


Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Nov 14, 9:28pm

Post #5 of 13 (929 views)
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In the Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

It says that Bilbo travelled around Mirkwood without too much adventure, but he was with Beorn and Gandalf at the time. And they decided no to take the perilous route under the trees. And if Bilbo had been on his own it might have been tough for him.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 15, 1:35am

Post #6 of 13 (917 views)
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Yes... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It says that Bilbo travelled around Mirkwood without too much adventure, but he was with Beorn and Gandalf at the time. And they decided no to take the perilous route under the trees. And if Bilbo had been on his own it might have been tough for him.


I don't know how much safer Mirkwood could have become only days after the Battle of Five Armies (approximately two months or so after Sauron withdrew from Dol Guldur). The spiders and other perils would not have simply vanished in a sudden puff of improbability. Tongue

#FidelityToTolkien

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 15, 1:40am)


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 16, 10:03pm

Post #7 of 13 (746 views)
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I would imagine [In reply to] Can't Post

they wouldn't have disappeared per se, but perhaps in Thranduil's realm specifically they became much more manageable and easier to drive off than before. In other words, they may not have been as bold in the elven areas of Mirkwood as they were before when Sauron had dominion over Dol Guldur.

I do think, given the presence and influence of the elves, that the ELVEN part of Mirkwood would have healed considerably in the 10 year respite, though not to its full glory. But in the rest of the forest, I agree it probably improved little in that time.

And I have no doubt that Bilbo's return journey went much more smoothly than before! If you were a giant spider, would YOU want to harass Gandalf and Beorn??? Wink

My writing and novels:

My Hobbit Fanfiction

My historical novel print and kindle version

My historical novels ebook version compatible with all ereaders

You can also find my novel at most major book retailers online (and for those outside the US who prefer a print book, you can find the print version at Book Depository). Search "Amazing Grace Amanda Longpre'" to find it.

Happy reading everyone!


No One in Particular
Lorien


Nov 16, 10:58pm

Post #8 of 13 (741 views)
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Thranduil's army... [In reply to] Can't Post

Given that the army of Mirkwood probably took some serious losses after the battle, I have to wonder if Mirkwood didn't get worse for a while before it got better, simply due to the lack of manpower available to Thranduil.

But yeah, I really don't imagine anyone wanted to mess with Beorn after the stories about the Battle got around. Smile

Edit: But of course, the Necromancer was "driven" from Mirkwood at the same time, so maybe not.

While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph

(This post was edited by No One in Particular on Nov 16, 10:59pm)


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 16, 11:16pm

Post #9 of 13 (730 views)
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Good points // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My writing and novels:

My Hobbit Fanfiction

My historical novel print and kindle version

My historical novels ebook version compatible with all ereaders

You can also find my novel at most major book retailers online (and for those outside the US who prefer a print book, you can find the print version at Book Depository). Search "Amazing Grace Amanda Longpre'" to find it.

Happy reading everyone!


sador
Half-elven


Nov 17, 5:41am

Post #10 of 13 (714 views)
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According to 'The Return Journey', [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf, Bilbo and Beorn went around Mirkwood on the way back.

Which indicates they had less fear of the (goblin-less) Grey Mountains than of the spiders.

Thinking about things I don't understand


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 17, 6:14am

Post #11 of 13 (711 views)
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Mirkwood and Beyond. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
they wouldn't have disappeared per se, but perhaps in Thranduil's realm specifically they became much more manageable and easier to drive off than before. In other words, they may not have been as bold in the elven areas of Mirkwood as they were before when Sauron had dominion over Dol Guldur.

I do think, given the presence and influence of the elves, that the ELVEN part of Mirkwood would have healed considerably in the 10 year respite, though not to its full glory. But in the rest of the forest, I agree it probably improved little in that time.


I'd say that the Woodland Realm had suffered much during Sauron's occupation of Mirkwood compared to the rest of the Forest due to the presence of Thranduil and other Sindar. It wasn't until the Company of Thorin ventured south of the Elf-path that it ran into trouble with the spiders.


In Reply To
And I have no doubt that Bilbo's return journey went much more smoothly than before! If you were a giant spider, would YOU want to harass Gandalf and Beorn??? Wink


As others have remarked, Gandalf, Bilbo and Beorn did not travel through Mirkwood to return to the Vales of Anduin, but went north around the Forest. They probably would have used the Elf-path, but Bilbo did not want to re-enter Mirkwood. Tolkien also wrote in The Hobbit that the remainder of BIlbo's return journey, accompanied by Gandalf, was relatively uneventful--at least compared to Bilbo's previous travels. I do imagine, though, that they experienced several minor adventures, perhaps an encounter with a more-or-less friendly giant.

#FidelityToTolkien

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 17, 6:16am)


Solicitr
Rohan

Nov 17, 11:38pm

Post #12 of 13 (665 views)
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Legolas said, at the Council [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
The dark things that were driven out in the year of the Dragon's fall have returned in greater numbers, and Mirkwood is again an evil place, save where our realm is maintained.

...we dared not continue the hunt, for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place, we do not go that way.



Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 18, 3:19am

Post #13 of 13 (649 views)
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Yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

...though this was 77 years after Sauron withdrew from southern Mirkwood and 67 years after he sent three of his Nazgūl to reoccupy Dol Guldur. I doubt that at any time in those years that the Forest was wholly cleansed, even in those first 10 years.

#FidelityToTolkien

 
 

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