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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Watched the appendices again....I seem to enjoy more than the actual films.

Eruonen
Valinor


Nov 11, 5:08pm

Post #1 of 19 (1426 views)
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Watched the appendices again....I seem to enjoy more than the actual films. Can't Post

 


Eruonen
Valinor


Nov 12, 4:39pm

Post #2 of 19 (1348 views)
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As has been discussed before, as you see how decisions were made under pressure [In reply to] Can't Post

I just wish PJ had someone around who had the guts to say...boss, that is a terrible idea. Or Philippa or Fran. At least they nixed his "Johnny Quest homage" with the reed basket spy.


Silmaril
Rohan


Nov 13, 10:19am

Post #3 of 19 (1298 views)
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I just wish PJ had someone around who had the guts to say...boss, that is a terrible idea. [In reply to] Can't Post

Me too! In LOTR they had some bad ideas too (Eowyn in Helm's Deep, Sauron/Aragorn fight...) but luckily they discarded the most of it.
The making Ofs of LOTR are amazing! There's a lot of talk about Tolkien and the book which is totally missing in the Hobbit specials, there's a lot of fill material instead.




(This post was edited by Silmaril on Nov 13, 10:25am)


Solicitr
Rohan

Nov 13, 9:03pm

Post #4 of 19 (1262 views)
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also [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Me too! In LOTR they had some bad ideas too (Eowyn in Helm's Deep, Sauron/Aragorn fight...) but luckily they discarded the most of it.
The making Ofs of LOTR are amazing! There's a lot of talk about Tolkien and the book which is totally missing in the Hobbit specials, there's a lot of fill material instead.



...the Company, on entering Lorien, being snatched up into the trees by unseen Elves. That scene was actually filmed!

I just wish somebody could have persuaded him to let go of the Teetering Staircase in Moria, or the whole dumb Aragorn-off-the-Cliff episode.


Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Nov 14, 9:25pm

Post #5 of 19 (1172 views)
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I suppose that the problem with the Wrags was [In reply to] Can't Post

That in the Fellowship the Wrag attack in the mountains before Moria was cut for whatever movie reason and that PJ wanted to put Wrags back in. Although i do agree that was a stupid way to do it. But could he have put them in anywhere else or just accepted that the Wrags in general would have to be cut altogether.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 15, 1:55am

Post #6 of 19 (1157 views)
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Hello, my Wrag-time gal! [In reply to] Can't Post

The attack of the Warg-riders on the way to Helm's Deep was not necessarily a horrible idea by itself. What didn't work for me (besides the design of the Wargs) was the artificial drama of Aragorn's plunge off of the cliff.

#FidelityToTolkien


Paulo Gabriel
Rivendell

Nov 15, 5:52am

Post #7 of 19 (1141 views)
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Dunno... [In reply to] Can't Post

From what I've seen of the Hobbit Appendices, there is a lot of love for Tolkien. Purists seems to miss that, not saying you are one, but they usually do [that].


2ndBreffest
Lorien


Nov 16, 10:35am

Post #8 of 19 (1031 views)
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yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

there were so many terrible ideas here, I find it impossible to believe that there was nobody who thought about saying something. I guess they were all too afraid to say anything for fear of PJ firing them. It's really a shame this turned out as it did.


Noria
Gondor

Nov 16, 3:55pm

Post #9 of 19 (1022 views)
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Interesting - the appendices vs the movies themselves [In reply to] Can't Post

I enjoy all the commentaries and appendices for both trilogies tremendously Ė Iíve never seen anything like them elsewhere. But I certainly donít like them more than any of the films themselves, either LotR or The Hobbit.

Thatís probably because I love TH movies almost as much as LoTR and so have fewer problems than others with the choices PJ made, maybe even fewer than I do with his LotR. Aside from different tones and the additional material in TH movies, I donít see the two trilogies as so very different, both the good and the bad. Plus what we got in TH was more or less what I expected.

I always supposed that there was less about Tolkien in The Hobbit EEs because there was considerable focus on him in the FotR appendices.

LOL the Laketown basket cameo - I have wondered if it was meant to be a joke but if not, for me it wasnít all that much worse than Pirates of the Anduin in RotK.


Eruonen
Valinor


Nov 17, 12:43am

Post #10 of 19 (978 views)
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In the scene where he brings up the bunny sled the look on the faces is priceless [In reply to] Can't Post

but nobody says anything and they get on with it. I wonder if the fact everyone knew the production was under time pressure they just did not want to be seen as an obstacle.....though I have a feeling that absolutley PJ runs the show with only some input from Fran or Philippa being considered. His second directors, technical design people etc. just work to fulfill his vision. The go along to get along.


Noria
Gondor

Nov 17, 2:02pm

Post #11 of 19 (925 views)
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Ah, the bunny sled. [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, the incredulous looks when PJ brings up that idea are funny.

Itís the job of everyone involved in any film production is make the directorís vision come to life, not to argue with him. PJ seems pretty genial and maybe there is more discussion, even push-back, than we see in the documentaries, but it also seems that he wants what he wants in his movies and gets it. Fran Walsh is his partner, co-producer and co-writer but in the end PJ is the director. Pretty well everyone else is an employee, though they all seem very loyal.

As it happens I love the bunny sled and think it fits with the fantastical tone of the movie. But the Goblin King Ė ugh! Too silly even for me.


Paulo Gabriel
Rivendell

Nov 18, 7:07am

Post #12 of 19 (898 views)
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At least... [In reply to] Can't Post

the Goblin King is very well done CGI.


Noria
Gondor

Nov 18, 2:54pm

Post #13 of 19 (879 views)
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Yes, the Goblin King CGI looks good [In reply to] Can't Post

Though I am not a connoisseur of such things.

But for me the design of the Goblin King is too over-the-top gross and the performance is anachronistic - too contemporary somehow. I have no feelings about Barry Humphries one way or the other but clearly PJ is a big fan.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 18, 3:08pm

Post #14 of 19 (876 views)
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Goblin King Herod [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But for me the design of the Goblin King is too over-the-top gross and the performance is anachronistic - too contemporary somehow. I have no feelings about Barry Humphries one way or the other but clearly PJ is a big fan.


Yeah, the Goblin King's number actually makes me think of King Herod's show-tune from Jesus Christ Superstar. It just seems very much out of place in Middle-earth.

King Herod's Song

#FidelityToTolkien

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 18, 3:10pm)


Noria
Gondor

Nov 18, 4:05pm

Post #15 of 19 (867 views)
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From what I recall of JCS, that's a good comparison.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Saruman
Bree


Nov 22, 4:58pm

Post #16 of 19 (812 views)
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AGREED! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
Me too! In LOTR they had some bad ideas too (Eowyn in Helm's Deep, Sauron/Aragorn fight...) but luckily they discarded the most of it.
The making Ofs of LOTR are amazing! There's a lot of talk about Tolkien and the book which is totally missing in the Hobbit specials, there's a lot of fill material instead.



...the Company, on entering Lorien, being snatched up into the trees by unseen Elves. That scene was actually filmed!

I just wish somebody could have persuaded him to let go of the Teetering Staircase in Moria, or the whole dumb Aragorn-off-the-Cliff episode.


THIS! Those two parts in specific -- the teetering staircase and Aragorn off the cliff -- are two of my most loathed aspects of the trilogy.

"I have seen it..."


Paulo Gabriel
Rivendell

Nov 23, 5:46am

Post #17 of 19 (783 views)
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You mean this? [In reply to] Can't Post

"Moria Orcs Swarming The Walls/Tottering Stair scenes in FOTR-M".?


2ndBreffest
Lorien


Nov 24, 11:42am

Post #18 of 19 (682 views)
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yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

and the bottom line for just about all involved is that this was just another paycheck. The production was running behind schedule, PJ was obviously stressed over it, and regardless of how the movies turned out, they were guaranteed to make a ton of money either way. I imagine there were a lot of people who thought a lot of PJ's ideas were silly, but figured why rock the boat, let's just get this thing done and pick up the check and go home. I seriously doubt there were any hardcore Tolkien fans working on this thing who might have cared enough to risk insulting PJ and adding to the already tense situation on set.


Noria
Gondor

Nov 25, 2:09pm

Post #19 of 19 (619 views)
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We canít know how the people involved in making The Hobbit really felt about them. [In reply to] Can't Post

I will say that having watched all the appendices a number of times, I donít get a negative impression, but itís my subjective impression.

No doubt the documentaries present the best face of the production which was, after all, a place of work with all the inevitable tensions and conflicts. Some people would be there only for the paycheck whatever the movie being made, others because of a passion for film. And there were a number of self-confessed be Tolkien fans there.

Iíve often thought that working for PJ with his drive for his perceived perfection, abrupt changes of course and insane deadlines must be infuriating. But there must be something else there too because a fair number the people who worked on LotR were still there for The Hobbit.

Admittedly, the fact that I very much like TH movies influences the way I perceive the production. The same is true for those who dislike TH movies and maybe they find it hard to believe that anyone who worked on them could have enjoyed the experience.

The notion or implication that that anyone who likes TH movies, whether they worked on them on not, cannot be a real Tolkien fan is simple false.

 
 

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