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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
Lord of the Rings TV series: Bearded men, missing teeth and people over 200cm wanted
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Althoun
Lorien

Oct 18, 6:38pm

Post #51 of 64 (2039 views)
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The video says that they want people around 4'6 from the Eurasians. Indeed, I doubt people that tiny would have caused Gondor as much trouble as they did. I think Druedain is more likely. Or perhaps they will have Southeast Asians playing both, who knows.


She definitely did say small Eurasians at one point, but I think they might be a subset of the wider Eurasian population they are seeking (others would be normal height?).

Also, if they are scale-doubles - normal-sized people would look smaller to a Númenórean.

Drúedain is a possibility though - we aren't given skin colour for them by Tolkien, so they could really be caucasian or dark-skinned or anything. If my memory recalls, Jackson had at one point decided to use a Maori actor for Ghan-buri-ghan but then omitted the character entirely (perhaps due to justified and understandable sensitivities around the 'noble savage' thing).

Second Age Drúedain would be more viable, I think, in that the ones in Númenor would be integrated within Númenórean society (Aldarion's household is described as containing Drúedain), which would avoid the tropes of them being 'native' wild men of the woods (as they are later reduced to again under persecution from their former compatriots once the imperialist era sets in, leading them to flee to Ras Morthil).


(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 18, 6:40pm)


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 18, 6:54pm

Post #52 of 64 (2034 views)
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The video looks and feels like an odd mix between a learning video for very young children and a mental breakdown vlog. The lines ("really, really short, ti-, TINY people...") combined with the hand gestures - pure comedy gold.



I know, it was......unforgettable once you've seen it, to put it delicately. Poor dear.


Quote
There is second video on the same page (with, alas, a slightly less comedic presenter) that explicitly states that they are scouting "for the upcoming Amazon original series based on the Lord of the Rings".


Yup, I've seen that one - the common details make clear that this one is also for the LotR series.


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I have never heard the term "Eurasian" used as a catch-all term for (some) South-East Asian ethnicities, Mongolians, Nepalis and Māori. Is there something I do not know about Kiwi terminology? Usually, the term "Eurasian" is either used to refer to minorities with a mixed European-(East) Asian background (in a mostly Western context) or to refer to indigenous ethnic groups in Western Central Asia.


Those are the two usages that I am personally familiar with. I assumed the difference was down to some Kiwi neologism or ethnic categorisation.


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I looked up the 2018 census for New Zealand and it seems that there are somewhat sizable groups of people living in the country that were born in Thailand, Vietnam, Malaysia, and (to a lesser extent) in Nepal. But there also plenty of people living in New Zealand who hailed from Cambodia, the Philippines, Indonesia, and on the other hand, north-eastern Asia. In other words, I still do not have a clue what the term "Eurasian" means in this particular context.


Beats me but this video (which had an official set of photos of the desired 'looks') does seem to narrow down their meaning.


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Also, I might be able to understand how the words "Latinos" (the Americanism though...) and "olive skin" could be associated with each other, but how does this lead us to "mountain people"? ^^ Again, comedy gold.


Agreed, 'mountain people' seems pretty random - I can only imagine this might be a reference to people from the Andes?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andean_culture


Quote
Andean culture is a collective term used to refer to the indigenous peoples of the Andes mountains especially those that came under the influence of the Inca Empire. Cultures considered Andean include:

Atacama people
Aymara people
Muisca people or Chibcha
Andean civilizations
Quechua people
Uru people
This term is also used to describe the Hispanic based cultures of the Andes, which through the interaction of the Spaniards with the Andean Natives formed into a distinct group of cultures incorporating both Hispanic and Indigenous cultural traits



(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 18, 6:55pm)


fantasywind
Bree

Oct 20, 10:23am

Post #53 of 64 (1900 views)
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The video says that they want people around 4'6 from the Eurasians. Indeed, I doubt people that tiny would have caused Gondor as much trouble as they did. I think Druedain is more likely. Or perhaps they will have Southeast Asians playing both, who knows.


It should be noted that the only Easterlings whose physical description we are given are those of the First Age, Easterlings arriving in Beleriand:


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"These Men were short and broad, long and strong in the arm; their skins were swart or sallow, and their hair was dark as were their eyes."

The Silmarillion, Quenta Silmarillion, Ch 18, Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin


Plus the description of an unknown tribe of Eastern people first seen fighting on Pelennor, resembling Dwarves (if those were not really some dwarven mercenaries of the four eastern clans ;)).


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... countless companies of Men of a new sort.... Not tall, but broad and grim, bearded like dwarves, wielding great axes. Out of some savage land in the wide East they come....

The Return of the King, LoTR Book 5, Ch 4, The Siege of Gondor


Where they did get that eastern/south asian looks, I have no idea. I'm actually quite surprised by that, since Easterlings play barely a role in Second Age stories, the only major involvements are Easterling invasion on Rhovanion against Longbeards and Edain alliance (mentioned in Peoples of Middle-earth, Of Dwarves and Men) during War of the Elves and Sauron and War of the Last Alliance in general reference to servants of Sauron:


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"And Sauron gathered to him great strength of his servants out of the east and the south; and among them were not a few of the high race of Númenor. For in the days of the sojourn of Sauron in that land the hearts of well nigh all its people had been turned towards darkness. Therefore many of those who sailed east in that time and made fortresses and dwellings upon the coasts were already bent to his will, and they served him still gladly in Middle-earth. But because of the power of Gil-galad these renegades, lords both mighty and evil, for the most part took up their abodes in the southlands far away; yet two there were, Herumor and Fuinur, who rose to power among the Haradrim, a great and cruel people that dwelt in the wide lands south of Mordor beyond the mouths of Anduin." The Silmarillon, Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age


And that's it, but of course for all we know the lore will be thrown out the window :). I would say Haradrim would be more important overall, because, Umbar, shores of Harad and colonies of Numenor in that area could play some role (at least one canon character like Ar-Pharazon or Aldarion gets to move around in the areas of the south, Aldarion along the coasts, Ar-Pharazon wages wars on the shores, also lands at Umbar and marches north against Sauron, Herumor and Fuinur could be shown as leaders of the Haradrim if the story would take place around the time of the Last Alliance). Easterlings in comparison are barely a footnote.


Solicitr
Rohan

Oct 20, 2:09pm

Post #54 of 64 (1891 views)
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This could be PJ influence, since in his movies the Oliphaunt riders had a Pacific Islander look and the Haradrim at the Black Gate were vaguely Asian in their equipment.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 20, 7:20pm

Post #55 of 64 (1878 views)
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This could be PJ influence, since in his movies the Oliphaunt riders had a Pacific Islander look and the Haradrim at the Black Gate were vaguely Asian in their equipment.


Do you mean in the scene where Frodo, Sam and Gollum approach the Black Gate? Because I have always assumed those Men in the film to be Easterlings of a people from the uttermost east of Rhûn. In fact, they are identified as Easterlings in Chris Smith's The Lord of the Rings: Weapons and Warfare.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 20, 7:25pm)


Solicitr
Rohan

Oct 20, 7:22pm

Post #56 of 64 (1877 views)
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as marching eastward to the Gate having come up the Harad Road through Ithilien.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 20, 7:28pm

Post #57 of 64 (1871 views)
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Not only are those soldiers identified as Easterlings in Chris Smith's book, but their weapons and armor have a distinctly Asian flavor. Besides, if they had come by the Harad Road, they most likely would have entered Mordor at Minas Morgul.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 20, 7:32pm)


Solicitr
Rohan

Oct 20, 9:31pm

Post #58 of 64 (1864 views)
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the text,

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"...Smeagol thinks they have come out of the South beyond the Great River's end: they came up that road. They have passed on to the Black Gate, but more may follow"


Note also that the spot where Faramir's company ambushed the Haradrim was well north of the Morgul road as well. Why these troops used the Morannon is unclear; but it probably is simply that the Morgul Pass was wider and flatter than Cirith Ungol but still too narrow and steep to move significant bodies of troops through. The Witch-King's army didn't come through the pass when the signal went up; it was already inside Morgul, on the west side of the mountains.


(This post was edited by Solicitr on Oct 20, 9:33pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 21, 2:21am

Post #59 of 64 (1831 views)
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[In] the text,

Quote
"...Smeagol thinks they have come out of the South beyond the Great River's end: they came up that road. They have passed on to the Black Gate, but more may follow"


Note also that the spot where Faramir's company ambushed the Haradrim was well north of the Morgul road as well. Why these troops used the Morannon is unclear; but it probably is simply that the Morgul Pass was wider and flatter than Cirith Ungol but still too narrow and steep to move significant bodies of troops through. The Witch-King's army didn't come through the pass when the signal went up; it was already inside Morgul, on the west side of the mountains.


I'm sure that you are right about the text, although it would still make more sense for Haradrim to enter Mordor through Minas Morgul (unless they were not just arriving from afar, but returning from a mission). However, Peter Jackson made the soldiers that Frodo, Sam & Gollum encountered at the Gate into Easterlings whether or not that was Tolkien's intent.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 21, 2:25am)


fantasywind
Bree

Oct 26, 11:46am

Post #60 of 64 (1767 views)
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Book version-soldiers arrival [In reply to] Can't Post


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the text,

Quote
"...Smeagol thinks they have come out of the South beyond the Great River's end: they came up that road. They have passed on to the Black Gate, but more may follow"

Note also that the spot where Faramir's company ambushed the Haradrim was well north of the Morgul road as well. Why these troops used the Morannon is unclear; but it probably is simply that the Morgul Pass was wider and flatter than Cirith Ungol but still too narrow and steep to move significant bodies of troops through. The Witch-King's army didn't come through the pass when the signal went up; it was already inside Morgul, on the west side of the mountains.


There are BOTH Easterlings and Haradrim arriving up there, when Frodo, Sam and Gollum arrive at Morannon they clearly see Easterlings:


Quote
Beneath the hills on either side the rock was bored into a hundred caves and maggot-holes: there a host of orcs lurked, ready at a signal to issue forth like black ants going to war. None could pass the Teeth of Mordor and not feel their bite, unless they were summoned by Sauron, or knew the secret passwords that would open the Morannon, the black gate of his land.

The two hobbits gazed at the towers and the wall in despair. Even from a distance they could see in the dim light the movement of the black guards upon the wall, and the patrols before the gate. They lay now peering over the edge of a rocky hollow beneath the out-stretched shadow of the northmost buttress of Ephel Dúath. Winging the heavy air in a straight flight a crow, maybe, would have flown but a furlong from their hiding-place to the black summit of the nearer tower. A faint smoke curled above it, as if fire smouldered in the hill beneath.

Day came, and the fallow sun blinked over the lifeless ridges of Ered Lithui. Then suddenly the cry of brazen-throated trumpets was heard: from the watch-towers they blared, and far away from hidden holds and outposts in the hills came answering calls; and further still, remote but deep and ominous, there echoed in the hollow land beyond the mighty horns and drums of Barad-dûr. Another dreadful day of fear and toil had come to Mordor; and the night-guards were summoned to their dungeons and deep halls, and the day-guards, evil-eyed and fell, were marching to their posts. Steel gleamed dimly on the battlement.
...
As he gazed Frodo became aware that there was a great stir and movement on the plain. It seemed as if whole armies were on the march, though for the most part they were hidden by the reeks and fumes drifting from the fens and wastes beyond. But here and there he caught the gleam of spears and helmets; and over the levels beside the roads horsemen could be seen riding in many companies. He remembered his vision from afar upon Amon Hen, so few days before, though now it seemed many years ago. Then he knew that the hope that had for one wild moment stirred in his heart was vain. The trumpets had not rung in challenge but in greeting. This was no assault upon the Dark Lord by the men of Gondor, risen like avenging ghosts from the graves of valour long passed away. These were Men of other race, out of the wide Eastlands, gathering to the summons of their Overlord; armies that had encamped before his Gate by night and now marched in to swell his mounting power. As if suddenly made fully aware of the peril of their position, alone, in the growing light of day, so near to this vast menace, Frodo quickly drew his frail grey hood close upon his head, and stepped down into the dell. Then he turned to Gollum."


They see Haradrim when they travel further south of Morannon into North Ithillien:


Quote
. It leaped into all their minds that the Black Wings had spied them and had sent armed soldiers to seize them: no speed seemed too great for these terrible servants of Sauron. They crouched, listening. The voices and the clink of weapons and harness were very close. Frodo and Sam loosened their small swords in their sheaths. Flight was impossible.

Gollum rose slowly and crawled insect-like to the lip of the hollow. Very cautiously he raised himself inch by inch, until he could peer over it between two broken points of stone. He remained there without moving for some time, making no sound. Presently the voices began to recede again, and then they slowly faded away. Far off a horn blew on the ramparts of the Morannon. Then quietly Gollum drew back and slipped down into the hollow.

'More Men going to Mordor,' he said in a low voice. `Dark faces. We have not seen Men like these before, no, Sméagol has not. They are fierce. They have black eyes, and long black hair, and gold rings in their ears; yes, lots of beautiful gold. And some have red paint on their cheeks, and red cloaks; and their flags are red, and the tips of their spears; and they have round shields, yellow and black with big spikes. Not nice; very cruel wicked Men they look. Almost as bad as Orcs, and much bigger. Sméagol thinks they have come out of the South beyond the Great River's end: they came up that road. They have passed on to the Black Gate; but more may follow. Always more people coming to Mordor. One day all the peoples will be inside.'

`Were there any oliphaunts?' asked Sam, forgetting his fear in his eagerness for news of strange places.


So clearly two groups arrive, the second they encounter in the same chapter some time later. The Easterlings are also noted in earlier parts (like in the vision of Frodo at Amon Hen to have also chariots for chieftains and 'laden wains').


fantasywind
Bree

Oct 26, 12:19pm

Post #61 of 64 (1767 views)
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As to why both the groups go specifically towards Black Gate, it's simple because there is good road approach, old numenorean roads connect before Moannon, one eastern road (a portion of it build north of Ered Lithui leading east, never finished but which nonetheless helps eastern invading armies in earlier centuries, mentioned in UT in regards to wars with Wainriders near thousand years earlier: "The road through Ithilien was still in full repair as far as the Morannon; and there it met a road going north towards the Dagorlad, and another going east along the line of Ered Lithui. [Neither of these roads is marked on the maps to the Lord of the Rings.] The eastward road extended to a point north of the site of Barad-dûr; it had never been completed further, and what had been made was now long neglected. Nonetheless its first fifty miles, which had once been fully constructed, greatly speeded the Wainriders' approach.") and southern one coming through Ithilien lead to Morannon, the Black Gate is also major entrance to the Black Land, one of the few places where huge armies can cross and move easily from and to Mordor. Minas Morgul may be less useful for mortal men because it's mentioned that:

"..because of the evil that dwelt in the valley, where the minds of living men would turn to madness and horror...."

Morgul Vale is very inhospitable for mortals, it would certainly affect Sauron's human allies and servants, probably except some few who would not give in to terror. Or maybe simply because that's the order they received, Sauron was marshaling armies in two places in Udun enclosed by Morannon and Minas Morgul under command of Nazgul, plus the last reinforcements coming from the south and the fleets send by sea. Gollum talks a bit about it, and since our dear Smeagol has surprisingly deep knowledge we may believe him I think:


Quote
"`O no, not empty! ' whispered Gollum. `It seems empty, but it isn't, O no! Very dreadful things live there. Orcs. yes always Orcs; but worse things, worse things live there too. The road climbs right under the shadow of the walls and passes the gate. Nothing moves on the road that they don't know about. The things inside know: the Silent Watchers.'

`So that's your advice is it,' said Sam, 'that we should go another long march south, to find ourselves in the same fix or a worse one, when we get there, if we ever do? '

`No, no indeed,' said Gollum. `Hobbits must see, must try to understand. He does not expect attack that way. His Eye is all round, but it attends more to some places than to others. He can't see everything all at once, not yet. You see, He has conquered all the country west of the Shadowy Mountains down to the River, and He holds the bridges now. He thinks no one can come to the Moontower without fighting big battle at the bridges, or getting lots of boats which they cannot hide and He will know about.'

'You seem to know a lot about what He's doing and thinking,' said Sam. `Have you been talking to Him lately? Or just hobnobbing with Orcs? '

'Not nice hobbit, not sensible,' said Gollum, giving Sam an angry glance and turning to Frodo. 'Sméagol has talked to Orcs, yes of course, before he met master, and to many peoples: he has walked very far. And what he says now many peoples are saying. It's here in the North that the big danger is for Him, and for us. He will come out of the Black Gate one day, one day soon. That is the only way big armies can come. But away down west He is not afraid, and there are the Silent Watchers.'"


Morgul Host was composed mostly of Orcs as they are less likely to break living in that 'dead city', more used to it's 'supernatural aura of horror'. Besides Minas Morgul might have been already full :).


Quote
And out of the gate an army came.

All that host was clad in sable, dark as the night. Against the wan walls and the luminous pavement of the road Frodo could see them, small black figures in rank upon rank, marching swiftly and silently, passing outwards in an endless stream. Before them went a great cavalry of horsemen moving like ordered shadows, and at their head was one greater than all the rest: a Rider, all black, save that on his hooded head he had a helm like a crown that flickered with a perilous light. Now he was drawing near the bridge below, and Frodo's staring eyes followed him, unable to wink or to withdraw. Surely there was the Lord of the Nine Riders returned to earth to lead his ghastly host to battle? Here, yes here indeed was the haggard king whose cold hand had smitten down the Ring-bearer with his deadly knife. The old wound throbbed with pain and a great chill spread towards Frodo's heart.
...
At that moment the Wraith-king turned and spurred his horse and rode across the bridge, and all his dark host followed him. Maybe the elven-hoods defied his unseen eyes, and the mind of his small enemy; being strengthened, had turned aside his thought. But he was in haste. Already the hour had struck, and at his great Master's bidding he must march with war into the West.

Soon he had passed, like a shadow into shadow, down the winding road, and behind him still the black ranks crossed the bridge. So great an army had never issued from that vale since the days of Isildur's might; no host so fell and strong in arms had yet assailed the fords of Anduin; and yet it was but one and not the greatest of the hosts that Mordor now sent forth.

Frodo stirred. And suddenly his heart went out to Faramir. 'The storm has burst at last,' he thought. `This great array of spears and swords is going to Osgiliath. Will Faramir get across in time? He guessed it, but did he know the hour? And who can now hold the fords when the King of the Nine Riders comes? And other armies will come. I am too late. All is lost. I tarried on the way. All is lost. Even if my errand is performed, no one will ever know. There will be no one I can tell. It will be in vain.' Overcome with weakness he wept. And still the host of Morgul crossed the bridge.

Then at a great distance..., he heard Sam's voice speaking. 'Wake up, Mr. Frodo!'....

There was a dull clang. The gates of Minas Morgul had closed. The last rank of spears had vanished down the road....

'Wake up, Mr. Frodo! They're gone, and we'd better go too.'


It took some time before the whole army marched out, Frodo managed to take a nap in the meantime :). Anyway that's as far as the source material says about military movements of various troops.


Althoun
Lorien

Nov 7, 12:38pm

Post #62 of 64 (1609 views)
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The video looks and feels like an odd mix between a learning video for very young children and a mental breakdown vlog. The lines ("really, really short, ti-, TINY people...") combined with the hand gestures - pure comedy gold.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3JzQN2BkSk

A new casting call video from BGT:

"AMAZON ORIGINAL SERIES BASED ON LORD OF THE RINGS - If you know any adult aged 16 years and over who is based anywhere in New Zealand and is super little - so 4 foot 5 foot to 4 foot 6 (we could go up to 4 foot 9 tops!) please get them to call Evelina Gailer"


(This post was edited by Althoun on Nov 7, 12:43pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 7, 3:34pm

Post #63 of 64 (1589 views)
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Scale-doubles and/or Dwarves? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ideally, much over 4 feet would be too tall for Hobbits (which shouldn't appear in the Second Age anyway), so this leads me to think that Amazon is looking for either scale-doubles or casting Dwarves.

#FidelityToTolkien

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 7, 3:37pm)


Mari D.
Rivendell


Sat, 11:46pm

Post #64 of 64 (41 views)
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Another call [In reply to] Can't Post

...
not sure if this was posted before:
https://m.facebook.com/...13&__tn__=%2B%3E

And if you click one to the left there is another one presumably for Elves :).
Found link in the reddit sub.

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