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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
Audition tapes: Tyra, Eldien, Beldor, and Aric
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Hasuwandil
Rivendell


Oct 20, 3:05am

Post #1 of 44 (1443 views)
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Audition tapes: Tyra, Eldien, Beldor, and Aric Can't Post

Redanian Intelligence, a fansite for the Netflix Witcher series, has transcriptions from audition tapes for the rumored four major characters. They don't necessarily contain dialog from an actual episode of the series, but they should provide clues to the personalities of the characters:

Redanian Intelligence

There are also links to videos of the auditions for the characters Eldien, Beldor, and Aric. The actors who posted them presumably didn't get the part; otherwise they'd be sworn to secrecy. Interestingly, both Tyra and Eldien are women, whereas Beldor and Aric are men.

Hêlâ Auriwandil, angilô berhtost,
oƀar Middangard mannum gisandid!


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 20, 9:05am

Post #2 of 44 (1353 views)
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This is fascinating! Thanks for finding it.... [In reply to] Can't Post

None of the scripted dialogues are likely going to be used in the show - they are almost certainly a pastiche of fabricated scenes intended to convey the emotions and psychology of the character without leaking anything about the plot.

But still, they do give us a flavour of the still anonymous characters.

The most interesting to me was Eldien.

While the scripted scenario is likely contrived as with the name, I got the sense that in the real thing she might be an Elf who fought in the War of Wrath against Morgoth. "Beldor" is trying to convince her evil is long gone and she has to just move on. He tries to give her a beverage which will allegedly assuage her grief.

But she tells him that while evil for him is just as a "picture in the glass of a cathedral window", that is a cultural memory of their people preserved in some kind of mural (i .e paintings of the War of Wrath as a historical event, maybe?), for her it is still very real because she actually fought the "nameless dark" (Morgoth?) and still carries it in her heart.

She then says something quite revealing: "Could fate be ever so cruel as to give me the victory over all the horrors of the war yet keep it alive in here to take with me unchanged, unending, unbreaking to the land of the winterless spring?"

The land of winterless spring is probably audition code for Valinor. In that case, she's an Elf wondering if she'll have to take all her hurts (from the First Age) with her to the Blessed Realm, or if she will ever find peace first here in Middle-earth.

Beldor then tells her, ok if you aren't going to "go home" for yourself then do it for your child to which she pretty much explodes -

"For the sake of the long path we have walked together I’ll dismiss your words as carelessness, but if you ever use my family against me our friendship is over!"

So she's probably an Elf (maybe from the First Age) who doesn't yet want to go Valinor and cannot get over her PTSD from the First Age, talking to a guy who never lived through the "war (of wrath?") but with whom she has had a long friendship.

My hot take could, of course, be completely wrong given this is a fake scenario for audition purposes.

I don't know but she kind of reminds me of Second Age Galadriel - although, interestingly, Beldor refers to the "will of our chieftan" who is female, that Eldien must depart (for Valinor, the Blessed Realm?). So maybe the chieftan is Galadriel and this is another Eregion Elf.

In the last video, concerning this 'Aric" character, the "farlanders" sound like audition tape code for the Númenoreans. The character could be Annatar but I'm not sure. I interpreted the person he was speaking to as being, perhaps, a native middle-earther who hates the "farlanders" and assumes Aric does as well. Only, he claims that it wasn't the farlanders who took his homeland, to which the woman asks: 'do you want to take it back?' or something to that effect.

It could be that he is deceiving the other person to foment revolt of some kind, which would be rather Sauron-ish.

Apart from Eric - it seems like at least two but probably three of these characters (Tyra, Eldien and Beldor) are Elves.

I'm getting the sense that this might be Eregion........


(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 20, 9:08am)


fantasywind
Bree

Oct 20, 9:34am

Post #3 of 44 (1343 views)
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Character types [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Redanian Intelligence, a fansite for the Netflix Witcher series, has transcriptions from audition tapes for the rumored four major characters. They don't necessarily contain dialog from an actual episode of the series, but they should provide clues to the personalities of the characters:
Redanian Intelligence
There are also links to videos of the auditions for the characters Eldien, Beldor, and Aric. The actors who posted them presumably didn't get the part; otherwise they'd be sworn to secrecy. Interestingly, both Tyra and Eldien are women, whereas Beldor and Aric are men.


Of course it's casting tapes but still it doesn't seem to even have anything to do with Tolkien (I expected I don't know...more connection to the universe, some small easter eggs so to speak, these sound very random), Eldien dialogue though at least has some tolkienesque quality to it plus some vague references, but that's it. It does seem to confirm these are original characters rather than established ones (though I may be completely wrong), which could mean that my worries this will be contrived entirely in fanfiction mode may come true. Eldien as another female elf warrior *sigh*, another Tauriel I guess, I could never really get to like her character in Hobbit films, but who knows I may be judging too quickly, still it doesn't say anything substantial about the setting and anything really. I read the casting scripts for the witcher tv show, at the very least the characters had some recognition to their source material basis, even through completely original dialogue (though of course witcher tv series will follow novels, Second Age material involved here is yet to be revealed), but here it doesn't say much. That's as far as my personal impression goes :).


2ndBreffest
Lorien


Oct 20, 10:54am

Post #4 of 44 (1325 views)
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well... [In reply to] Can't Post

if this is any indication of the level of writing we can look forward to, I can safely say I will have zero interest in this series. There is nothing here that even remotely resembles anything Tolkien would have ever written. Not looking good Amazon.


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 20, 11:09am

Post #5 of 44 (1318 views)
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Certainly... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
if this is any indication of the level of writing we can look forward to, I can safely say I will have zero interest in this series. There is nothing here that even remotely resembles anything Tolkien would have ever written. Not looking good Amazon.


...As is, the writing in these audition scenarios does not inspire confidence (to put it mildly).

But I think we should give them a pass, as I believe this has been crafted purely for the auditions and thus can be expected to be terrible. It's hopefully just fluff to encapsulate character emotions and help them cast.

Given how many people audition and don't get the role, Amazon won't want it to leak out.


(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 20, 11:23am)


2ndBreffest
Lorien


Oct 20, 11:28am

Post #6 of 44 (1295 views)
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yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

but if their intention is to create something that would mimic Tolkien's style of writing, why cast actors based upon dialogue that is nothing at all like it? Like I said, if this is any indication at all of what to expect, I expect really really bad fanfic of the lowest order. Hopefully this article is not legitimate, but if it is, there is nothing here that would inspire any hope that this might turn out to be something worthy of the Tolkien name.


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 20, 11:35am

Post #7 of 44 (1292 views)
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On another forum... [In reply to] Can't Post

....someone has paraphrased this (admittedly poor prose) in a rather funny way:

"You are blessed [username] for you evil script writing is… pictures set in a glass of the cathedral windows. But I have fought the nameless script writing dark, the blood of script writing dragons is ever well sated in my script writing sword and if I don’t finish the script writing task all will be in vain."

It does make me think more "generic fantasy computer game" than LotR.

We shall see. Were the GoT audition scripts back in 2009 this bad? I think the videos are still somewhere online. Might check them out for comparative purposes.....


(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 20, 11:36am)


2ndBreffest
Lorien


Oct 20, 11:47am

Post #8 of 44 (1277 views)
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yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

generic modern fantasy fanfic, very loosely based around the RotK appendices, with modern "fantasy style" dialogue and 95% non-Tolkien invented subplots is what I am expecting, and sadly what I see here does nothing to convince me otherwise.


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 20, 12:04pm

Post #9 of 44 (1267 views)
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For comparison: GoT audition tapes.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think this is the original audition tape for Sansa and Arya (must be 2008 - 09?), with the actresses actually selected in the roles:

https://youtu.be/8-qT_jt-5TQ

The dialogue here is less coded than the Amazon LotR one and does relate to things in the actual show, but these particular lines and the simulated discussion were never in the show.


(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 20, 12:05pm)


Dunadan of North Arnor
Bree

Oct 20, 12:08pm

Post #10 of 44 (1261 views)
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Agreed, and as such, [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...As is, the writing in these audition scenarios does not inspire confidence (to put it mildly).

But I think we should give them a pass, as I believe this has been crafted purely for the auditions and thus can be expected to be terrible. It's hopefully just fluff to encapsulate character emotions and help them cast.

Given how many people audition and don't get the role, Amazon won't want it to leak out.


I’ll take an optimistic guess that some elements in the scripted dialogue (not necessarily the videos) show they are casting for the roles of Galadriel & Celebrimbor (the middle 2) and Aldarion & Erendis (the 1st & last).

Like I say, just praying that Tolkien’s actual dialogue, in UT, is considered a major source for how the early part of this series takes shape.


(This post was edited by Dunadan of North Arnor on Oct 20, 12:13pm)


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 20, 12:39pm

Post #11 of 44 (1246 views)
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Galadriel and Celebrimbor [In reply to] Can't Post

Eldien and Aric are quite possibly Galadriel/Celebrimbor.

The discussion has a few small but discernible similarities to their relationship as described in an extract from Unfinished Tales.

That said, I don't see Aldarion and Erendis anywhere in these tapes.

The first role, Tyra, must presumably be an Elf because the person she is with refers to the anonymous wounded man as a "human".

The last role, Aric, is very unlike Aldarion - he seems to be rather amoral and about self-preservation.

What I do find odd is that the only auditions that have leaked are for these four roles -Tyra, Eldien, Beldor and Aric. The show must have more leading roles - so why have only these auditions leaked? Hmm.


(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 20, 12:47pm)


2ndBreffest
Lorien


Oct 20, 12:48pm

Post #12 of 44 (1235 views)
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yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

they would be wise to use whatever Tolkien dialogue they can get their hands on, and base the rest as closely as possible upon it, otherwise this will not feel at all like Tolkien, but rather more like one of a million other generic rip-offs. However, one thing they have going in their favor is that thanks to the popularity of PJ's movies, and especially after his Hobbit trilogy, the bar has been lowered drastically, and the majority of movie/tv fans will not be expecting Tolkien quality writing, which alleviates the pressure to produce something on that level. The mass public associates LotR with PJ style dialogue and storytelling and this will almost certainly be catered to that audience and not to admirers of Tolkien's literature sadly.


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 20, 2:20pm

Post #13 of 44 (1201 views)
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Tyra = Celebrían? [In reply to] Can't Post

...If she's not an entirely made-up character, I tend to think she might be Celebrían (I've long thought that Kavenagh is Celebrían anyway). What we know about Celebrían is that she becomes the wife of Elrond, Master Healer of Imladris, and this Tyra-Elf character has the qualities of mercy and concern for the wounded that one would expect in the genteel Celebrían (who departs Middle-earth in the Third Age after torture from orcs).

Eldien is quite possibly Galadriel (the reference by Beldor to her 'son' is likely changed from 'daughter' in the original to muddy the waters, and anyway in the Unfinished Tales versions' Amroth of Lórien is actually Galadriel's son).

In Unfinished Tales, Tolkien informs us that Galadriel alone first "perceived that there was an evil controlling purpose abroad in the world,” despite the long peace that followed Morgoth’s removal and she expressly relocates with her husband to Eregion in the east not to harvest mithril (as other Noldor hope to do by trading with the Dwarves) but to form an alliance there of the free peoples to counter the new evil that she thinks is threatening the world (even though no one else believes her).

She's a bit of a prophetic casandra of kinds. Unfinished Tales again:


Quote
In any case, Galadriel was more far-sighted in this than Celeborn; and she perceived from the beginning that Middle-earth could not be saved from “the residue of evil” that Morgoth had left behind him save by a union of all the peoples who were in their way opposed to him. She looked upon the Dwarves also with the eye of a commander, seeing in them the finest warriors to pit against the Orcs


Note that Tolkien describes her as having "the eye of commander", yet more martial imagery. She has a strategic military mind at this stage. In The Lord of the Rings, Galadriel explains that it was she who created the (second) Council (another, later union of the free peoples):


Quote
“I it was who first summoned the White Council. And if my designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the Grey, and then mayhap things would have gone otherwise.” (Lord of the Rings, The Mirror of Galadriel)


The warrior-elf woman archetype used for Tauriel is actually 'canonical' in the UT versions of Galadriel's story. UT, The History of Galadriel and Celeborn:

The version where Galadriel and Celeborn go to Middle-earth by ship:


Quote
In Fëanor's revolt that followed the Darkening of Valinor Galadriel had no part: indeed she with Celeborn fought heroically in defence of Alqualondë against the assault of the Noldor, and Celeborn's ship was saved from them.

The version where she joins the rebellion against the Valar:


Quote
Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she [Galadriel] fought fiercely against Fëanor in defence of her mother's kin, she did not turn back.


In both versions, while they differ radically (with Galadriel in one having no part in the Kinslaying and the other being a rebel), the commonality is that in both cases she takes up arms (fiercely/heroically). So, 'younger' Galadriel is like this Eldien lady.

Since she matches Eldien in most respects and is a 'mother' with a family like this Eldien (i.e. Celeborn her husband, a daughter and in some accounts a son), I will tentatively surmise that Eldien is Galadriel. I'm OK with her (given Tolkien's backstory for her character) being all warrior-elf Queen Bodicea-style.

A modern show will not, I think, be able to resist the opportunities afforded by this portrait of Galadriel (it doesn't have to be entirely made out thin air, as with Tauriel or Jackson's warrior-girl-at-the-ford-who-in-the-books-was-really-Glorfindel Arwen).


(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 20, 2:22pm)


Solicitr
Rohan

Oct 20, 3:42pm

Post #14 of 44 (1167 views)
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Naturally [In reply to] Can't Post

I expect Amazon to take an exception and turn it into the rule, because the modern Tropes have to be obeyed.


fantasywind
Bree

Oct 20, 4:12pm

Post #15 of 44 (1151 views)
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Character identities [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually pray you are right Althoun, it would make so much more sense this way (the 'fearsome fighting' aspect of some elven females works in context of Galadriel, Aredhel and others like them, Tauriel though, in Hobbit films was more of a 'soldier type' but nothing else, while these elf-women were not primarily warriors but capable of fighting and general martial oriented, Aredhel skilled in hunting and hardy traveler etc. but their independence and spirit was more important, strength of character is something that Tauriel lacked, while movies tried to show off her skills she was actually elevated at the cost of other characters and in the end she was a weak character). But for some reason Eldien immediately brought in mind Tauriel (and to use the more 'recent' addition of this type the Shadow of War Eltariel, and that damn awful interpretation of Tolkien world makes the Tolkien fan in me at times to cringe :) :))

Celebrian does appear and is mentioned throughout the History of Galadriel and Celeborn, even if she doesn't do anything noteworthy, but her receiving the Elessar in any case shows her interest in healing and growth, an artifact of the sort that Elessar fits her perfectly, a gentle soul with concern for others (kindness later showed in Celebrian's daughter Arwen), speaking of 'maybe son' Amroth could be a nice character to show especially since he is involved in fighting (I wonder if they will show that, though the version where he is son of Amdir/Malgalad is better fitting ;)).

Galadriel though would be the leadership position, she would still have her desire for a realm of her own, why would the transcript imply subservient position under chieftain and being ordered to go...somewhere? Of course it's all not representing the 'real' script. Celebrimbor and Galadriel conversation in UT works much better when in comparison (so I hope they will use it word for word, it makes me thinking, no matter how much that comparison is tiring after a while, :) the conversations in Game of Thrones which were taken straight from novels (like Tyrion Lannister and Janos Slynt, it captures the dialogue from the book very well), but enough about GoT let's hope they won't try to actually style themselves on it, Lotr tv show should distance itself and the source material as it is should be used in entirety for getting the best moments

Returning to Tauriel, I would say that from the beginning her specific 'role' in story was on the wrong side (if they really wanted they could have made her a female version of the unnamed Captain of the Guard from book, or at least in a more interesting minor function, as one of the spies Elvenking send in The Hobbit book: "He sent out his spies about the shores of the lake and as far northward towards the Mountains as they would go, and waited." this way she would at least have a reason to go and become involved, because it's her mission :)).


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 20, 5:28pm

Post #16 of 44 (1116 views)
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Another 'Eldien' audition.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I found another 'Eldien' audition on Vimeo, by a different actress:

https://vimeo.com/355436343

At the same time as the Lotronprime auditions were being held about 5 months ago, I also learned that the Wot auditions were ongoing and that Amazon used 'fake' or corrupted names for the characters:

https://www.wotseries.com/2019/10/19/audition-tape-gives-glimpse-into-changes-to-wheel-of-time/?fbclid=IwAR2WxzjnXKa2P82_xx1LkfknAfPK9uAD9k4_xXRkzJqwMVjFTD_k28VPyXs


Quote
Audition Tape Gives Glimpse into Changes to Wheel of Time

In an April 2019 audition tape on popular creator video site, Vimeo, the dialog read by Irish actress, Seána Kerslake, and an off-camera voice sheds light on possible changes to how things will play out in the TV series adaptation of Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time.

In the clip names, concepts and places are altered to obscure the series:

“Nadie” is Nynaeve
“Mayela” or “Maryela” (couldn’t make it out exactly) is Moiraine
“The Dark” is the Dark One
“Shaman” is Wisdom
“Your City” is Tar Valon
“Your Sisters” is Aes Sedai
“Read the Signs” is most likely wielding the power or channeling

It is also important to note that the dialog herein does not necessarily reflect the final script for the show and could’ve been created in this form to help highlight certain attributes in the character to help with the cast selection process.


So the names are not the real deal (Phewwww) and neither is the dialogue final form (seemingly) for WoT either. These just seem to be standard Amazon policy for the auditions in all their shows.


(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 20, 5:39pm)


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 20, 6:04pm

Post #17 of 44 (1089 views)
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Even if the names are changed [In reply to] Can't Post

It doesn't mean that the characters are ones that were actually created by Tolkien. I still tend to believe that it is likely that these "main" characters are characters invented by the showrunners.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 20, 6:05pm

Post #18 of 44 (1093 views)
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I hope not... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It doesn't mean that the characters are ones that were actually created by Tolkien. I still tend to believe that it is likely that these "main" characters are characters invented by the showrunners.


...but at least more Tolkienesque names are likely in store if they are created for the series.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 20, 6:19pm

Post #19 of 44 (1080 views)
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We'll see! [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope I am wrong, but I would rather err to the side of having expectations that are too low, rather than too high.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 20, 6:22pm

Post #20 of 44 (1082 views)
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That's pragmatic [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I hope I am wrong, but I would rather err to the side of having expectations that are too low, rather than too high.


Understood, I agree that its always better to err on the side of low rather than high expectations.

But given what happened for the WoT auditions, I genuinely feel that these are not authentic names.

Whether or not the characters themselves are wholly invented is a different matter, of course.


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 20, 6:40pm

Post #21 of 44 (1070 views)
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A good point... [In reply to] Can't Post

This guy on Twitter (Daniel Greene) who makes videos about WoT makes a good point:

https://youtu.be/8-qT_jt-5TQ


Quote
To everyone who keeps sending me those audition tapes, those probably don’t reflect the actual show much. They don’t send the actual script out to thousands of people. That would be a bad idea. They send fake scenes or heavily modified ones. Not really a huge deal!


So we really do need to take them with a pinch of salt.

Some vague indications as to character emotions or general personality are about all we can viably take from them.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 20, 7:11pm

Post #22 of 44 (1064 views)
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Eldien and Tyra [In reply to] Can't Post

Based on what I've seen here, I agree that it seems more likely than not that Eldien is actually Galadriel, though I might be proven wrong. Galadriel would have taken part in the Councils of the Wise in opposition to Sauron. Does Tyra = Celebrían? I am far less certain about that, though Celebrían seems to have been born fairly early in the Second Age, if not in the First Age; so, she has at least been around long enough to play a significant role in the show.

I will guess that Beldor is indeed a Man, very possibly a Númenórean and one of the Faithful. Aric? I'm not sure.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 20, 7:14pm)


Chen G.
Rohan

Oct 20, 7:49pm

Post #23 of 44 (1046 views)
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Hmmm, Celebrian [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, if you want to really get into the customs of the Eldar, we know that the Elves consummate a marriage immediately, and so one would assume they'd have offsprings soon after their first union, which would set Celebrian's date of birth quite early.


In Reply To

...As is, the writing in these audition scenarios does not inspire confidence (to put it mildly).


I would have to agree. I really pity people who had to pull off this kind of language for an audition. Damn!

But I do think its not meant to reflect the quality of the writing in the show itself.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Oct 20, 7:59pm)


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 20, 7:58pm

Post #24 of 44 (1042 views)
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Folks are having... [In reply to] Can't Post

....freak-out reactions to the leaked dialogue from the WoT auditions as well (I think they maybe are worse.)....see:

https://vimeo.com/335756523

but I think that's just the nature of the beast. The scripts are kept under lock and key, and they aren't going to beam them to thousands of people so that the plot is out there in the open.

So what we get are some hastily written fluff that nonetheless expresses important dimensions of character that they need the actors to convey. I guess a great actor could make the phonebook sound like Othello.

Here are what some worried Wheel of Time fans are writing on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/dkeed2/audition_tape_reveals_changes_to_storyline/


Quote
I really hope the actual dialogue they end up shooting is way better than the one here. This is daytime soap opera level.



Quote
If the dialogue in the show is anywhere near as bad as the dialogue in this leak, it will be a trainwreck.



Quote
I hope this is just a casting script and not a real script, because it would change everything about the story.



(This post was edited by Althoun on Oct 20, 8:01pm)


Althoun
Lorien

Oct 21, 11:53am

Post #25 of 44 (952 views)
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All the auditions now gone... [In reply to] Can't Post

.....apart from the single, later Eldien audition that I found myself.

Presumably they've all been taken down by their uploaders after Amazon got wind of the leaks and the fact we've all been discussing them.

Curious that Ali Rodney's Eldien (the only one of the audition self-taoes that I actually thought was well acted) is still up.

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