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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Tolkien vs Peter Jackson: Five Things the Books Did Better Than the Films
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squire
Half-elven


Sep 11, 9:51pm

Post #26 of 46 (2258 views)
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Is that your writing or are you quoting someone else? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's hard to tell the way you've framed the post. Thanks for it, in any case.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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Lissuin
Valinor


Sep 11, 11:45pm

Post #27 of 46 (2255 views)
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2004: Here is the link to the essay by a Tolkien fan very unhappy with the films. [In reply to] Can't Post

Promises Kept — Not the good ones, I'm afraid. ROTK-M At Last
https://web.archive.org/...hedain.netfirms.com/
These quotes are found in part 2. Characterization and Plot Evisceration Continues

I don't know who wrote it but read it from an earlier post in April where Solicitir referenced it.
http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=959802#959802

There's enough here to keep you guys writing for some time (she said very sweetly). Knock yourselves out. I have a Hobbit caption to choose. Angelic


Solicitr
Rohan

Sep 12, 2:23am

Post #28 of 46 (2229 views)
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Subject [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

I don't know who wrote it but read it from an earlier post in April where Solicitir referenced it.
http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=959802#959802


I thought it was familiar!


Paulo Gabriel
Rivendell

Sep 12, 10:18am

Post #29 of 46 (2183 views)
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Both quotes are not mine. [In reply to] Can't Post

They are from one Joan Barger, fanfiction author of LOTR. They are from 2003-04. IMO, the essays are classic, as are her turn-of-phrases.


lurtz2010
Rohan

Sep 13, 12:13am

Post #30 of 46 (2116 views)
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Jeez there’s no pleasing that person [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Promises Kept — Not the good ones, I'm afraid. ROTK-M At Last
https://web.archive.org/...hedain.netfirms.com/
These quotes are found in part 2. Characterization and Plot Evisceration Continues

I don't know who wrote it but read it from an earlier post in April where Solicitir referenced it.
http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=959802#959802

There's enough here to keep you guys writing for some time (she said very sweetly). Knock yourselves out. I have a Hobbit caption to choose. Angelic

Do they have an essay about the hobbit films by any chance?


Solicitr
Rohan

Sep 13, 3:17pm

Post #31 of 46 (2033 views)
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I think she's right on the money. [In reply to] Can't Post

 And she -and I -could have been pleased: by much better films than PJ made.

Actually, I'm not as harsh about Shore's score, which overall I thought was quite good. However, I will grant that he did overrepeat the same stuff without variation too often (or the sound editor spliced in the same track too often); and I agree that ersatz-Celtic standing in for "olde" IS an overused cliche, and I couldn't stand his hackneyed Exorcist-like shrieking demonic choruses.


lurtz2010
Rohan

Sep 13, 10:38pm

Post #32 of 46 (1990 views)
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It’s like she despised every atom involved in the movies [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn’t think it was possible for someone to be so disappointed with the Lotr trilogy.

My respect for her opinion dropped to zero when I read her alternative TTT movie that she wrote. All those short scenes cut back and forth every 10 seconds or so would’ve been a mess and those constant long zooms across the land to show the geography between each of the storylines was just ridiculous.


Paulo Gabriel
Rivendell

Sep 17, 7:05am

Post #33 of 46 (1668 views)
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Maybe no more a mess or ridiculous... [In reply to] Can't Post

than what PJ actually did. ;)


Paulo Gabriel
Rivendell

Sep 25, 10:05am

Post #34 of 46 (1357 views)
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They? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
Promises Kept — Not the good ones, I'm afraid. ROTK-M At Last
https://web.archive.org/...hedain.netfirms.com/
These quotes are found in part 2. Characterization and Plot Evisceration Continues

I don't know who wrote it but read it from an earlier post in April where Solicitir referenced it.
http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=959802#959802

There's enough here to keep you guys writing for some time (she said very sweetly). Knock yourselves out. I have a Hobbit caption to choose. Angelic

Do they have an essay about the hobbit films by any chance?


It's one person who wrote this, and ''it's'' a she.

And no, she's not on the Internet since 2012 at least and hasn't written anything on the Hobbit flicks AFAIK.


skyofcoffeebeans
Rivendell

Sep 25, 10:27am

Post #35 of 46 (1354 views)
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Erm... [In reply to] Can't Post

They has often been historically used as a singular pronoun and is sometimes preferred by an individual. It's not inappropriate to use it when the gender is unknown, or if the poster would rather not use gendered pronouns at all. Nowhere in that post did that poster refer to a person as an it...

But regardless, her commentary on the Hobbit films would be great to read, though if she could barely suffer through LOTR I don't know that she ever saw most of Jackson's Hobbit filmography.


Paulo Gabriel
Rivendell

Sep 26, 9:58am

Post #36 of 46 (1251 views)
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I didn't know that... [In reply to] Can't Post

English is not my first language, sorry. Thanks for the clarification. As for "it", I was referring to my own incompetence at writing that sentence, i.e., I had no idea how to frame it.

I personally think Barger would have been terrified by the Hobbit movies and would not have watched most of them (it?). If anything, she would have finished AUJ. I guess.


(This post was edited by Paulo Gabriel on Sep 26, 10:02am)


skyofcoffeebeans
Rivendell

Sep 26, 8:17pm

Post #37 of 46 (1189 views)
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Gotcha, no worries [In reply to] Can't Post

Quite selfishly, I'd read every piece of commentary she would write for them (except perhaps her script treatments; they read too brusquely for a script).


Solicitr
Rohan

Sep 27, 7:51pm

Post #38 of 46 (1068 views)
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Paulo, [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't want to start an argtument, but there is almost no tradition in proper English for using "they" as a substitute pronoun when the gender of the referent isn't known. It has suddenly increased in usage for political, not grammatical reasons; in proper English there is almost always a way to identify the referent without resorting to language abuse.

I wonder if in other European languages, which all have grammatical geneder for every noun, and in many cased the g.g. of a noun is apparently entirely arbitrary (certainly in German that's the case!), if grammatical gender has therefore been nearly as much a controversy, or if native speakers' attitude is more "It never mattered anyway."


squire
Half-elven


Sep 27, 8:22pm

Post #39 of 46 (1063 views)
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This article on language suggests there are two types of uses, one quite old and one relatively new. [In reply to] Can't Post

The article notes that using 'they' as a singular pronoun, when the gender is not known or is not relevant, goes back a long way, centuries in fact: "...regardless of what detractors say, nearly everyone uses the singular they in casual conversation and often in formal writing."

The much newer usage, for when the gender is known but is not desired to be used as per a binary or similar identification, is relatively new. Note that this Merriam-Webster language article added the commentary on the second usage just this month!



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Solicitr
Rohan

Sep 27, 8:40pm

Post #40 of 46 (1059 views)
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I [In reply to] Can't Post

said, proper English. Casual demotic usage would legitimize all sorts of atrocities.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Sep 28, 7:06am

Post #41 of 46 (1025 views)
Shortcut
There's always tension [In reply to] Can't Post

between the continual evolution of language and the intentional (or otherwise) torture of language. Much of of the definition comes down to personal taste.

For me, I'm good with neologisms, broadened meanings and the like as long as the meaning is clear and the wording is deliberate (rather than a gaffe). Also personally, the English language would be *a lot* more clear if punctuation was used better - especially commas and apostrophes! But that's a personal soapbox that I'll pack away for now.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Paulo Gabriel
Rivendell

Sep 28, 12:38pm

Post #42 of 46 (1001 views)
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There's no argument to be had with me... [In reply to] Can't Post

since I was the one who said all along that "they" was weird and/or wrong. You should argue this with the other poster.


Noria
Gondor

Sep 28, 1:14pm

Post #43 of 46 (995 views)
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Languages, like everything else, evolve. [In reply to] Can't Post

IMO one of the great strengths of the English language is its ability to adapt, to encompass new words and new usages. The English language that we speak is not exactly the same as it was a century ago. That adaptive quality makes English flexible, expressive and vibrant.

My pet peeve is the newish thing of saying “No problem” instead of “You’re welcome”, unless of course the former is more appropriate to the situation. I also feel a bit sorry for anyone whose vocabulary is so small that they are limited a single word as verb, noun, adverb and adjective (hint: it begins with F).Wink

And yes, this broader use of “they” is acceptable to me.


Paulo Gabriel
Rivendell

Oct 2, 6:26am

Post #44 of 46 (816 views)
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Why? [In reply to] Can't Post

Because you thought the LOTR rants were good?


CMackintosh
The Shire

Sat, 8:13am

Post #45 of 46 (210 views)
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The Shire as a character [In reply to] Can't Post

likewise Rohan, Lothlorien, Ithilien, and even Mordor. The films don't even notice that these locations are every bit as valid characters as the animates. Of course, Tolkienj blew it with the Ents - he didn't make it clear enough that the Ents are tree-ish as well as animates, but it is rather hard to do. Olaf Stapledon in The Star Maker flubbed it even worse with some tree-men he came up with.


Paulo Gabriel
Rivendell

Tue, 5:16am

Post #46 of 46 (109 views)
Shortcut
I think he made it quite clear... [In reply to] Can't Post

that the Ents only somewhat resembled trees.

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