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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Sep 6 2019, 11:35pm
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Environment conflict in the Silmarillion
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Or at least potential conflict in the Silmarillion. In all of its tragedy, there was one little potential incident which caught my eye and has not been discussed to much. At the coming of Men into Beleriand the Green Elves of Ossiriand made a plea to Fingon to move them on as 'they are makers of stone and hewers of trees.' they also said that they would afflict the men with all means that they could if Fingon did not. Now this could have become quite nasty if the Men had not moved on. After all from their point of view the Men would say that they had to fell trees to create shelter. A war between Green-Elves and Man at that time could have been very unpleasant.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Sep 7 2019, 2:24am
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That could mean war, or maybe just harassment and vandalism
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IIRC, they also disliked that Men ate animals, and Finrod was vacationing in East Beleriand so he could go hunting. So, that would have made him an unfriend too.
War was possible between the Green-Elves and the Edain, but I think that given their secretive nature and lack of heavy armaments, it would have been guerrilla warfare, and maybe burning down their houses when they away from home or whatever. But you raise a good question: would the Men have stayed and fought, or just moved on?
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Solicitr
Gondor
Sep 7 2019, 12:33pm
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don't think the objection was that the Laiquendi were vegetarians!* Their fear was that the Men would take all the animals themselves and leave nothing for the Elves to hunt.
To my knowledge none of the peoples Tolkien wrote were vegetarians, except for the Ents (who actually were "mineralians"), and the unique figures of Bombadil and Beorn.
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*The Green-elves' mode of warfare was one which could only be maintained by a hunting people. Tolkien's model rather plainly was the woodland Indians; Hiawatha was one of his favorite stories.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Sep 7 2019, 4:13pm
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unless we have different versions of The Silmarillion:
For we desire no strangers in this land to break the peace in which we live. And these folk are hewers of trees and hunters of beasts; therefore we are their unfriends, and if they will not depart we shall afflict them in all ways that we can.’
Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Silmarillion (p. 138). HMH Books. Kindle Edition.
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Oct 1 2019, 8:12am
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Yes, possibly the green-elves where been a bit raciest towards Men
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InTheChair
Rohan
Oct 1 2019, 8:12pm
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Race might be part of it, but I don't think the Green Elves would have been happier if any faction of the Noldor would have moved people into the woods to live there. (Although possibly the Noldor could be considered a different race of Elves, and Men different species)
The reason for the Green Elves plea (to Felagund I think, not Fingon), was that they had heard that he had been among them. The Green Elves might have known that there were more men coming.
With we will afflict them, we must guess their intentions was in one way or another to encourage them, by harm or harassment, either to turn back, or to press on so that they became acquainted with the Noldor and might recommend any who came after to also move on. (This does appear to have been the case with most of the Edain, and the Easterlings came further northward maybe.)
Is there species equivalent of racism?
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