Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Heres a little thought I had

Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Aug 23, 9:13pm

Post #1 of 16 (4184 views)
Shortcut
Heres a little thought I had Can't Post

Whilst thinking of all things Rivendell and Elrond Council decisions. If they knew that Sauron was expecting the Elves to take the Ring to the sea and throw it in there as the easy option as Gandalf suggested, should they have send a decoy company of Elves that way to attract Sauron's attention away from the real mission?


CuriousG
Half-elven


Aug 24, 6:30pm

Post #2 of 16 (4085 views)
Shortcut
Maybe Galdor did that on the way home? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 26, 2:01pm

Post #3 of 16 (3948 views)
Shortcut
Sauron wielded great power without actually possessing the Ring- [In reply to] Can't Post

Unmaking it would seem the only clear option. Of course any plan hinged upon Sauron’s inability to believe that anyone would have the strength to cast the Ring aside—and he was mostly correct in that belief. So while he may have fallen for a distraction, until the Ring became unmade, he would just keep doing what he was doing.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 26, 2:10pm

Post #4 of 16 (3948 views)
Shortcut
Now another question emerges- [In reply to] Can't Post

Did Sauron’s power—pale reflection that it was without himself possessing the Ring—rest on someone, anyone, possessing it? For instance, was his power greater while someone, a willing or unwilling vessel, owned the Ring, rather than it laying on a river-bed, or at the bottom of a deep crevice?


VeArkenstone
Lorien

Aug 26, 6:54pm

Post #5 of 16 (3909 views)
Shortcut
The Ring of Power [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Sauron would have the most power if a willing participant possessed the Ring. Isildor, Bilbo, Frodo and possibly Gollum all had problems wearing the Ring, if worn too long it made them sick, especially Isildor, so they wore the Ring very little. Isildur was an unwilling participant, Frodo was an unwilling participant until he and Sam reached the the Fire of Mount Doom, and then Frodo put the Ring on and became a willing participant. He was so willing, he knew what would happen to himself, his friends and family, and all of Middle Earth, but he did not care. If it had not been for Gollum taking final possession of the Ring and getting it into the Fire, Middle Earth almost certainly would have been lost forever to the Darkness. Bilbo did not even know he was participating in something, but kept the Ring to himself and hardly wore it, and the Dark Lord had no idea where it was until Gollum ratted out Bilbo.

I think the Ring would have to be worn by a willing participant in order for Sauron to use it to force his will upon Middle Earth. If lying in a dark crevice somewhere, Sauron can still feel that it is still alive, but could not use it to force his will on Middle Earth effectively.

Please, call me Ve.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 26, 8:40pm

Post #6 of 16 (3894 views)
Shortcut
Hmmm. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think that the possession of the Ring by another added anything to Sauron's raw power. It would have spread his influence indirectly, though through the corruption of the bearer.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)


CuriousG
Half-elven


Aug 28, 3:50pm

Post #7 of 16 (3736 views)
Shortcut
I would guess [In reply to] Can't Post

that his power was the same, whether the One Ring were lost or was being worn/kept by a mortal.

But how about this: what if someone who really mattered gained possession of the One, like Gandalf or Galadriel. Would Sauron's power be the same if his Ring were in the hands of a formidable opponent? My gut says he'd be weaker somehow.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 29, 3:37am

Post #8 of 16 (3684 views)
Shortcut
But there is only one Lord of the Ring - [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn’t his will ultimately bind and bend others’ to it?

I think we all agree though that Sauron would know if the Ring existed still—whether in someone's (or something’s) possession or cast away—or was unmade.

Throwing it in the sea would be a setback at best.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Aug 29, 3:39am)


Solicitr
Rohan

Aug 30, 3:09pm

Post #9 of 16 (3519 views)
Shortcut
In one of his Letters [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien speculated that if a claimant with sufficient native strength, a Saruman or a Gandalf, possibly a Galadriel, had both obtained and succeeded in mastering the Ring, then (and only then) the effect on Sauron would be the same as if the Ring were destroyed: the mystical link to his "soul jar" would be severed and he would be diminished to eternal impotence.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 30, 3:57pm

Post #10 of 16 (3513 views)
Shortcut
I think this is what you are referring to [In reply to] Can't Post

Letter 246, to Mrs. Eileen Elger in September 1963.



Quote
Of the others only Gandalf might be expected to master him – being an emissary of the Powers and a creature of the same order, an immortal spirit taking a visible physical form. In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve. In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated. One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.
Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great).
[The draft ends here. In the margin Tolkien wrote: 'Thus while Sauron multiplied [illegible word] evil, he left "good" clearly distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil.']


'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Solicitr
Rohan

Aug 30, 4:24pm

Post #11 of 16 (3508 views)
Shortcut
That's the one [In reply to] Can't Post

--


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 3, 2:46am

Post #12 of 16 (3171 views)
Shortcut
So- [In reply to] Can't Post

The Ring continuing at the bottom of the sea, or in any but a few hands means Sauron continues. But in those few hands, even if Sauron is no more, Evil persists anyway.

There was only one choice after all.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 3, 1:52pm

Post #13 of 16 (3108 views)
Shortcut
Exactly! [In reply to] Can't Post

Sauron was doing Morgoth's bidding all along, even when he thought he was acting on his own behalf.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Solicitr
Rohan

Sep 4, 12:05am

Post #14 of 16 (3037 views)
Shortcut
and [In reply to] Can't Post

let's not forget, even without the Ring Sauron was still going to win in a straight military context. The march to the Morannon was indeed a diversion and a suicide-bait gambit; but as Gandalf and Aragorn made clear in The Last Debate, to remain on the defensive would simply delay the inevitable Sauronian victory.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Sep 4, 9:00pm

Post #15 of 16 (2920 views)
Shortcut
Half of the ring lies here with me. [In reply to] Can't Post

But the other half's at the bottom of the sea.

Hey! Hey! Hey!

Sort of a Lord of the Rings - Wizard of Earthsea mash-up?


Treachery, treachery I fear; treachery of that miserable creature.

But so it must be. Let us remember that a traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend.


-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 11, 2:28am

Post #16 of 16 (2405 views)
Shortcut
Gramma shared this proof in her September 8th Time post on Main: [In reply to] Can't Post

Mithrandir spoke to the Council, saying:
..."'It is not needed that the Ring should be found, for while it abides on earth and is not unmade, still the power that it holds will live, and Sauron will grow and have hope..."

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.