Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
Which Tolkien characters are essential for the series?
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Tue, 6:37pm

Post #26 of 40 (344 views)
Shortcut
Faramir, Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond (and Movie-Aragorn) [In reply to] Can't Post

Faramir, of course, expressly forswears taking the Ring when he had the two Hobbits in his and his Rangers' power. Both Gandalf and Galadriel refuse to take the Ring when Frodo offers it to them, albeit under different circumstances. Elrond tries to get Isildur to destroy it, and makes no effort to take it from him by force (a la Sméagol and Deagol).

And there is the lovely scene in the film (lovely to me, I know your mileage varies) where Aragorn closes Frodo's hand over the Ring and sends him off on his way, rather than taking the Ring himself. Of course, that's not Tolkien, but its still a nice scene showing an important character not getting corrupted by potentially possessing the Ring.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan


Tue, 8:34pm

Post #27 of 40 (323 views)
Shortcut
Squire explained it better than I ever could [In reply to] Can't Post

I agreed with pretty much everything he said: and I just personally feel that the characters of Tom and Goldberry are beautifully-written, perfectly realized. When I want to reread a chapter of LOTR, I'll usually choose "The House of Tom Bombadil" because of how beautiful the writing is in that chapter. Also, if Tom is a Maiar, as seems likely, then the encounter with him is the only real time we get to see one of the gods of Middle-earth up close and personal (excluding Gandalf and Saruman, since they're kind of "veiled" for the most part). So that really intrigues me too.

"It is my duty to fight" - Mulan


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Tue, 9:41pm

Post #28 of 40 (315 views)
Shortcut
Retrofitted [In reply to] Can't Post

Tom and Goldberry (not to mention Old Man Willow and the Barrow-wight) already existed outside of the mythology that LOTR connected to and they were added to the story more or less because Tolkien liked them and wanted to include them. You can call Tom a Maia if you want to, and I won't argue that it probably is the best fit in the mythology as it came to exist, but I don't really think that Tolkien meant that to be the case. I think Tom and Goldberry are both earth spirits separate from the pantheon of beings that exist in the legendarium and that is both why he is immune from the power of the Ring, but also unable (or unwilling, which really is the same thing) to take any action to help destroy the Ring. It's almost like you step outside the story when you enter his domain, and then jump back in when he leaves the Hobbits at the borders of Bree. Certainly from the perspective of modern fiction-writing that is "bad writing". Perhaps that is why I love it so much!

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire

(This post was edited by Voronwë_the_Faithful on Tue, 9:43pm)


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Tue, 10:19pm

Post #29 of 40 (311 views)
Shortcut
Fair points. [In reply to] Can't Post

Although you don't mention Sam. Let us say that the Ring does not absolutely corrupt all who possess it. Different characters are affected in accordance with their natures and circumstances. And in a nifty twist, the one character who would apparently be totally unaffected would also be useless as its guardian for that very reason.


Treachery, treachery I fear; treachery of that miserable creature.

But so it must be. Let us remember that a traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend.


-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Tue, 10:54pm

Post #30 of 40 (305 views)
Shortcut
The Ring's Corruption [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Faramir, of course, expressly forswears taking the Ring when he had the two Hobbits in his and his Rangers' power. Both Gandalf and Galadriel refuse to take the Ring when Frodo offers it to them, albeit under different circumstances. Elrond tries to get Isildur to destroy it, and makes no effort to take it from him by force (a la Sméagol and Deagol).

And there is the lovely scene in the film (lovely to me, I know your mileage varies) where Aragorn closes Frodo's hand over the Ring and sends him off on his way, rather than taking the Ring himself. Of course, that's not Tolkien, but its still a nice scene showing an important character not getting corrupted by potentially possessing the Ring.


Presumably, everyone listed above (and Samwise as well) would eventually be corrupted by the Ring if they had fully taken possession of it. Galadriel says as much for herself. It would have taken some longer to fall than others, but only Bombadil was truly immune. That said, we are starting to wander far from the topic of this thread!

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Tue, 10:54pm)


kzer_za
Lorien

Tue, 11:49pm

Post #31 of 40 (292 views)
Shortcut
Yep, kind of what I was going to say... [In reply to] Can't Post

Faramir, Gandalf, Galadriel, and movie Aragorn aren't corrupted because they know how dangerous the Ring is and have the wisdom the stay away from it (while Denethor knows it's dangerous, but thinks he's wise enough to use it). As Gandalf famously says (paraphrasing) "I would take the ring out of the desire to do good, but from it would come a power too terrible to imagine." Bombadil is his own bizarre category, and for Elrond we really know very little of his encounter with Isildur or what might have been in his mind.

Sam had the Ring for a very short time. In that brief span, he has a very vivid temptation scene, as "Samwise the Strong, hero of the age." Frodo doesn't really have power fantasies like this; for him the Ring's temptation is usually more elemental as a simple overwhelming force. To his credit Sam resists of course, but with more time I'm sure he would have succumbed. In the book the Ring doesn't affect Frodo all that much in the early stages either, Nazgul encounters aside.

And like Voronwe I like that movie Aragorn scene very much. While PJ & co. invented some stupid things, he has some rather nice original scenes too like that one, Theodred's funeral and Bilbo's acorn. Let us hope the many scenes the Amazon show will invent are closer to those kind of things than the undead cocoa puffs or bunny sled chase!


(This post was edited by kzer_za on Tue, 11:55pm)


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Wed, 3:40am

Post #32 of 40 (256 views)
Shortcut
Not all who wander are lost! [In reply to] Can't Post

There's not really any news about the show to discuss anyway, and I've never been a fan of idle speculation.

In any event, we don't really know that Tom was immune from the Ring's corruption, because he didn't really possess it either. All we know is that it didn't make him invisible, but Gandalf implies that only mortals are made invisible by Rings of Power, and neither he nor Galadriel (nor Elrond) are made invisible when they wear their Rings of Power.

That having been said, I do think that Tom was immune from the power of the Ring because he was not really part of the universe of Middle-earth.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


fantasywind
The Shire

Wed, 2:02pm

Post #33 of 40 (209 views)
Shortcut
Retrofitting characters and Tom Bombadil [In reply to] Can't Post

Speaking of characters from Lotr who would definitely be alive in Second Age, some minor elven characters could be added, they were around back then after all. So characters like:

Erestor
Galdor of the Havens
Gildor Inglorion
Lindir
Glorfindel (texts of HoME allude to him being the same Glorfindel from Gondolin returned to Middle-earth, but it's too difficult to tell whether the Amazon could use this)

All of them could get some role as side characters in the story focusing in Elves, in Lindon with Gil-galad or in Eregion. In general the lists of characters that people posted already, are good enough but it all depends on the time period and specific story in SA they want to tell, so if this would be period of:

Forging the Rings of Power/War of the Elves and Sauron
then characters as mentioned

Galadriel
Celeborn
Celebrian (because why not she is mentioned in UT even if she doesn't have particular importance for the story at hand)
Amdir/Malgalad and Amroth (they could appear too because of the Galadriel's interest in Lorinand, but their role would be bigger for Last Alliance period)
Gil-galad
Elrond (of course the two are important)
Cirdan Shipwright (he is the most underappreciated character in Tolkien ever, he is the oldest elf alive and remembers all history and took part in shaping it, took part in most wars and battles starting since First Age in Beleriand till the Third Age wars against Angmar)

Akallabeth time period
the Donwnfall of Numenor story would benefit from adding to the previously mentioned list such characters like

Inzilbêth (for the context besides it would add some interesting drama)
Lindórië and her brother Eärendur, the Lord of Andúnië
Ar-Gimilzôr
Inziladun/Tar-Palantir
Gimilkhâd
Ar-Pharazôn
Tar-Miriel
Sauron
Amandil
Elendil
Isildur
Anarion (plus their wives and sons, eldest sons of Isildur born in Numenor, also Meneldil son of Anarion was the last man born in Numenor though he was 1 year old at the Downfall, still it's additional character)
so also Elendur, Aratan, Ciryon (Valandil the youngest was a child during War of the Last Alliance, plus the elder sons are mentioned more prominently in Disaster of Gladden Fields where they even get 'speaking lines' but here's the problem since Disaster of Gladden Fields is very beginning of Third Age so...)

As far as Tom Bombadil goes I was never bothered by him, he and Goldberry are side adventure but with connection to main Lotr plot (Tom is the one who provides plot important daggers of Westernesse for the Hobbit which allows to kill Witch-king, he also saves heroes hides two times) he serves some purposes in story, he shows there is depth to the world and as Tolkien specified in letters Tom Bombadil is intentional enigma expanding the world and it's mysterious forces. Tolkien also wrote:


Quote
“‘I don’t think Tom needs to philosophizing about, and is not impoved by it. But many have found him and odd or indeed discordant ingredient. In historical fact I put him in because I had already ‘invented’ him independently…and wanted an ‘adventure’ on the way. But I kept him in, and as he was, because he represents certain things otherwise left out…..he is then an ‘allegory’, or an exemplar, a particular embodying of pure (real) natural science: the spirit that desires knowledge of other things, their history and nature, because they are ‘other’ and wholly independent of the enquiring mind, a spirit coeval with the rational mind, and entirely unconcerned with ‘doing’ anything with the knowledge: Zoology and Botany not Cattle-breeding or Agriculture….Also T. B. exhibits another point in his attitude to the Ring, and its failure to affect him….The power of the Ring over all concerned, even the Wizards or Emissaries, is not delusion-but it is not the whole picture, even of the then state and content of the Universe.*'” (Tolkien, Letter 153, p 192)


Tom Bombadil and Treebeard plus several other oldest Ents have little role per se but they are out there in the background in those times. At best they could get cameos. As Treebeard said (and Elrond mentioned it as one quote posted by someone showed).


Quote
"Aye, aye, there was all one wood once upon a time: from here to the Mountains of Lune, and this was just the East End.

'Those were the broad days! Time was when I could walk and sing all day and hear no more than the echo of my own voice in the hollow hills. The woods were like the woods of Lothlórien. only thicker stronger, younger. And the smell of the air! I used to spend a week just breathing.'



Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Wed, 3:16pm

Post #34 of 40 (190 views)
Shortcut
Great post! [In reply to] Can't Post

As I said before, I am not generally a big fan of idle speculation (though that is about all we have at this point), but that is a well developed, well-thought-out, and well-stated post. Well done!



Quote
Erestor
Galdor of the Havens
Gildor Inglorion
Lindir
Glorfindel (texts of HoME allude to him being the same Glorfindel from Gondolin returned to Middle-earth, but it's too difficult to tell whether the Amazon could use this)


It's unclear whether Amazon can use any of them, really. If the rights to LOTR remain with the Zaentz Company and were not included in this deal, it could be that they can't use any characters from LOTR at all. That would be odd, and I don't really believe it to be the case. But at this point we just don't know. Though it may be worth taking another look at the rights issue.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Wed, 3:28pm

Post #35 of 40 (190 views)
Shortcut
Glorfindel and Other Elves [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Speaking of characters from Lotr who would definitely be alive in Second Age, some minor elven characters could be added, they were around back then after all. So characters like:

Erestor
Galdor of the Havens
Gildor Inglorion
Lindir
Glorfindel (texts of HoME allude to him being the same Glorfindel from Gondolin returned to Middle-earth, but it's too difficult to tell whether the Amazon could use this)


Yes, most (if not all) of these characters would have hailed from the First Age. Most might even have been part of the Councils of the Wise that we know included Elrond, Círdan, Galadriel and probably Celeborn and Amroth of Lórien, though Glorfindel would just as likely have dwelt in Valinor during the time of the series; the subject of when he and the Blue Wizards arrived in Middle-earth is a controversial one.

I'm not convinced that Lindir would have been counted among the Wise; as far as we know he was little more than an elven minstral who had befriended Bilbo in Rivendell. This is supported by the fact that Lindir is not named as one of the Eldar who took part in the Council of Elrond.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Wed, 3:36pm)


InTheChair
Lorien

Wed, 3:58pm

Post #36 of 40 (183 views)
Shortcut
Doesn't it mean something like The Enemy commander? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've also seen it speculated* that the Gothmog who was the lieutenant of Minas Morgul and who commanded Sauron's army at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields following the fall of the Lord of the Nazgûl might also have been a Ringwraith.

This is possible, although if they intend to pay any kind of homage to the meaning of Sindarin names using the name Gothmog would be doubtful.


(This post was edited by InTheChair on Wed, 3:59pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Wed, 4:20pm

Post #37 of 40 (176 views)
Shortcut
Gothmog [In reply to] Can't Post

In The Silmarillion, at least, Gothmog seems to have been a proper name given to the Lord of the Balrogs. The Gothmog of the Battle of the Pelannor Fields is clearly a different character, but he does seem to share the same name. It does not seem to be used as a title.


Quote
...if the Rohirrim at their onset were thrice outnumbered by the Haradrim alone, soon their case became worse; for a new strength came now streaming to the field out of Osgiliath. There they had been mustered for the sack of the city and the rape of Gondor, waiting for the call of their Captain. He was now destroyed, but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand, Southrons in scarlet, and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues.


Now, Gothmog might well have been an Uruk, Olog-hai (Black Troll) or even a Man (perhaps of Black Númenórean descent). It is pure speculation to suppose that he might have been a Nazgûl. It seems most likely to me that he was Uruk-hai.

The name itself does sound Sindarin, but maybe it had been adapted into the Black Speech.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Wed, 4:28pm)


Solicitr
Rohan

Thu, 3:53pm

Post #38 of 40 (132 views)
Shortcut
Since [In reply to] Can't Post

...the Lieutenant of Barad-dur, the Mouth of Sauron, was a Black Numenorean it wouldn't be a stretch to opine that the Lieutenant of Morgul was one also.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Thu, 3:59pm

Post #39 of 40 (129 views)
Shortcut
Possibly [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
[Since]...the Lieutenant of Barad-dur, the Mouth of Sauron, was a Black Numenorean it wouldn't be a stretch to opine that the Lieutenant of Morgul was one also.


Maybe, though Gothmog seems (to me, at least) an unlikely name for a Man of Black Númenórean descent unless it was bestowed upon him by Sauron himself. This might make it, effectively, a title, if not a formal one.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)


Wainrider
Bree

Fri, 11:09pm

Post #40 of 40 (85 views)
Shortcut
Characters [In reply to] Can't Post

The only ones I'm really interested in "meeting" are Gil Galad, Celembrimbor, Círdan and maybe Ar-Pharazon.

If they skip Cirdan again (the two second clip in the Movie doesn't count) I think we should boycott Cool.

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.