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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jun 11 2019, 11:37am
Post #26 of 61
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"But there is much to read in that book, and I cannot claim to have seen more than a page or two."
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I love how this shows what a philologist Tolkien was, to describe a relationship to another person in literary terms! 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 13 2019, 12:53am
Post #27 of 61
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It's time for yet a bit more BS!
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I found one more Book Spoiler that looks at Pippin's growing relationship with Gandalf during their stay in Minas Tirith... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. The Siege of Gondor: Return of the King
..."Pippin was roused by Gandalf. Candles were lit in their chamber, for only a dim twilight came through the windows...
... '...What is the time?' said Pippin yawning.
... 'Past the second hour,' said Gandalf. 'Time to get up and make yourself presentable. You are summoned to the Lord of the City to learn your new duties.'
... 'And will he provide breakfast?'
... 'No! I have provided it: all that you will get till noon. Food is now doled out by order.'
... Pippin looked ruefully at the small loaf and (he thought) very inadequate pat of butter which was set out for him, beside a cup of thin milk. 'Why did you bring me here?' he said.
... 'You know quite well... ...To keep you out of mischief; and if you do not like being here, you can remember that you brought it on yourself.' Pippin said no more.
... Before long he was walking with Gandalf once more down the cold corridor to the door of the Tower Hall. There Denethor sat in a grey gloom, like an old patient spider, Pippin thought; he did not seem to have moved since the day before....
... ...All now took leave of the Lord of the City and went to rest while they still could.... ...They did not speak until they were behind closed doors. Then at last Pippin took Gandalf's hand.
...'Tell me,' he said, 'is there any hope? For Frodo, I mean; or at least mostly for Frodo.'
...Gandalf put his hand on Pippin's head. 'There never was much hope... ...Just a fool's hope, as I have been told. And when I heard of Cirith Ungol---' He broke off and strode to the window, as if his eyes could pierce the night in the East. 'Cirith Ungol!' he muttered. 'Why that way, I wonder?' He turned. 'Just now, Pippin, my heart almost failed me, hearing that name... ...yet in truth I believe that the news that Faramir brings has some hope in it. For it seems clear that our Enemy has opened his war at last and made the first move while Frodo was still free... ...And yet, Pippin, I feel from afar his haste and fear. He has begun sooner than he would. Something has happened to stir him.'
... Gandalf stood for a moment in thought. 'Maybe,' he muttered. 'Maybe even your foolishness helped, my lad... ...we shall not know the answer till the Riders of Rohan come, if they do not come too late. There are evil days ahead. To sleep while we may!'
... 'But,' said Pippin.
... 'But what?' said Gandalf. 'Only one but will I allow tonight.'
... 'Gollum,' said Pippin. 'How on earth could they be going about with him, even following him? And I could see that Faramir did not like the place he was taking them to any more than you do. What is wrong?'... 'I cannot answer that now... ...Yet my heart guesses that Frodo and Gollum would meet before the end. For good, or for evil... ...treachery I fear; treachery of that miserable creature. But so it must be. Let us remember that a traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend. It can be so, sometimes....'"
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 13 2019, 12:57am
Post #28 of 61
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And I love this chapter of Pippin's tale in the War of the Ring ;)
TOLKIEN RULES!!!!!
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 13 2019, 10:43am
Post #29 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 13, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
1. A cherished summer in the Shire.
(not from the appendices)
..."...if Sam thought himself lucky, Frodo knew that he was more lucky himself; for there was not a hobbit in the Shire that was looked after with such care. When the labours of repair had all been planned and set going he took to a quiet life, writing a great deal and going through all his notes. He resigned the office of Deputy Mayor at the Free Fair that midsummer, and dear old Will Whitfoot had another seven years of presiding at Banquets.
...Merry and Pippin lived together for some time at Crickhollow... ...The two young Travellers cut a great dash in the Shire with their songs and their tales and their finery, and their wonderful parties. 'Lordly' folk called them, meaning nothing but good; for it warmed all hearts to see them go riding by with their mail-shirts so bright and their shields so splendid, laughing and singing songs of far away; and if they were now large and magnificent, they were unchanged otherwise, unless they were indeed more fairspoken and more jovial and full of merriment....
......Frodo and Sam, however, went back to ordinary attire, except that when there was need they both wore long grey cloaks, finely woven and clasped at the throat with beautiful brooches; and Mr. Frodo wore always a white jewel on a chain that he often would finger."
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 14 2019, 10:09am
Post #30 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 14, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The sons of Elrond meet the escort and bring Arwen to Edoras.
(from the appendices-no text)
...The Company had been travelling for nearly three weeks when Elrohir and Elladan meet Arwen (their sister), Elrond, Galadriel and Celeborn, Glorfindel and Erestor (Elrond's chief counsellors and Noldor of Rivendell), and other members Arwen's escort.
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 15 2019, 2:10pm
Post #31 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 15, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The Company espies the Mountains.
(determined from text)
..."The road begins to run gently downhill with much grass on sides. Hills are still on the north as the road drops through a cutting of red stone topped with tall pines, then crosses a long flat mile toward the river. The Company finally reach the Ford of Bruinen and they can clearly see the Misty Mountains as they make camp."
..."One morning they forded a river at a wide shallow place full of the noise of stones and foam. The far bank was steep and slippery. When they got to the top of it, leading their ponies, they saw that the great mountains had marched down very near to them. Already they seemed only a day's easy journey from the feet of the nearest. Dark and drear it looked, though there were patches of sunlight on its brown sides, and behind its shoulders the tips of snow-peaks gleamed.
..."Is that The Mountain?" asked Bilbo in a solemn voice, looking at it with round eyes. He had never seen a thing that looked so big before.
..."Of course not!" said Balin. "That is only the beginning of the Misty Mountains, and we have to get through... ...somehow before we can come into Wilderland beyond. And it is a deal of a way even from the other side of them to the Lonely Mountain in the East where Smaug lies on our treasure."
..."O!" said Bilbo, and just at that moment he felt more tired than he ever remembered feeling before. He was thinking once again of his comfortable chair before the fire in his favourite sitting-room in his hobbit-hole, and of the kettle singing. Not for the last time!"
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 16 2019, 12:47pm
Post #32 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 16, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Gandalf searches out the path into the valley of Rivendell.
(determined from text)
..."Gandalf led the way. "We must not miss the road, or we shall be done for... ...We need food, for one thing, and rest in reasonable safety—also it is very necessary to tackle the Misty Mountains by the proper path, or else you will get lost in them, and have to come back and start at the beginning again (if you ever get back at all)."
......"You are come to the very edge of the Wild, as some of you may know. Hidden somewhere ahead of us is the fair valley of Rivendell where Elrond lives in the Last Homely House. I sent a message by my friends, and we are expected."
......They were growing anxious, for they now saw that the house might be hidden almost anywhere between them and the mountains... ...Altogether it was a very slow business following the track even guided by Gandalf, who seemed to know his way about pretty well.
...His head and beard wagged this way and that as he looked for the stones... ...but they seemed no nearer to the end of the search when the day began to fail. Tea-time had long gone by, and it seemed supper-time would soon do the same. There were moths fluttering about, and the light became very dim, for the moon had not risen... ...They came to the edge of a steep fall in the ground so suddenly that Gandalf's horse nearly slipped down the slope.
..."Here it is at last!" he called, and the others gathered round him and looked over the edge... ...Their spirits rose as they went down and down... ...and there was a comfortable feeling in the twilight. The last green had almost faded out of the grass, when they came at length to an open glade not far above the banks of the stream.
..."Hmmm! it smells like elves!" thought Bilbo, and he looked up at the stars. They were burning bright and blue. Just then there came a burst of song like laughter in the trees...
......They were elves of course. Soon Bilbo caught glimpses of them as the darkness deepened. He loved elves, though he seldom met them; but he was a little frightened of them too. Dwarves don't get on well with them. Even decent enough dwarves like Thorin and his friends think them foolish (which is a very foolish thing to think)...
..."...Well, well!" said a voice. "Just look! Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, my dear! Isn't it delicious!"
..."Most astonishing wonderful!"
..."...You are a little out of your way," said the elf: "...We will set you right, but you had best get on foot, until you are over the bridge. Are you going to stay a bit and sing with us, or will you go straight on? Supper is preparing over there... ...I can smell the wood-fires for the cooking."
...Tired as he was, Bilbo would have liked to stay awhile. Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars, not if you care for such things. Also he would have liked to have a few private words with these people that seemed to know his name and all about him.... ...He thought their opinion of his adventure might be interesting. Elves know a lot and are wondrous folk for news, and know what is going on among the peoples of the land, as quick as water flows, or quicker...
......And so at last they all came to the Last Homely House, and found its doors flung wide."
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 17 2019, 12:14am
Post #33 of 61
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A bit was left off:
June 16, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. They set out for Gondor.
(from the appendices-no text)
....The Escort of Arwen leaves Edoras to travel to Minas Tirith. With her are Elrond (Lord of Rivendell), Elrohir and Elladan (her twin brothers), Galadriel and Celeborn (Lady and Lord of the Galadrim), Glorfindel and Erestor (Elrond's chief counsellor).
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 17 2019, 11:48am
Post #34 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 17, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The house of Elrond.
(determined from text)
..."Now it is a strange thing, but things that are good to have and days that are good to spend are soon told about, and not much to listen to; while things that are uncomfortable, palpitating, and even gruesome, may make a good tale, and take a deal of telling anyway. They stayed long in that good house, fourteen days at least, and they found it hard to leave. Bilbo would gladly have stopped there for ever and ever—even supposing a wish could have taken him right back to his hobbit-hole without trouble....
......The master of the house was an elf-friend—one of those people whose fathers came into the strange stories before the beginning of History, the wars of the evil goblins and the elves and the first men in the North. In those days of our tale there were still some people who had both elves and heroes of the North for ancestors, and Elrond the master of the house was their chief.
...He was as noble and as fair in face as an elf-lord, as strong as a warrior, as wise as a wizard, as venerable as a king of dwarves, and as kind as summer. He comes into many tales, but his part in the story of Bilbo's great adventure is only a small one, though important.... ...His house was perfect, whether you liked food, or sleep, or work, or story-telling or singing, or just sitting and thinking best, or a pleasant mixture of them all. Evil things did not come into that valley."
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 18 2019, 11:47am
Post #35 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 18, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Gandalf, Bilbo & the Dwarves rest in Rivendell.
(determined from text)
..."All of them, the ponies as well, grew refreshed and strong in a few days there. Their clothes were mended as well as their bruises, their tempers and their hopes. Their bags were filled with food and provisions light to carry but strong to bring them over the mountain passes. Their plans were improved with the best advice."
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 19 2019, 11:43am
Post #36 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 19, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo, Gandalf, Thorin and Company rest in Rivendell.
(not from the appendices-no text-drabble)
...Bilbo found himself turned around in the fair house of Elrond as he sought the great Hall of Fire to meet Gandalf and the Dwarves. He prided himself on his sense of direction, but finally conceded to being lost. Just as he was about to retrace his steps, a green-clad Elf approached him smiling. 'Greetings Bilbo Baggins of the Shire. I am Gildor Inglorion. I'm sent to escort you to your friends and Lord Elrond.'
...'Ah! Good!' sighed the hobbit. 'I began to fear surviving Trolls and the Wild only to be lost within the walls of this grand house!'
June 19, 3019 (S.R. 1418)
1. In Minas Tirith.
(not from the appendices)
..."The Hobbits still remained in Minas Tirith, with Legolas and Gimli; for Aragorn was loth for the Fellowship to be dissolved. 'At last all such things must end,' he said, 'but I should have you wait a little while longer...."
......In those days the Companions of the Ring dwelt together in a fair house with Gandalf, and they went to and fro as they wished.
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 20 2019, 12:19pm
Post #37 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 20, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Sauron attacks Osgiliath.
(from the appendices)
...[Boromir recounts for the Council] "'But this very year, in the days of June, sudden war came upon us out of Mordor, and we were swept away. We were outnumbered, for Mordor has allied itself with the Easterlings and the cruel Haradrim; but it was not by numbers that we were defeated. A power was there that we have not felt before.
...'Some said that it could be seen, like a great black horseman... ...Wherever he came a madness filled our foes, but fear fell on our boldest, so that horse and man gave way and fled. Only a remnant of our eastern force came back, destroying the last bridge that still stood amid the ruins of Osgiliath.
...'I was in the company that held the bridge, until it was cast down behind us. Four only were saved by swimming; my brother and myself and two others. But still we fight on, holding all the west shores of Anduin...."
2. About the same time Thranduil is attacked and Gollum escapes.
(from the appendices)
...[Legolas recounts for the Council] "'Alas! alas!' cried Legolas, and in his fair elvish face there was great distress. 'The tidings that I was sent to bring must now be told. They are not good, but only here have I learned how evil they may seem to this company. Sméagol, who is now called Gollum, has escaped.'
...'Escaped?' cried Aragorn. 'That is ill news indeed. We shall all rue it bitterly, I fear. How came the folk of Thranduil to fail in their trust?'
...'Not through lack of watchfulness... ...but perhaps through over-kindliness... ...we fear that the prisoner had aid from others, and that more is known of our doings than we could wish. We guarded this creature day and night... ...much though we wearied of the task. But Gandalf bade us hope still for his cure, and we had not the heart to keep him ever in dungeons under the earth, where he would fall back into his old black thoughts.'
...'You were less tender to me,' said Glóin with a flash of his eyes, as old memories were stirred of his imprisonment in the deep places of the Elvenking's halls.
...'Now come!' said Gandalf. 'Pray do not interrupt, my good Glóin. That was a regrettable misunderstanding, long set right. If all the grievances... ...between Elves and Dwarves are to be brought up here, we may as well abandon this council.'
...'Glóin rose and bowed, and Legolas continued. 'In the days of fair weather we led Gollum through the woods; and there was a high tree standing alone far from the others which he liked to climb. Often we let him mount up to the highest branches, until he felt the free wind; but we set a guard at the tree's foot. One day, he refused to come down, and the guards had no mind to climb after him... ...so they sat by the tree far into the night.
...It was that very night of summer, yet moonless and starless, that Orcs came on us at unawares. We drove them off after some time; they were many and fierce... ...When the battle was over, we found that Gollum was gone, and his guards were slain or taken. It then seemed plain to us that the attack had been made for his rescue, and that he knew of it beforehand. How that was contrived we cannot guess; but Gollum is cunning, and the spies of the Enemy are many. The dark things that were driven out in the year of the Dragon's fall have returned in greater numbers, and Mirkwood is again an evil place, save where our realm is maintained.
...'We have failed to recapture Gollum. We came on his trail among those of many Orcs, and it plunged deep into the Forest, going south... ...and we dared not continue the hunt; for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way.'"
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 21 2019, 10:46am
Post #38 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 21, 2942 (S.R. 1342)
1. Bilbo and Gandalf travel home.
(not from the appendices-no text-drabble)
...Even though Bilbo was anxious to rest in the familiar comfort of his own home, he agreed with Gandalf it would be wise to stop for the night. Their ponies were moving slowly under their burden of the chests of gold, silver, and treasures accumulated during the journey. They had passed the fields where the trees of Woody End could be seen in the distance and finally came to Frogmorton. It was decided they should spend the night at The Floating Log and begin fresh in the morning travelling the last long miles to Hobbiton and finally to Bag End.
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 22 2019, 10:06am
Post #40 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 22, 2942 (S.R. 1342)
1. Bilbo returns to the Shire with the Ring. (That same year, Sauron returns in secret to Mordor)
(determined from text)
..."...a day came at last when they were in sight of the country where Bilbo had been born and bred, where the shapes of the land and of the trees were as well known to him as his hands and toes. Coming to a rise he could see his own Hill... ...And so they crossed the bridge and passed the mill by the river and came right back to Bilbo's own door....
..."...Bless me! What's going on?" he cried. There was a great commotion, and people of all sorts, respectable and unrespectable, were thick round the door, and many were going in and out—not even wiping their feet on the mat, as Bilbo noticed with annoyance.
...If he was surprised, they were more surprised still. He had arrived back in the middle of an auction! There was a large notice in black and red hung on the gate, stating that on June the Twenty-second Messrs. Grubb, Grubb, and Burrowes would sell by auction the effects of the late Bilbo Baggins Esquire, of Bag-End, Underhill, Hobbiton. Sale to commence at ten o'clock sharp. It was now nearly lunchtime, and most of the things had already been sold, for various prices from next to nothing... ...Bilbo's cousins the Sackville-Bagginses were, in fact, busy measuring his rooms to see if their own furniture would fit. In short Bilbo was "Presumed Dead," and not everybody that said so was sorry to find the presumption was wrong.
...The return of Mr. Bilbo Baggins created quite a disturbance, both under the Hill and over the Hill, and across the Water; it was a great deal more than a nine days' wonder. The legal bother... ...lasted for years. It was quite a long time before Mr. Baggins was in fact admitted to be alive again. The people who had got specially good bargains at the Sale took a deal of convincing; and in the end to save time Bilbo had to buy back quite a lot of his own furniture. Many of his silver spoons mysteriously disappeared and were never accounted for. Personally he suspected the Sackville-Bagginses. On their side they never admitted that the returned Baggins was genuine, and they were not on friendly terms with Bilbo ever after. They really had wanted to live in his nice hobbit-hole so very much."
We have been there and back again.
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(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Jun 22 2019, 10:08am)
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Jun 22 2019, 3:19pm
Post #41 of 61
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It was quite a long time before Mr. Baggins was in fact admitted to be alive again.
They're not even accusing him of being some fairy changeling, just refusing to admit he's alive because they don't want to return his possessions. Somehow hobbits are still lovable while being petty and selfish.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 23 2019, 12:29pm
Post #42 of 61
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It's time for some BS... and more of Bilbo's homecoming ;)
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Here's a Book Spoiler continuing the story of The Hobbit's return and how it became part of the "legend of Bilbo" through the gaffer's interpretation... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From A Long-Expected Party: The Fellowship of the Ring
..."'...I reckon it was a nasty knock for those Sackville-Bagginses. They thought they were going to get Bag End, that time when he went off and was thought to be dead. And then he comes back... ...and he goes on living and living, and never looking a day older, bless him! And suddenly he produces an heir, and has all the papers made out proper. The Sackville-Bagginses won't never see the inside of Bag End now....'
...'There's a tidy bit of money tucked away up there, I hear tell,' said a stranger, a visitor on business from Michel Delving in the Westfarthing. 'All the top of your hill is full of tunnels packed with chests of gold and silver, and jools, by what I've heard.'
...'Then you've heard more than I can speak to.... ...I know nothing about jools. Mr. Bilbo is free with his money, and there seems no lack of it; but I know of no tunnel-making. I saw Mr. Bilbo when he came back, a matter of sixty years ago, when I was a lad. I'd not long come prentice of old Holman... ...but he had me up at Bag End helping him to keep folks from trampling and trapessing all over the garden while the sale was on. And in the middle of it all Mr. Bilbo comes up the Hill with a pony and some mighty big bags and a couple of chests. I don't doubt they were mostly full of treasure he had picked up in foreign parts, where there be mountains of gold... ...but there wasn't enough to fill tunnels...'
......But the Gaffer did not convince his audience. The legend of Bilbo's wealth was now too firmly fixed in the minds of the younger generation of hobbits.
...'Ah, but he has likely enough been adding to what he brought at first,' argued the miller, voicing common opinion. 'He's often away from home. And look at the outlandish folk that visit him: dwarves coming at night, and that old wandering conjuror, Gandalf, and all. You can say what you like, Gaffer, but Bag End's a queer place, and its folk are queerer.'"
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 23 2019, 12:46pm
Post #43 of 61
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I'll bet for many of them, it was the first time they had something they normally would never be able to have... plus the status of being from Mad Baggins.
 ~~~ Mr. Deeds Goes To Town
He was was pixilated, though ;)
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 24 2019, 10:28am
Post #46 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 24, 2942 (S.R. 1342)
1. Bilbo as host.
(determined from text-no text-drabble)
...To the indignity and confusion of the townsfolk, Gandalf remained at Bag End for many days. Most of them weren't convinced that Bilbo hadn't had a spell cast on him by the wizard. Some insisted it wasn't Bilbo at all but some play-acting spy of Gandalf's out to get Bag End. But Bilbo was so content to be back in his home that he hardly noticed the whispers and wide berths he was given by those he met along Bagshot Row. Gandalf, however, was concerned for Bilbo's ability to re-enter his life and was careful not to show himself unnecessarily.
June 24, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo as host.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...Gandalf continues to enjoy a stay with Frodo at Bag End whilst Frodo slowly begins to lay his plans for leaving the Shire with the Ring.
June 24, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The Fellowship rests in Minas Tirith.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...Each of the Companions found it easy to adjust to life in the White City. They were warmly greeted by everyone they passed in the streets, enjoyed sleeping on soft feather pillows and with a roof over their heads, and to the delight of the Hobbits, the meals came regularly and in plenty.
June 24, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
1. Frodo as family.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...Newlyweds Sam and Rosie Gamgee have moved into Bag End with Frodo as the Shire enjoys the most pleasant Summer any can remember.
June 24, 3021 (S.R. 1421)
1. Uncle Frodo with his Elanor.
(not from the appendices-no text-drabble)
...Three month old Elanor has completely captured the hearts of all; especially her Uncle Frodo. He would spend endless hours with her sitting before the fire quietly singing or telling stories of her Gaffer and Gammer, Uncles Merry and Pippin, great Uncle Bilbo and Fellowship companions. Elanor would watch his face; listen to his soothing voice and, at times, comedy as evidenced by her laughter. Frodo could be seen with her cradled in his arms walking through Hobbiton and the fields and forest surrounding her home as he introduces her to the river, trees, flowers, and personalities of the sky.
We have been there and back again.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Jun 24 2019, 4:34pm
Post #47 of 61
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OK, so I can be pretty slow sometimes, I'll readily admit, and this was probably discussed on TORN 18 years ago when FOTR was released. The thing is, some things about the movies I just accepted at face value and never challenged them, but today I will since I'm finally catching up. The movies had Gandalf ducking his head repeatedly in Bag End, which makes total sense since it was built for hobbits and not Big People, but the books have him staying there frequently and for extended periods with implied comfort. So, did Bag End start out with tall ceilings that conveniently accommodate Big People?
I guess my head canon says yes. I don't object to the movies, because as soon as I saw Gandalf ducking his head about, I thought it was logical that he wouldn't fit there. But I like his friendship with Frodo and Bilbo and I like the idea of him being their guest and NOT walking about in a crouch. I'm willing to entertain both visions in my mind. What do you think?
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cats16
Half-elven
Jun 25 2019, 5:43am
Post #48 of 61
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...sort of lofted ceilings, for a lack of better phrasing? Funny enough, even the Wiki page for Bag End refers mentions that "hobbits are known to be of small stature, larger visitors are often seen, indicating that the ceilings are certainly taller than expected." I know we're not dealing with a cited reference to Tolkien there, but I thought it was amusing to see it in writing somewhere. And by the way, I would assume the topography of Bag End (within a hill) would be conducive to a more lofted-style ceiling, no? I'm saying this was absolutely zero knowledge of design/architecture, so I have no authority.
But we get a similar moment in Bree too, right? I could easily be forgetting something, but aren't all of the non-barroom scenes in the Prancing Pony in a hobbit-sized lodging? And yet we get lengthy conversations between Strider, the hobbits and Butterbur, whom I'd assume all moved about comfortably enough in and out of the lodging. Implied comfort here, too.
It reminds me of that observation (I think it's Billy Boyd in the EEs??) about how we get enough of a reminder of the races' height differences to have a mental picture, but Tolkien lets it fade to the background for awhile and brings it back only when necessary.
Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 25 2019, 12:08pm
Post #49 of 61
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Today in Middle-earth
June 25, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. King Elessar finds the sapling of the white tree.
(from the appendices)
..."There came a day when Gandalf could not be found, and the Companions wondered what was going forward. But Gandalf took Aragorn out from the City by night, and he brought him to the southern feet of Mount Mindolluin; and there they found a path made in ages past that few now dared to tread. For it led up onto the mountain to a high hallow where only the kings had been wont to go... ...to a high field below the snows that clad the lofty peaks, and it looked down over the precipice that stood behind the City. And standing there they surveyed the lands, for the morning was come; and they saw the towers of the City far below them like white pencils touched by the sunlight, and all the vale of Anduin was like a garden, and the Mountains of Shadow were veiled in a golden mist. Upon the one side their sight reached to the grey Emyn Muil, and the glint of Rauros was like a star twinkling far off; and upon the other side they saw the River like a ribbon laid down to Pelargir, and beyond that was... ...the Sea.
...And Gandalf said: 'This is your realm, and the heart of the greater realm that shall be. The Third Age of the world is ended, and the new age is begun... ...it is your task to order its beginning and to preserve what may be preserved. For though much has been saved, much must now pass away; and the power of the Three Rings also is ended. And all the lands that you see, and those that lie round about them, shall be dwellings of Men. For the time comes of the Dominion of Men, and the Elder Kindred shall fade or depart.'
...'I know it well, dear friend,' said Aragorn; 'but I would still have your counsel.'
...'Not for long now,' said Gandalf. 'The Third Age was my age. I was the Enemy of Sauron; and my work is finished. I shall go soon. The burden must lie now upon you and your kindred.'
...'But I shall die,' said Aragorn. 'For I am a mortal man, and though being what I am and of the race of the West unmingled, I may have life far longer than other men... ...when those who are now in the wombs of women are born and have grown old, I too shall grow old. And who then shall govern Gondor and those who look to this City as to their queen, if my desire be not granted? The Tree in the Court of the Fountain is still withered and barren. When shall I see a sign that it will ever be otherwise?'
...'Turn your face from the green world, and look where all seems barren and cold!' said Gandalf.
...'Then Aragorn turned, and there was a stony slope behind him... ...he was aware that alone there in the waste a growing thing stood. And he climbed to it, and saw that out of the very edge of the snow there sprang a sapling tree no more than three foot high. Already it had put forth young leaves long and shapely, dark above and silver beneath, and upon its slender crown it bore one small cluster of flowers whose white petals shone like the sunlit snow.
...Then Aragorn cried: 'Ye! utúvienyes! I have found it! Lo! here is a scion of the Eldest of Trees! But how comes it here? For it is not itself yet seven years old.'
......Gandalf coming looked at it, and said; 'Verily this is a sapling of the line of Nimloth the fair; and that was a seedling of Galathilion, and that a fruit of Telperion of many names, Eldest of Trees. Who shall say how it comes here in the appointed hour? But this is an ancient hallow, and ere the kings failed or the Tree withered in the court, a fruit must have been set here... ...the fruit of the Tree comes seldom to ripeness, yet the life within may then lie sleeping through many long years, and none can foretell the time in which it will awake. Remember this. For if ever a fruit ripens, it should be planted, lest the line die out of the world. Here it has lain hidden on the mountain, even as the race of Elendil lay hidden in the wastes of the North. Yet the line of Nimloth is older far than your line, King Elessar.'
...Then Aragorn laid his hand gently to the sapling, and lo! it seemed to hold only lightly to the earth, and it was removed without hurt; and Aragorn bore it back to the Citadel. Then the withered tree was uprooted, but with reverence; and... ...laid to rest in the silence of Rath Dínen. And Aragorn planted the new tree in the court by the fountain, and swiftly and gladly it began to grow; and when the month of June entered in it was laden with blossom.
...'The sign has been given,' said Aragorn, 'and the day is not far off.' And he set watchmen upon the walls."
We have been there and back again.
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 25 2019, 12:59pm
Post #50 of 61
(1592 views)
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The book description of hobbit holes has them built for comfort; but I'd assume hobbity-size comfort. That would mean low ceilings, right? I mean, if I was digging my home into a hill, I don't think I'd carve out anything more than necessary for my needs. It's so much more work and could weaken the strength of the ceiling/roof if you make it more shallow. But I think there were hobbits who would adjust their holes for... say... a wizard and dwarves who would stop by from time-to-time ;)
Then there's this from FotR Prologue: Concerning Hobbits (pg 27):
"The craft of building may have come from Elves or Men, but the Hobbits used it in their own fashion. They did not go in for towers. Their houses were usually long, low, and comfortable. The oldest kind were, indeed, no more than built imitations of smials, thatched with dry grass or straw, or roofed with turves, and having walls somewhat bulged. That stage, however, belonged to the early days of the Shire, and hobbit-building had long since been altered, improved by devices, learned from Dwarves, or discovered by themselves. A preference for round windows, and even round doors, was the chief remaining peculiarity of hobbit-architecture.
The houses and the holes of Shire-hobbits were often large, and inhabited by large families."
So it makes sense they (Bagginses especially) could have their ceilings raised (or floor lowered ?). OR additional rooms for visitors could be made with higher ceilings. However, I think once anyone made it to Bag End, there was mostly sitting, talking, eating and sleeping. A bit of a stoop now and again to get from point A to point B would be tolerable ;)
We have been there and back again.
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