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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
"Help us, Obi-Wan, you're our only hope" vs LOTR/TH
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CuriousG
Half-elven


Jun 1, 1:30pm

Post #1 of 41 (3052 views)
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"Help us, Obi-Wan, you're our only hope" vs LOTR/TH Can't Post

I was thinking how LOTR/TH brought Tolkien into popular culture to stay, and how there are memorable lines from the movies that get repurposed in other shows, such as "One does not simply walk into..." Even though that line gets reused a lot, I think it's with respect, not mockery.

So I couldn't think of any cheesy or bad lines from LOTR/TH that have entered popular culture such as the one from Star Wars I listed. I personally have no problem with that line, but it is lampooned mercilessly in comedy, with "It's a trap" running a strong second. Can you think of any bad lines from the Tolkien movies that are parodied in shows/blogs/comedy routines/etc, or do the movies escape unscathed?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 1, 2:21pm

Post #2 of 41 (2940 views)
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Maybe this one... [In reply to] Can't Post

"Fly, you fools!"

I'm sure that we can find a few more, especially if we look more the films than to the books.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage


Solicitr
Rohan

Jun 1, 3:31pm

Post #3 of 41 (2926 views)
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Well, [In reply to] Can't Post

The LR, yes. TH, not so much. I can't think of a single catchphrase from those that made it into the pop-culture lexicon.


2ndBreffest
Lorien


Jun 1, 4:12pm

Post #4 of 41 (2917 views)
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but... [In reply to] Can't Post

what about TH's classic line, "There could be anything down my trousers."? I'm fairly certain I've seen several porno movies pay homage to that little beauty.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jun 1, 4:52pm

Post #5 of 41 (2902 views)
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I have another SW one... [In reply to] Can't Post

... "I've got a bad feeling about this." or "These aren't the droids you're looking for." It comes up in every film. I watch for it like I do Stan Lee or the Wilhelm Scream ;)


LotR/TH (to name a few):
No one tosses a dwarf
You Shall Not Pass!
What about second breakfast?
references to Elevensies
references to Moots
My Captain, My King
There and Back Again
My Precioussssssssss



sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Jun 1, 4:54pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 1, 5:51pm

Post #6 of 41 (2889 views)
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This exchange from BotFA... [In reply to] Can't Post

TAURIEL: Why does it hurt so much?

THRANDUIL: Because it was real.

Pure cheese! Evil

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage


2ndBreffest
Lorien


Jun 1, 6:17pm

Post #7 of 41 (2879 views)
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The cheesiest... [In reply to] Can't Post

That line falls into the "so bad, its good" category. As much as I dislike these movies, that line, combined with the expression on his face when he delivers it, always gives me a good laugh.


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jun 2, 1:12am

Post #8 of 41 (2843 views)
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Now THAT is definitely one we can agree on! [In reply to] Can't Post

I loathed that entire subplot. Once the Feast of Starlight scene was over, everything after that regarding Tauriel was horrible. That line just about made me want to shoot Tauriel myself and knock Thranduil over the head with a two by four so he'd come back to his senses.

I think Tauriel had the potential to become an amazing original character, but the whole love story just ruined her character, IMHO, and turned her into a complete idiot on the battlefield (screaming your wuv bug's name in a dangerous combat situation with poor to non-existent visibility due to the structure you're in is hands down the most STUPID thing any soldier could do. Gives both yours and his position away to the enemy, and due to that idiocy Kili died and she almost did too. After 600 years of military training, she should have known better than to be so stupid Crazy).

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Happy reading everyone!


(This post was edited by Cirashala on Jun 2, 1:16am)


kzer_za
Lorien

Jun 2, 2:24am

Post #9 of 41 (2838 views)
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Looks like meat's back on our menu, boys! [In reply to] Can't Post

 I do like that scene in all its ridiculousness, though it's a bit of a guilty pleasure...


(This post was edited by kzer_za on Jun 2, 2:24am)


sevilodorf
Grey Havens


Jun 2, 11:23am

Post #10 of 41 (2782 views)
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Godzilla is stealing [In reply to] Can't Post

One ring to rule them all and turning it to One King to rule them all.

also Sam and his Po-tay-toes gets some play time.

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2ndBreffest
Lorien


Jun 2, 5:49pm

Post #11 of 41 (2748 views)
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yes [In reply to] Can't Post

All of PJ's subplots were bad, but that one stands out above the rest.


hanne
Lorien

Jun 3, 2:25am

Post #12 of 41 (2723 views)
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some sort of metrics? [In reply to] Can't Post

Number of google hits is a very looseygoosey measure, but in lieu of anything better, it looks like you are right and the "only hope" line rules pop culture utterly. But "One Anything to rule them all" and "not simply walking" is up there with not looking for droids. And "my Precious" has Admiral Akbar beat.


STAR WARS

1,700,000,000 - "Help me, *, you're my only hope"
675,000,000 - "These aren't the * you're looking for."
12,800,000 - "It's a trap"
894,000 - "I've got a bad feeling about this." (721,000 for "I have a bad feeling about this")


LORD OF THE RINGS

783,000,000 - "One * to rule them all"
505,000,000 - "one does not simply walk into *"
16,600,000 - "My Precious"
3,080,000 - "You Shall Not Pass!"
1,310,000 - "second breakfast"
154,000 - "Fly, you fools!"
67,800 - "Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!"
47,900 - "My Captain, My King"
33,000 - "Po-tay-toes"
3,820 - "No one tosses a dwarf"


HOBBIT

9,570,000 - "Because it was real." (probably lots of false positives for unrelated uses)
6,690,000 - "There and Back Again"
(I decline to google this one) "There could be anything down my trousers."


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 3, 2:48pm

Post #13 of 41 (2657 views)
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One more 'Star Wars' meme. [In reply to] Can't Post

"It's not my fault!" turns up 1,060,000,000 results on Bing! Granted, I'm sure that not nearly all of them are SW-related.

For Curious G: By the way, Leia's exact line is: "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only hope."

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 3, 2:55pm)


Hasuwandil
Rivendell

Jun 3, 8:49pm

Post #14 of 41 (2614 views)
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How bad is bad? [In reply to] Can't Post

Is it enough for it to have become a meme? Then I propose: "You have my sword...and you have my bow...and my axe!" (possibly replacing the weapons with something else).


Belegdir
Lorien


Jun 5, 3:30pm

Post #15 of 41 (2530 views)
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'It comes in pints?!' [In reply to] Can't Post

 


CuriousG
Half-elven


Jun 5, 5:50pm

Post #16 of 41 (2517 views)
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Thanks for doing the metrics [In reply to] Can't Post

They are as close to numbers as I think we'll get.

That line from TH "Because it was real" probably would rank as the cheesiest from the whole franchise, but you're right, it's pretty general in the words it uses, so hard to separate it out.

I guess we'll let Star Wars reign with the cheesiest lines to enter pop culture. I think that Yoda-speak probably gets imitated more than Gollum-speak too. Influential he was.


hanne
Lorien

Jun 6, 4:14pm

Post #17 of 41 (2400 views)
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true that is [In reply to] Can't Post

And there's no way of applying the google test for Yoda speak - it can and is used in so many more situations than just gloating over something precious.

Thank you for an interesting discussion! I'm not sad that Tolkien isn't as cheesy as Star Wars :)

I note that the simply walk into Morder line was by Jackson, Walsh and Boyens, while of course One Ring to rule them all and Precious are all Tolkien. I thought "You shall not pass" was Tolkien too but huh, it's not - he wrote "You cannot pass".


CuriousG
Half-elven


Jun 6, 5:09pm

Post #18 of 41 (2390 views)
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It's all in the delivery, isn't it? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think seeing "One simply does not walk into..." in print doesn't convey Sean Bean's memorable delivery, just as movie-Gandalf's lines in Moria are much more dramatic than the way my head canon plays out. There's something about the book description that makes me think book-Gandalf has lowered his voice and is speaking firmly but not terribly emotionally or loudly. I have no idea why, but that's how I picture it (maybe because the Balrog never says a word so the scene is essentially taut with silence?). Whereas movie-Gandalf is emotional as he should be--it's a short but dramatic scene that needs to be punched up for the audience to appreciate it, plus he has to be heard over the music/drums.

For me, the most memorable part of the book passage is Gandalf's cryptic remarks about Secret Fire, Anor, and Udun--it's almost like he's reciting a spell in an arcane language. No one on first read has a clue what he's talking about.


Quote
The Balrog reached the bridge. Gandalf stood in the middle of the span, leaning on the staff in his left hand, but in his other hand Glamdring gleamed, cold and white. His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings. It raised the whip, and the thongs whined and cracked. Fire came from its nostrils. But Gandalf stood firm.

‘You cannot pass,’ he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. ‘I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass.’

The Balrog made no answer. The fire in it seemed to die, but the darkness grew. It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall; but still Gandalf could be seen, glimmering in the gloom; he seemed small, and altogether alone: grey and bent, like a wizened tree before the onset of a storm.

From out of the shadow a red sword leaped flaming.

Glamdring glittered white in answer.

There was a ringing clash and a stab of white fire. The Balrog fell back, and its sword flew up in molten fragments. The wizard swayed on the bridge, stepped back a pace, and then again stood still.

‘You cannot pass!’ he said.



Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jun 6, 5:47pm

Post #19 of 41 (2386 views)
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I love that! [In reply to] Can't Post

This scene is where Gandalf essentially reveals exactly WHO he is and exactly WHO sent him (Eru Illuvatar/God) on his mission. A "Servant of the Secret Fire"-well, that secret fire is Eru Himself (note he says that, not servant of the Valar ;)

Wielder of the flame of Arnor- the flame that Eru instilled in the world at its creation that only comes from Him.

Flame of Udun- flame of hell (Udun is hell in Sindarin)
It is very subtly woven in, but Tolkien's faith shines very much here in those simple two sentences.

I do wonder if the rest of the fellowship picked up on it though, or if they were a little too busy running to get it. I bet if he had said that under any other circumstance at least Legolas and Aragorn would have been completely dumbfounded (knowing he got sent by the Valar is one thing; that he was sent directly by Eru Himself would most definitely get their attention).

Not sure if the others would have any clue what those two sentences really meant, but those two certainly would have.

My writing and novels:

My Hobbit Fanfiction

My historical novel print and kindle version

My historical novels ebook version compatible with all ereaders

You can also find my novel at most major book retailers online (and for those outside the US who prefer a print book, you can find the print version at Book Depository). Search "Amazing Grace Amanda Longpre'" to find it.

Happy reading everyone!


hanne
Lorien

Jun 6, 6:50pm

Post #20 of 41 (2379 views)
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Yeah! [In reply to] Can't Post

Sean Bean's suppressed frustration was great. And Ian McKellen took

‘You cannot pass,’ he said.

and dialled it all the way up to

'You! Shall! NOT! PAASSS!!," he scenery-chewed, and it was awesome indeed :)

But so is the book, I'm glad you quoted the whole thing. The tension is incredible, and Gandalf's power is mysterious, terrifying and numinous. If I had to choose the most effective delivery of the scene, I'd give the book the edge, as good as the movie version was.


CuriousG
Half-elven


Jun 6, 8:19pm

Post #21 of 41 (2385 views)
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It deserves its own explanatory appendix [In reply to] Can't Post

and never made any sense to me until I read The Silmarillion. I think you're right about who would and wouldn't understand him. I'm assuming that Aragorn's upbringing in Rivendell included a decent education on the spiritual foundations of Middle-earth. With Legolas, I'd assume he knew, though it's hard to say.

I doubt that Boromir would know since he was no "wizard's pupil," but even given Denethor's scornful use of that phase, I think when Gandalf told him "For I also am a steward. Did you not know?", that Gandalf is showing he assumes Denethor knows exactly what he means--that he's on a mission, from Valinor at least. Hence Denethor knows about Valar and Maiar, etc. Numenor had that big temple to Eru, so he should know about him too.

But with the hobbits and Gimli, my assumption is that Gandal'fs words were over their heads.


Solicitr
Rohan

Jun 7, 10:44pm

Post #22 of 41 (2284 views)
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Denethor [In reply to] Can't Post

was in many ways very like Faramir, which is perhaps why they didn't get along. He was scholarly and perceptive, but used his insight for advantage rather than empathy and "was sooner moved to scorn than pity."

I've believed ever since the movies came out that John Noble was completely wrong for the role (much as I like him as an actor); Denethor would much better have been played by someone of the Basil Rathbone/Peter Cushing/Charles Dance sort.


(This post was edited by Solicitr on Jun 7, 10:45pm)


CuriousG
Half-elven


Jun 7, 11:07pm

Post #23 of 41 (2280 views)
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Yeah, movie-Denethor didn't work for me [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand the movie didn't have time to develop his character like the book and instead started with him as a neurotic, the way he ended, but it still didn't work. And yeah, even the face was wrong: Denethor was old and probably wrinkled, but I see him as having very sharp features even then. (like Peter Cushing)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 8, 1:27am

Post #24 of 41 (2266 views)
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I would blame the screenplay for that. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I've believed ever since the movies came out that John Noble was completely wrong for the role (much as I like him as an actor); Denethor would much better have been played by someone of the Basil Rathbone/Peter Cushing/Charles Dance sort.


I don't think Noble is at fault here; he gave Peter Jackson the performance that the writer/producer/director wanted.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage


VeArkenstone
Lorien

Jun 8, 7:42pm

Post #25 of 41 (2185 views)
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"RUN!" Gandalf gives this advice at least 6 to 8 times to Men, Dwarves & Hobbits. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Please, call me Ve.

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