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The One Ring Forums: Off Topic: The Pollantir:
Let's say that Bilbo didn't/couldn't go home

Cirashala
Tol Eressea


May 24, 11:22pm

Post #1 of 22 (3191 views)
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Let's say that Bilbo didn't/couldn't go home Can't Post

After the BO5A (filmverse) for whatever reason. He stayed, but Dain didn't forgive him for the betrayal with the Arkenstone (movie Dain was less reasonable than Thorin). Dain made peace with Bard as a trade partner and compensated the Laketowners accordingly, since Thorin had given his word to them and Dain would honor it, since his main gripe at the Erebor gate was with Thranduil and the elves (temporarily set aside for the battle, but still not exactly friends afterward).

Do you think that, given the desperate need Bard had, and the fact that Erebor was vital to the Laketown survivors' survival (that's a tongue-twister!) Bard would have been willing to take Bilbo in? Or would he have turned him away instead of risking Dain's wrath and told him to stay with the elves? That whole "for the good of my people" bit...

And do you think that Dain would have thrown a fit about Bilbo being allowed to live in Dale after the betrayal? If Dain had threatened to cut off economic ties (or deny Thorin's promised gold if the "traitor" remained in Dale), would Bard have had to succumb to the demands rather than risking his people's safety and/or survival for the sake of one hobbit?

I think Bard would have taken him in, BUT...he's no longer a lone ranger, so to speak- he's now responsible for ALL the former Laketowners. He certainly wasn't willing to mess with Thranduil with the dwarves after their escape-not until Balin offered him too much coin to refuse. He needed the money to care for his children. So if he needs the money from Erebor to care for his people, and the only stipulation was that "the betrayer Bilbo Baggins" was not to be permitted to reside in Dale, do you think he would have been forced to turn him away to care for his own? And would he have done so?



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CuriousG
Half-elven


May 25, 3:45pm

Post #2 of 22 (3105 views)
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Hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the what-if scenario!

I guess my own perception is that Bard is more politically calculating and less likely to take Bilbo in. I suppose I could see a scenario where he initially shelters Bilbo, then Dain sends him an ultimatum to rid himself of that darned hobbit, and Bard complies, needing the trade money from Erebor to rebuild Dale (as well as Dwarven labor), and reasoning that Bilbo came from somewhere else, so he can just go back there, wherever it is. It's not like he'd be exiling a Laketowner away from the only home they'd ever known. Bilbo was just a foreign traveler.

What I wonder is if, by the same token, Thranduil would shelter Bilbo just to flip his nose at Dain?


Lissuin
Valinor


May 25, 4:44pm

Post #3 of 22 (3099 views)
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Bilbo returned to Rivendell. [In reply to] Can't Post

No question about it. Evil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkj6QOmeqCQ

Oh, and he flew. Wink


(This post was edited by Lissuin on May 25, 4:47pm)


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


May 25, 5:08pm

Post #4 of 22 (3092 views)
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I love how Elrond pretends to look offended [In reply to] Can't Post

at Bilbo's question and makes him sweat for a minute there Laugh Wish we had more of these "quiet moments" in the films.

But yeah- maybe he hitched a ride on the ME Eagle Taxi Service and hopped off at Rivendell Tongue

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Cirashala
Tol Eressea


May 25, 5:13pm

Post #5 of 22 (3090 views)
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I could see that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Can you imagine how the scenario would be playing out in Thranduil's mind?

Hmm...if I take you in, Dain is going to be utterly furious, levitate from his hoity-toity throne and spontaneously combust...He slowly smiles, relishing in the thought, before realizing that everyone in his court, including the aforementioned hobbit, is staring at him in confusion. He looks down at the nervous hobbit with a huge grin.

"Sure, you can live here! And guard-be sure to deliver the news to Dain...personally." Take that, you stupid dwarfling! That's what you get for calling me an elvish princess!


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CuriousG
Half-elven


May 29, 2:00pm

Post #6 of 22 (2755 views)
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To be fair, Thranduil did look like a princess [In reply to] Can't Post

So I'm not sure whose side I'm on. Smile

But yeah, I think that Thranduil would love to get even that way. It's pretty real-world too, like when Russia sheltered Ed Snowden just to make the US mad. That's politics.


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


May 29, 5:37pm

Post #7 of 22 (2734 views)
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Politics are a nasty business [In reply to] Can't Post

but come on- those eyebrows? I can see the longer hair, but I don't think Thranduil looked exactly like a princess...but man did that comment make him mad lol!

You see him smirking confidently at Dain's commentary, but the second the dwarf's back was turned...if looks could kill, Dain would have been fossilized! Thranduil was PISSED.

To be fair, I think I'd be a bit irked too if I was a tall, proud elven king and was called a princess to my face in front of my entire army...

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(This post was edited by Cirashala on May 29, 5:38pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 29, 8:29pm

Post #8 of 22 (2716 views)
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Even given that this is the film universe... [In reply to] Can't Post

I do find it hard to imagine that Bilbo would not or could not go home unless Gandalf was unable to accompany him.

We don't really know that Dain's attitude towards Thranduil and his folk was essentially unchanged after the BotFA. Certainly he had some reason to come to respect the battle-prowess of the Elves, though I can see how the cultural divide between the two cultures might still create some friction.

I do see Bilbo as likely to have wintered as a guest of the Wood-elves, if not with Beorn as in the book. I still think that he would have returned to Bag End, but without Gandalf he might have had to wait until he could arrange an escort (perhaps one of the companions of Thorin, returning to the Blue Mountains to collect his family). I'm sure that King Bard would have been willing to help him out, including providing room and board until such travel arrangements could be made. If Dain could be stubborn then so too could Bard.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


May 29, 8:49pm

Post #9 of 22 (2713 views)
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True on the stubborn bit [In reply to] Can't Post

I have no doubt that Bilbo would have found some way to go home, even if he had to go back home with nothing but some provisions and a map so he could figure out where the heck he was going. He's too much of a hobbit not to.

My scenario was simply based on a "what if he couldn't", as in it was impossible for him to go home for whatever reason. In that scenario, I was curious as to what Bard would do, since his people were facing a long (and given the northerly location, no doubt a brutal) winter very much ill-equipped and ill-provisioned, and the only real source of gold to be had to buy supplies was from Erebor and the recompense due them.

And THAT was wholly dependent on Dain being willing to give it to him, because he certainly could not have entered the mountain and taken it himself without making the dwarves a leeeddddddllllle bit cranky.

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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 29, 9:54pm

Post #10 of 22 (2709 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see Dain withholding from Bard his fair share of the treasure over the housing of Bilbo Baggins. He might not be quite as fair-minded as the Dain Ironfoot of the book, but he is revealed to be more reasonable at the end then we are first led to expect.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


May 29, 10:07pm

Post #11 of 22 (2705 views)
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Where do we see his reasonable side? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just out of curiosity...

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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 29, 10:20pm

Post #12 of 22 (2703 views)
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We largely have to read between the lines. [In reply to] Can't Post

Dain does cooperate with Thranduil and Bard once the Orcs are revealed. I presume he honors the agreement between Thorin and the Men of the Lake as in the book, though I'm not sure this is made clear even in the extended edition of BotFA. Granted, his film character is all over the place, so it's hard to make many definitive statements about him. I acknowledge that I might be giving film-Dain more credit than he merits.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 29, 10:24pm)


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


May 30, 12:23am

Post #13 of 22 (2681 views)
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I do wish that Jackson had shown the reconciliation [In reply to] Can't Post

We do know that the Men of the Lake honored what is presumably Thorin's body being returned to Erebor, and it is implied that everyone was just tired and worn out at this point and went home to lick their wounds.

But there was nothing in the films about the reconciliations/reparations, etc, and I dearly would have liked to see that-even if the critics balked at the "too many endings" bit again.

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Happy reading everyone!


(This post was edited by Cirashala on May 30, 12:24am)


Darkstone
Immortal


May 30, 4:02am

Post #14 of 22 (2677 views)
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Hmmmm... [In reply to] Can't Post

The Lakemen said that there was a new terror abroad, a ghost that ate potatoes. It climbed trees to find apples; it crept into holes to find mushrooms; it slipped through windows to find seed-cakes.
-Barely Started Tales

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Cirashala
Tol Eressea


May 30, 11:41am

Post #15 of 22 (2634 views)
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LOL [In reply to] Can't Post

And all anyone ever saw of it was the faintest of shadows Tongue

My writing and novels:

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Happy reading everyone!


CuriousG
Half-elven


May 30, 1:25pm

Post #16 of 22 (2628 views)
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Shouldn't there be a warning system for posts? Darkstone's just gave me nightmares. [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially the potato ghost.


sevilodorf
Grey Havens


May 31, 1:30pm

Post #17 of 22 (2527 views)
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Shades of Charlie Brown's Potato Ghost// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Home of TheOneRing.net Best FanFic stories of 2005 and 2006 "The Last Grey Ship" and "Ashes, East Wind, Hope That Rises" by Erin Rua

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Darkstone
Immortal


Jun 1, 2:18pm

Post #18 of 22 (2404 views)
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The eyes! The eyes!! / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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sevilodorf
Grey Havens


Jun 1, 10:12pm

Post #19 of 22 (2363 views)
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You must admit it has appeal// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Fourth Age Adventures at the Inn of the Burping Troll http://burpingtroll.com
Home of TheOneRing.net Best FanFic stories of 2005 and 2006 "The Last Grey Ship" and "Ashes, East Wind, Hope That Rises" by Erin Rua

(Found in Mathoms, LOTR Tales Untold)




Annael
Immortal


Jun 5, 4:00pm

Post #20 of 22 (2251 views)
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I'm never going to think of Bilbo in the same way again. [In reply to] Can't Post

Who KNOWS what he got up to in the Shire, all those years?

Lobelia's complaints that someone kept pinching her were dismissed out of hand by everyone who knew her, but the bruises were real . . .

I am a dreamer of words, of written words. I think I am reading; a word stops me. I leave the page. The syllables of the words begin to move around The words take on other meanings as if they had the right to be young.

-- Gaston Bachelard

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
my blog: https://jodybower.com/myths-archetypes-in-film/


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Jun 5, 10:25pm

Post #21 of 22 (2211 views)
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HAHA!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I...can totally see him doing that! Sly

My writing and novels:

My Hobbit Fanfiction

My historical novel print and kindle version

My historical novels ebook version compatible with all ereaders

You can also find my novel at most major book retailers online (and for those outside the US who prefer a print book, you can find the print version at Book Depository). Search "Amazing Grace Amanda Longpre'" to find it.

Happy reading everyone!


Darkstone
Immortal


Jun 7, 11:48pm

Post #22 of 22 (1990 views)
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Rises from the most pretentious potato patch every Beltaine. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

******************************************
Character is what we do on the internet when we think no one knows who we are.


(This post was edited by Darkstone on Jun 7, 11:50pm)

 
 

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