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The One Ring Forums: Off Topic: Off Topic:
What do you MISS and DON'T MISS
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Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 13 2007, 11:36pm

Post #1 of 39 (328 views)
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What do you MISS and DON'T MISS Can't Post

What do you MISS and DON'T MISS About old boards . . . WHAT'S COOL about new boards. What stories do you have to share about switching over. Any bumps and bruises? What habits do you have from old boards that are hard to break? What do you find humorous? What is hard to get used to. What happy delights and joys did you discover. What would you never give up and go back for? What are you ambivalent about?

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
my answers…

OLD BOARD

WHAT I MISS…
- "(No Text - Link Inside)" … a whole lot!
- The link window at the bottom of the page (only a little)
- Tags: "nt" and spoiler tags (only a tiny bit)
- The collate function (works quite differently from the flat)
- new responses being on top in a thread

I say a sad and fond farewell to these wonderful features.

DON'T MISS...
- Tiny little window to type in (text box) (I really don't miss that)
- The old spell-check
- The single page thing where threads slip into oblivion
- How the "how many hours, days, weeks" menu didn't work
- How hard it was to open old wonderful threads
- How 'Mini-Biographies' didn't work
…sure there is a lot more, but it's all fading from memory already

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
NEW BOARD

DELIGHTS of NEW BOARD:
- I can set my TEXT BOX to ANY SIZE I want…yeah!
- EDIT FEATURE…super cool (and it never expires on Fan Art board)
- FAN ART board…yeah!
- Off Topic board
- TORn Moot board
- Multiple pages
- Avatar feature (and at last I can upload that from my computer)
- Private Messages
- A functioning spell-checker
- Jump To Forum menu/button on bottom of window
- Profile and Display features
- Who’s Online (especially in Hawaii in the evening)
- Expand / Collapse feature which I forget to use.
- Search Posts (haven't used it, but I am glad its there)
..and because of new boards, I was able to get help with uploading images to an image storage sight and post my art here.
…I am sure there is more, but it will come to me later.

Frustrations of new board:
- Can't use Advanced Editor on Safari or my brand new fancy Mac.
- Can NOT upload pictures from my computer
- Flat Mode: Can't figure out who's responding to who
- New responses falling to bottom of thread (they seem to get burried)
- Cant do "No Text - Link Inside"
- Can't delete my own posts after a certain time; I could on the old board, as long as no one answered.
- Not having an menu available of all the boards on the left to just click
- Annoying subject wrap to beginning of margin
…Can't think of anymore right now

HUMOROUS:
Spellchecker's suggestions for how to spell Tolkien to TORn posters: Talking, Telecommunication(s),


BUMPS and BRUISES:
(I have gotten so used to things now I can barely remember the things that gave me trouble at first.)
- My response on the opening day fiesta seemed to disappear.
- Navigating around seemed confusing at first
- I spent much of the first day trying to figure out how to get my images uploaded…only to discover after hours and hours of wasted effort that the upload functions on the bottom do not work for me. Then I had to figure out how to use Photo-Bucket at long last.

HABBITS THAT WON'T BREAK:
- I still scroll down to bottom when I want to reply, then have to scroll back to the top again…arrrgh!
…can't think of anymore right now

AMBIVALENT ABOUT:
- Getting Emails to Every Response…fills up my email very fast, one more thing for me to do. Yet I like that it keeps watch for me on people responding to my posts. Sometimes, I open up my email first before coming here, to see who has respond to what, and where, to check those out first. I find it helpful now that there are more boards to watch. I am leaving it on for now. I'll turn it off I it drives me too crazy.
- Watch Thread feature...became overwhelmed with emails, won't use it unless extremely important. I mostly post in RR anyway.

Haven't used:
- print thread
- next thread / previous thread
- Polantir Board: only read, not posted

If I think of more stuff I'll add later in this discussion.

What stories do you folks have to tell? Please feel free to rant, rave, shout for joy, let loose frustrations, laugh, scream, celebrate new board and/or lament the old board.

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


(This post was edited by Daughter of Nienna on Mar 13 2007, 11:37pm)


CAhobbit
Rohan


Mar 13 2007, 11:45pm

Post #2 of 39 (148 views)
Shortcut
Well.. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Flat Mode: Can't figure out who's responding to who



This is why I set-up my viewing like the old boards. Too many folks are still in the old threaded mode so quoting isn't happening and thus mass confusion (at least on my part). Thankfully you can still view everything threaded on the new boards but there's the added benefit of finding the post you're reading in the longer threads (since it's bolded) and new posts come with a niffty red 'NEW' tag next to them. Sly


Do not meddle in the affairs of hobbits for we can bite your kneecaps off!



CAhobbit's flickr page

CAhobbit's myspace


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 13 2007, 11:58pm

Post #3 of 39 (146 views)
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no stories to tell! [In reply to] Can't Post

That is the point of this thread... my story is not the focal point.... I just thought I'd kick off the discussion.
Smile

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 12:04am

Post #4 of 39 (142 views)
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I want to hear stories! [In reply to] Can't Post

maybe I should be clearer...

I't been a few weeks and most of us have ti figured out...I just want to hear the stories!!!!!! (not answers) The point is about community and sharing, (not problem resolution).

I want to hear adventures, humor, grumbles, laughs, joy, sad, whatever . . . you know: stories!

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


Morwen
Rohan


Mar 14 2007, 1:34am

Post #5 of 39 (155 views)
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My list-complete with story [In reply to] Can't Post

OLD BOARD
Miss:
spoiler tags
nt image or link inside
"Save" button in the reply box

Don't Miss:
Posts falling off the bottom of the board
Story: About the time FoTR was released in theaters, I got a second job working from 5:00 to 9:00 p.m. I had no sporadic internet access at my day job, and no internet access at my evening job. If I posted on Main in the morning before work the thread would be gone by the time I got home after 9:00. I could search the old post to see if I'd gotten any replies, but if you can't reply to the replies, what's the fun?

No off topic posts

Spellchecker of Morgoth

Mini-bios that didn't work

Board lockup during Fiesta Friday

Oft-disappearing stats

That silly little clock, ticking away next to the message box. Always made me feel like I was taking a timed test.


NEW BOARD
Like:
Off-Topic Board

Pollantir

Advanced Editor- I'm html impaired. I can do bold, italic and underline from memory, but I have to look up pretty much anything else, and my brain doesn't measure in pixels. I like being able to size a picture on my computer, dump it into photobucket and click on the little image icon.

Functional spell-checker

Avatars

Edit function

The "in reply to" link at the top of messages. In long threads it helps me keep up with who's talking to whom.

Replies sorted in a thread with the oldest at the top. On the old board I usually read from the bottom up.

The "NEW" indicators, and threads with unread posts in bold.

Don't Like
10 minute edit/delete window--I opened a post for editing with only a couple of minutes to spare, made my changes and tried to post only to find that the edit time limit had passed. I was stuck with my post the way it was. Maybe I need to learn to type faster!

For some reason, I prefer the threaded mode to the flat mode. It just seems more organized.

Not being able to see my footer in Preview. That means the only way to make sure I got it right is to actually post, which means if I screwed up everybody will see it. Unless, of course, I manage to make the ten minute delete window.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

I wish you could have been there
When she opened up the door
And looked me in the face
Like she never did before
I felt about as welcome
As a Wal-Mart Superstore--John Prine


Kimi
Forum Admin / Moderator

Mar 14 2007, 1:42am

Post #6 of 39 (135 views)
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If you ever [In reply to] Can't Post

want a post edited or deleted, feel free to PM an Admin.

Of course by the time we see your message, the world may have already seen your post in all its glory :-)




Promises to Keep: a novel set in 19th Century New Zealand.

The Passing of Mistress Rose

Do we find happiness so often that we should turn it off the box when it happens to sit there?

- A Room With a View


Morwen
Rohan


Mar 14 2007, 1:57am

Post #7 of 39 (138 views)
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Thank goodness for admins [In reply to] Can't Post

I will certainly do that if I ever really screw up a post. It just seems like a lot of trouble for my usual typing errors or minor mistakes. My usual strategy is either just to live with it--TORN already knows I'm not perfect, right--or reply to my own post with a post saying something like, "Oops! What I really meant to say was..."

Thanks as always, Kimi.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

I wish you could have been there
When she opened up the door
And looked me in the face
Like she never did before
I felt about as welcome
As a Wal-Mart Superstore--John Prine


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 2:13am

Post #8 of 39 (162 views)
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LOL - Spellchecker of Morgoth [In reply to] Can't Post

I am sure its been called that before that's the first time I heard it. That's good!

I new I was forgetting things: I like the 'NEW' label as well... and the bold type for new as well. The only thing is those labels and bolding disappear if I close to window to return later to read some things. . . then I have to guess what those NEW posts are when I do go back.

I didn't like that clock either!

I prefer threaded too because flat drives me crazy. I used to use collate frequently, but it doesn't work quite the same way.

Halleluiah on the Functional spell-checker!

I am 'pea-green with envy' (to quote Scarlet O'Hara) to anyone who has Advanced Editor functioning for them.

OH! Good something new to discover: The "in reply to" link. I tried that the first day, but it only seemed to take me to original post (in flat mode) I figured I wasn't using it right, or understanding it right… it was all too new…I might start trying it again now that I got my footing stable. I had put it completely out of my mind since that first day. Thanks.

Sometimes I want to use flat mode, for faster reading of posts with a lot of responses. It would certainly help if I could figure out how to tell who is responding to who.

I loved your response thanks.

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


(This post was edited by Daughter of Nienna on Mar 14 2007, 2:20am)


CAhobbit
Rohan


Mar 14 2007, 3:10am

Post #9 of 39 (129 views)
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Not really.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been waiting for new boards since the summer of 2003 so I'm just ever so happy to see them after all these years. The closing of the old boards was a little sad (like the closing of a door that will never be opened again). The old boards held many memories of happiness, laughter and some sadness. I look back in fondness but I also see the frustrations of the old boards (no edit option, getting older posts that fell off the board was difficult, that darn timer, no ability to really see where one is when viewing very long threads.). I kind of wish we could edit our posts indefinitely. The 15 minute time frame is too fast IMO. Other than that I'm just so happy for the new boards and Heart them so. Laugh

Do not meddle in the affairs of hobbits for we can bite your kneecaps off!



CAhobbit's flickr page

CAhobbit's myspace


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 3:48am

Post #10 of 39 (127 views)
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grumbles and celebrations [In reply to] Can't Post

...just what I was looking for!

The time limit bothers me too. At least posts were still deletable, if not editable. And, then your could still redo it. As long as no one responded. On the Art Board, all posts are still editable.

All in all I find much to celebrate in the new boards.

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


(This post was edited by Daughter of Nienna on Mar 14 2007, 3:50am)


Aerin
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 5:43am

Post #11 of 39 (149 views)
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Well, I've said most of it on Feedback, but [In reply to] Can't Post

here goes:

MISS
Obligatory threaded mode
Readable posts (large enough type and short enough line widths)
Newest responses at the top of a thread
Fields for inserting links and pictures (see Frustrations, below)
Name right next to subject line
No-text tags
Spoiler tags
Color of followed links easy to see (green vs. black)
Modding
Save and load functions
Indicator of days (hours, months) of posts visible on the page
Links to other boards always handy

DON'T MISS
Occasional freeze-ups
No search capability
(That's about it; I never use spellcheck, anyway, and the timer was not a problem for me)

DELIGHTS OF NEW BOARDS
OT board
NEW tags
Bolded subject lines of unread posts
Adjustable text box size

FRUSTRATIONS WITH NEW BOARDS
Default type size of messages is too small
Messages expand horizontally to fill the screen, making the lines too wide to read comfortably
New responses at the bottom of threads
Availability of flat mode (Should be prohibited! It's evil!)
People quoting entire messages because they are using flat mode (extremely annoying!!!!)
Post with "Re:" subject lines
Not enough color contrast for followed links
No-text messages not labeled as such
Can't use Advanced Editor
Can't upload pictures (it's more difficult for me to post pics than on old boards)
No fields for pasting links or picture URLs
Name in separate column from subject line
Smilies! (Hate them!)
Too narrow a space for subject lines; too much wrapping
Symbols showing whether anyone has responded (I always view threads expanded, so the symbols are just annoying)

I'm probably forgetting some things, but this will do for now.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Mar 14 2007, 6:12am

Post #12 of 39 (128 views)
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FYI... [In reply to] Can't Post

As Kimi said below, Admins can edit or delete posts at any time. Just PM one of the Admins and let us know what you need. You can check Who's Online to see which of us are around to help.

Silverlode

Between the acting of a dreadful thing
And the first motion, all the interim is
Like a phantasma, or a hideous dream:
The genius and the plan thus inspired
Depart me and I, entering a room,
Find myself on the threshold, stand still
And wonder what I came to do there.


(This post was edited by Silverlode on Mar 14 2007, 6:13am)


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 6:16am

Post #13 of 39 (111 views)
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thanks, I'll remember that [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


SandWitch King
Rohan


Mar 14 2007, 6:26am

Post #14 of 39 (138 views)
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I miss the old boards because - [In reply to] Can't Post

I miss the old boards because there, everybody didn't talk about the boards, just used them! EvilEvilEvil


(Commence downward modding and Dideye will order me to eat another SandWitch.)

. . . One should, if possible, express a negative concept in a positive form: "not meaningful" rather than "meaningless." I agree and will, therefore, now refer to contemporary movie executives as running around "like chickens without their heads cut on." - David Mamet


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 6:54am

Post #15 of 39 (123 views)
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They're evil! :-)) [In reply to] Can't Post

I love that . . . .

And, I love, love, love Adjustable text box size.

I am totally with you on these issues:
- Can't use Advanced Editor — my biggest grumble of all.
- Not enough color contrast for followed links
- No fields for pasting links or picture URLs
- Too narrow a space for subject lines; too much wrapping
- Short enough line widths

Readable posts (large enough type): I agree with the size issue, though I do enjoy the consistency factor. The sans serif type and all black color. My eyes just aren't what they used to be and I can't read small type well either. I would have more trouble on the old board because of either the type that people used was too small or a really unreadable color choice. For small type; on a Mac (like you) I hit "command +" (plus) to increase the type and "command –" (minus) to decrease it, works quickly and easily.

I notice that your grumble list is quite long, I appreciate that you shared all that. It gave me a smile. Being Mac users, we have some of he same issues. But I am sad that you don't find much to like.

It struck me that first day that you transitioned very well...better than I was doing. Your help was so perfect. At last someone could tell me that my problem was un-compatibility with the system and it wasn't me. What relief that was to have the problem named and I could move on.

Was it as easy as I thought for you?

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 7:01am

Post #16 of 39 (125 views)
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I guess I see this as an opportuity [In reply to] Can't Post

to say good bye to the old and hello to the new and process the transition to move on. It is not about the boards but the comradery of shared experience that I am looking for. The only way to truly move on is to talk about it, not pretend its not happening.

I always saw you as a 'partyer' . .. why not join the party. I am still looking for stories, especially humorous stories.

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


(This post was edited by Daughter of Nienna on Mar 14 2007, 7:03am)


Aerin
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 7:35am

Post #17 of 39 (113 views)
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Oh, it was easy. [In reply to] Can't Post

People seem to assume that anyone who doesn't like the new boards has never used this type of board before and just needs to "get used to it." But I've used other boards of this style enough to know what I don't like about them. For me, they're not difficult to figure out, just annoying. One reason I got so involved with TORn was the board style, which I found refreshing.

I probably would have found the transition more difficult if I had been scheduled to lead a discussion and needed to post a bunch of pictures with commentary. I have the utmost sympathy for all who struggled with this. I still haven't posted any pictures, because it's such a pain now. (I even found a pic for EI, but then said "the heck with it" when I realized I would have to go look up the code I needed in order to post it.)

About the type: consistency is nice, but for me, all the type is consistently too small in posts. True, it's easy to change the type size, but the type is just the right size in the text box for composing messages, and if I make it larger, subject lines wrap too much. So to read everything comfortably, I would have to change tbe type size every time I went from reading a post to viewing subject lines or from reading a post to posting a reply (plus I would have to resize my browser window each time). That's just WAY too much trouble. If I only had to change the type size (or browser window size) once for TORn and then back again after leaving TORn, it wouldn't be so bad (though it still would be annoying), but to have to change the type size and browser window size every time I change views within the site is ridiculous. So I just put up with difficult-to-read posts, and read fewer of them.


Aerin
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 7:37am

Post #18 of 39 (115 views)
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LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

There was a reason for that.


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Mar 14 2007, 2:27pm

Post #19 of 39 (109 views)
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I dunno. [In reply to] Can't Post

Draupne talked to others about the boards quite a lot. ;)


wolfranger
Bree


Mar 14 2007, 6:20pm

Post #20 of 39 (103 views)
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Just a couple things [In reply to] Can't Post

For the most part I feel that I have transitioned smoothly - that could be because I don't post very often though.

I miss the look of the old boards, I mean, I've been looking at them daily for a few years now! But that's just habit.

I miss the fact that on the old boards, posts I had read turned green and stayed that way. Posts I had not read did not turn green. The whole bolding, unbolding, new, old thing doesn't allow me to remember which posts I've read or not read in that thread in the Reading Room that's three weeks old now. I also really miss the tags (I count No Text - Link Inside as one).

I whole-heartedly agree that the new boards are way better in the replying department. You don't have that little timer that randomly gets rid of your post! And there's a little button for Bold, Italic, Underline - I'm terribly computer stupid and could never figure out how to do that on the old boards. (I think. I admit that I continue to compose long posts in Word.)

I kind of miss new posts being on top, but I think it's just habit again.

Cheers,
wolfranger

"The progress of evolution from President Washington to President Grant, was alone evidence enough to upset Darwin." Henry Adams, The Education of Henry Adams.


Advising Elf
Rohan


Mar 14 2007, 6:41pm

Post #21 of 39 (94 views)
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Just a couple of things for me, too. [In reply to] Can't Post

I miss the open look of the old boards (no boxes). Not a big thing, but I noticed it when I went back for Final Fiesta.

Also, Iiked being able to change the display font. That's just an appearance thing, too.

I also miss the easily discernable color change in posts/replies that you'd opened. I think that's the only thing about the new boards that's a real issue. It's get my vote as the first thing to change. I suspect it's not a difficult change to make.

"I haven't any right to criticise books, and I don't do it except when I hate them. I often want to criticise Jane Austen, but her books madden me so that I can't conceal my frenzy from the reader; and therefore I have to stop every time I begin. Everytime I read 'Pride and Prejudice' I want to dig her up and beat her over the skull with her own shin-bone." - Mark Twain


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 8:40pm

Post #22 of 39 (82 views)
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Part of me misses that too [In reply to] Can't Post

 
quote: I miss the fact that on the old boards, posts I had read turned green and stayed that way. Posts I had not read did not turn green.

Part of me misses that as well and part doesn't. What I miss about it is that I could easily tell what I read and what I didn't.

Speaking of habits, I wonder if I will ever stop scrolling to the bottom to reply. Maybe there should be a reply button both top and bottom. What a great idea...some post are rather long. (hint to the powers that be)

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


SandWitch King
Rohan


Mar 14 2007, 8:41pm

Post #23 of 39 (88 views)
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I knew somebody would do that! [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean that I knew somebody would bring up the truth that some of us did talk about the boards at the old boards. Our talk was often:

A) I wish we had new boards!

B) These boards hurt my soul

C) I couldn't stand it if these boards changed.

The truth kinda ruins my little jest!

. . . One should, if possible, express a negative concept in a positive form: "not meaningful" rather than "meaningless." I agree and will, therefore, now refer to contemporary movie executives as running around "like chickens without their heads cut on." - David Mamet


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 8:51pm

Post #24 of 39 (83 views)
Shortcut
discernable color change in post [In reply to] Can't Post

 

What I miss about the discernable color change in a post is that I could easily tell what I read and what I didn't.

But if I looked at someone's profile....it melded into the sea of green and disappeard visually, making it hard to see who who the poster was (the names being right next to the title). Then, that doesn't matter here because the names of posters are in a separate column. I really like that change.

Also, I never dared to look at my own posts (for mistakes) for the same reason. As long as my posts remained black, I could find them easily and look for responses easily. I would open them sometimes later to my shigrin to find horrific typos, wondering how anyone could descifer it to answer at all. Unsure

One thing is that I wish is that the bold and the "NEW" labels did not go away because i go away for a little while. I think they should only go away if I actually open the post.

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta


Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens


Mar 14 2007, 8:55pm

Post #25 of 39 (76 views)
Shortcut
This really is funny...I meant to add / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Art Gallery Revised, ORC pic of Hawaii friends, my drawings,
Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory

Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta

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