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Noria
Gondor
Mar 2 2019, 4:22pm
Post #26 of 28
(919 views)
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Setting aside the films, for most of the story the dwarves are also generally bumbling and incompetent in a pretty non-legendary way, even Thorin. Gandalf early on and then later Bilbo are really the only ones holding the quest together.
This suddenly changes when they charge out in the Battle, of course.
This. The Dwarves of the novel are comedic rather than heroic and as such are rather cowardly, ineffectual, whiny and greedy, until Erebor. They fall apart under stress and aren't even really armed. Tolkien himself described them as "not heroes but a calculating folk."
In the movies of course, from the beginning they are much more effective and heroic, as well as comedic. Balin calls them tinkers and such but they are also warriors.
Hobbits are my favourite of Tolkien's peoples because they are like, us only better. I agree that they are our window into Middle-earth but I'd only want to see them in the series if they fit.
It wouldn't be hard to have another race bring us into Middle-earth, even the prissy, androgynous Elves, if the fiery and flawed Elves of the First Age are an example.
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uncle Iorlas
Rohan
Mar 2 2019, 8:29pm
Post #27 of 28
(881 views)
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Setting aside the films, for most of the story the dwarves are also generally bumbling and incompetent in a pretty non-legendary way, even Thorin. Gandalf early on and then later Bilbo are really the only ones holding the quest together.
This suddenly changes when they charge out in the Battle, of course.
I don't remember exactly where, maybe in Inside Information, there's a brief discussion of dwarves' character. "But there it is," it approximately says; "dwarves are not heroes...the best that can be said of Thorin and Company is that they really did mean to pay him well," or something like that.
And yet there's Thorin, who really is a hero, at least a war hero. His moral compass is intermittent and he's stuck up and often petulant, but he is also shrewd, uncommonly well-spoken, cool-headed under pressure, and of course a juggernaut in combat. He's basically the best dwarf in the world. Which kind of calls that description into question a bit.
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Marmoon
Bree
Mar 5 2019, 12:09am
Post #28 of 28
(806 views)
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I don't remember exactly where, maybe in Inside Information, there's a brief discussion of dwarves' character. "But there it is," it approximately says; "dwarves are not heroes...the best that can be said of Thorin and Company is that they really did mean to pay him well," or something like that.
Your memory is correct. The following passage is from Inside Information: "The most that can be said for the dwarves is this: they intended to pay Bilbo really handsomely for his services; they had brought him to do a nasty job for them, and they did not mind the poor little fellow doing it if he would; but they would all have done their best to get him out of trouble, if he got into it... There it is: dwarves are not heroes, but calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money".
The line about dwarves not being heroes might be a general rule for this historically greedy, self-interested race, but there are exceptions, and it certainly does not imply they were non-heroes. Gimli, of course, for his participation in the Fellowship and later as one of the Three Hunters, was very heroic. In the First Age, Azaghâl led the Dwarves of Belegost to join the Union of Maedhros, notably as part of the eastern army in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears; Azaghâl won renown for a hero’s death fighting the dragon Glaurung.
The use of the present-tense “are” in the above quote may have meant there were no living legends at the time of the Quest of Erebor. The closest would probably have been Thorin and Dáin Ironfoot, both of whom made names for themselves (literally for Thorin with his Oakenshield epithet) during the Battle of Azanulbizar. But the pyrrhic and inglorious nature of their victory in that battle left the survivors in a state equivalent to defeat; no great songs emerged and no names were exalted with heroic honors.
So there is sufficient precedent for heroic dwarves. But I also think a lead dwarf is unlikely for the Amazon series. Men seem the ideal protagonists, with Dwarves and Elves serving in ancillary roles as part of the social and cultural fabric of Middle-earth.
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