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Feb 12, 8:18am

Post #1 of 3 (132 views)
Manwe/Orome/Inwe Can't Post

Are they all 3 the same character?

It would explain why Turgon does not have his wife with him in Gondolin.

Would it create any contradictions in the story?

Also, what if

vanyar => elves
elves => ainur
avari => men

Daniel L Newhouse


Wed, 1:40pm

Post #2 of 3 (81 views)
Not sure what you are getting at here mate? [In reply to] Can't Post

Manwe and Orome are certainly not the same. They are totally independent and separate. By Inwe, I presume you mean the Book of Lost Tales king of the elves, who evolved into Ingwe (BOLT is a different world to Middle-earth). Again totally separate. Maybe you might explain a bit more about why you are asking the question. It certainly would create difficulties if all were the same being, given they are al present at certain times in The Silmarillion.

In you table, you meant:

elves => avari

Right? Not Ainur (i.e: the Valar and the Maiar). That would be crazy, right?

I don't agree with the layout. The Vanyar were Eldar. The Noldor were Eldar, as were the Teleri. Collectively they were very similar but each with their own strengths and weaknesses. As Peoples, I don't think one could separate them easily. Avari are similar to the Teleri, but who never followed the summons of the Valar.

I think the big distinction within the Quendi (all beings one might describe as elves) is between those who completed the journey to Valinor, the Calaquendi, and those who did not, the Moriquendi, with the Sindar sitting in between. I guess due to sharing the presence of Elwe and Melian?

The Calaquendi include all the Vanyar, all the Noldor and the proportion of the Teleri that followed Olwe, and they are all definitely superior to the Moriquendi in most things.

I guess one might have to fall on the side of the Moriquendi as being superior to men, but not in the same way as the Calaquendi are superior to the Moriquendi.

It still wouldn't be right, but something like this would be vaguely OK, I think (its a big think):

ainur >(=) calaquendi
calaquendi >(=) moriquendi
moriquendi (>)= men

Brackets denoting that few of those on the right were the equal of those on the left, and only the weakest of those on the left.





Thu, 6:36am

Post #3 of 3 (62 views)
Lotr meets Star Wars [In reply to] Can't Post

I suppose the way that I'm trying to see the story is like Star Wars - there's always a big reveal.

"Bastilla, I am your father."

With a heart moved sooner to sorrow than to laughter.

Daniel L Newhouse


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