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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
Potential Spin-offs from Amazon's Middle-earth Series

Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 15, 4:13pm

Post #1 of 22 (2415 views)
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Potential Spin-offs from Amazon's Middle-earth Series Can't Post

The producers behind the new show have already made clear that they intend to spin off other series from the main show (assuming it is successful). Several possibilities cross my mind that would not have to use material from the legendarium beyond The Lord of the Rings.

1. Tales from Wilderland
Five years after the Battle of Five Armies, King Bard sends out a proclamation calling on adventurous individuals to come together and aid him in securing the lands of the North for the benefit of the kingdom of Dale and the common good. This call for aid spreads to lands as distant as Bree-land and the Shire to the west,Gondor to the South, and even Dorwinion and the Sea of Rhûn.

This show would take much of its inspiration from role-playing games such as The One Ring and Adventures in Middle-earth. The emphasis would be placed on a a fellowship of diverse adventures with more familiar characters such as King Bard, Beorn, King Dáin, Thranduil, Gandalf, Radagast, etc, acting as patrons and advisors to our leads.

2. The Wars in the North
'Three times Lórien had been assailed from Dol Guldur... The realm of Thranduil was invaded, and there was long battle under the trees and great ruin of fire... At the same time as the great armies besieged Minas Tirith a host of allies of Sauron that had long threatened the borders of King Band crossed the River Carnen, and Brand was driven back to Dale.'

This would be a miniseries telling the stories of the battles being fought in the North of Middle-earth in the War of the Ring. Main characters would include: King Brand, the grandson of Bard; his son Bard II; Dáin Ironfoot, King under the Mountain; his son Thorin Stonehelm; Thranduil; Galadriel and Celeborn; the surviving Dwarves of the Company of Thorin Oakenshield that remain in Erebor.

3. The Reclamation of Moria
The Dwarf Balin son of Fundin leads a doomed expedition to recolonize the Dwarf-kingdom of Moria.

Probably another miniseries, the lead characters would be Balin and his companions Óin and Ori. This seems the least likely to be seriously considered as a show as it might be a hard sell to a general audience.

Of course, other potential spin-offs could explore earlier periods of history in Middle-earth, though it might be best to stick to the Third Age. What would you like to see and how would you make it work?

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 15, 4:18pm)


MoreMorgoth
Bree

Jan 15, 8:23pm

Post #2 of 22 (2333 views)
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sounds great [In reply to] Can't Post

All three sound like something I would greatly enjoy. The entire retaking of Moria would be amazing... and the other two sound terrific.


(This post was edited by MoreMorgoth on Jan 15, 8:24pm)


Lissuin
Valinor


Jan 15, 11:21pm

Post #3 of 22 (2305 views)
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I think I'll have to get a bigger tv screen, [In reply to] Can't Post

especially for Moria.


Belegdir
Lorien


Jan 16, 1:47pm

Post #4 of 22 (2255 views)
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All great events to follow [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd watch all of those.


Noria
Gondor

Jan 16, 2:31pm

Post #5 of 22 (2248 views)
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I too would watch all of these. [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially The Wars in the North.

Theoretically, because first I'd have to learn how to stream and subscribe to Amazon's service. Wink And watch the original series.

I agree that the Third Age stories are possibly more accessible but I'd love to see the story of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin.

IMO the events of The Silmarillion could be encompassed in three "series": Beren and Luthien, The Children of Hurin and Tuor/Gondolin. (I'm aware that the Estate still owns the rights to TS and is unlikely to sell them.)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 16, 3:17pm

Post #6 of 22 (2243 views)
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Blasts from the Past [In reply to] Can't Post

Here are a couple more:

The Fall of Arthedain
The end of the North Kingdom and the establishment of the Rangers.

This would be the story of the final days of the kingdom of Arthedain as it is overwhelmed by the forces of the Witch-king of Angmar. King Arvedui is forced to flee Fornost with the palantíri of Annuminas and Amon Sûl while the sons of the king are driven across the Lune to seek the protection of Círdan in the Grey Havens. Arvedui and his men are forced north and find shelter with the Lossoth of the Bay of Forochel, but tragically drown when the rescue-ship sent by Círdan is crushed by ice, taking the Men and the Seeing-stones to the bottom of the bay. The story continues with the fall of Angmar due to the combined forces of Gondor and the Elves, and ends with Aranarth son of Arvedui taking the title of Chieftain of the Dúnedain and leading the remnants of his people into the Wild.

Among the principle characters: King Arvedui; his wife Fíriel: his sons, but especially Aranrth; the Witch-king of Angmar; Círdan; the Chief of the Lossoth; Prince Eärnur of Gondor; Elrond; and Glorfindel. Other supporting characters might include: Celebrían, Arwen, Elrond's sons Elladan and Elrohir; and Gandalf the Grey.

The Tale of Eärnur, Last King of Gondor
The rise of Prince Eärnur of Gondor as he brings a fleet to Lindon to defeat Witch-king's kingdom of Angmar with the aid of the Elves of the Grey Havens and Rivendell. And also how, as the King of Gondor, he meets his end at the hands of the Witch-king.

Principle characters would include: Eärnur; his father Eärnil; the Witch-king; Círdan; Elrond; and Glorfindel. As with The Fall of Arthedain, there would be a number of connected supporting characters from the legendarium.

If the above stories must incorporate elements established in the Peter Jackson films then some adjustments might need to be made in regards to the Witch-king, the other Nazgûl and the timing for the fall of Angmar.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage


Belegdir
Lorien


Jan 16, 3:20pm

Post #7 of 22 (2240 views)
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I think you need to approach Amazon with these [In reply to] Can't Post

They are all fantastic ideas.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 16, 3:45pm

Post #8 of 22 (2239 views)
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Thanks. [In reply to] Can't Post

My own personal preference is for the Tales from Wilderland show, with smaller, more personal stories than we would have with the others. The stakes would be lower, but the drama could be emphasized. We would see more ordinary people of Middle-earth than we would encounter great lords, ladies and wizards.

I am also avoiding pitches based in The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, etc.; concentrating on what can be derived from The Lord of the Rings and its appendices. That does open up the Second Age to some potential spin-off series; and I have seen some pretty good pitches from fellow posters, in particular from uncle Iorlas. I just think the Third Age material is more accessible. But pitch your pitches! What would you suggest?

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 16, 3:52pm)


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Lorien

Jan 16, 4:44pm

Post #9 of 22 (2225 views)
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I would watch any and all of these [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially the wars in the North. Galadriel, Thranduil, Celeborn - those characters really interest me, and I've always loved Dol Guldur.

I love The Hobbit. Always will.


Asger
Bree


Jan 16, 9:07pm

Post #10 of 22 (2199 views)
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The fall of Arthedain [In reply to] Can't Post

A company of Hobbit-archers went to war and never returned. A story-arc could follow them.

"Don't take life seriously, it ain't nohow permanent!" Pogo
www.willy-centret.dk


Noria
Gondor

Jan 16, 9:27pm

Post #11 of 22 (2196 views)
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On second thought, [In reply to] Can't Post

you're right that it would be better to stick to the possible - that is, what can be gleaned from LotR and its appendices.

All of your suggestions, including the last two would be great! I would be happy with smaller stories.

I'd be interested in seeing something about Ghan-buri-Ghan and the Woses, but maybe that is straying too far out of bounds.

On the epic side, they could make a multi-season series about the rise and fall of Numenor. finishing with Elendil, Isildur, Anarion and their people arriving on the shores of Middle-earth. Then they could start with the events leading up to the Last Alliance.


Wilros
The Shire


Jan 16, 11:59pm

Post #12 of 22 (2180 views)
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Your ideas are good [In reply to] Can't Post

I especially like the Fall of Arthedain and Reclaiming Moria possiblities.

Another one I am suprised you haven't suggested is The War of the Last Alliance. That is an extended conflict with obvious ties to the movies that I think could work well as a series.

And before you say it was covered in 2 mins of screentime in the movie, Star Wars made a 2.5 hr movie out of 1 line of prologue! Cool


Meneldor
Valinor


Jan 17, 1:37am

Post #13 of 22 (2172 views)
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One character I've always been curious about is the hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

in the appendices named Isengar Took, 1262-1360 (said to have 'gone to sea' in his youth)

I'd pitch it as "The Hobbit meets Treasure Island." Tell me that wouldn't be a fun yarn!


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107


squire
Half-elven


Jan 17, 1:58am

Post #14 of 22 (2168 views)
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Why assume that 'spin offs' from the developing story would be adapted from the Legendarium?- [In reply to] Can't Post

Isn't the nature of a spin-off that it simply derives from the parent property?

For instance, suppose it turns out that Aragorn in this new series has a half-season fling with an inappropriate but butt-kicking shieldmaiden - the relationship that, we now see, helps to explain his ability to fend off Eowyn's advances in the original, but later in the timeline, Lord of the Rings. If this character is done well from the audience's point of view, there could be a spin off giving her a set of adventures of her own, derived in spirit, setting, and internal story line from the more imaginative creations of the original series' writers.

In other words, there would no longer need to be even a pretense that the new show and its spin-offs were from Tolkien's literary creation - except that, of course, it's still "Middle-earth" and people occasionally drop the names of various Tolkien-y places and people from the original story. This would free up the production company to create an entire 'Tolkien universe' that they would own, without concern for the constricting plots and relationships that Tolkien sketched into his Third Age appendices. I expect that fans of this new Amazon series, even more than fans of the New Line films, would have virtually zero concern about any kind of faithfulness to the actual books, which increasingly fewer of them will have read.

When I read in your post that "the producers behind the new show have already made clear they intend to spin off other series from the main show", something like the above scenario is what I immediately thought of. It never occurred to me they would mine the actual books for additional stories. What's in that approach for them, after all?



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2ndBreffest
Rivendell


Jan 17, 8:50am

Post #15 of 22 (2114 views)
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yes [In reply to] Can't Post

This seems to me a very likely possibility, and it would probably be the one that makes the most sense if they do decide to continue on with PJ. As soon as I first heard that they were going to be doing this series, I never really believed that they would be overly concerned with faithfulness to the Legendarium, and now that it seems PJ is involved, I wouldn't be too surprised if they never bother with it at all. For the majority of the movie fans, as long as it looks, and sounds like the Middle-earth they are familiar with, they will be happy to have more. I on the other hand will have no interest in such a thing.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 17, 2:26pm

Post #16 of 22 (2045 views)
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The Last Alliance [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
IAnother one I am suprised you haven't suggested is The War of the Last Alliance. That is an extended conflict with obvious ties to the movies that I think could work well as a series.

And before you say it was covered in 2 mins of screentime in the movie, Star Wars made a 2.5 hr movie out of 1 line of prologue! Cool


Agreed. The Last Alliance of Elves and Men could indeed be fodder for an entire series, though Jackson moved the final battle in the conflict from the gates of Barad-dûr to the slops of Mount Doom. Likewise, a Second Age series could follow the War of Elves and Sauron, with Sauron's surrender to Ar-Pharazôn leading to the destruction of Númenor. That would truly be epic stuff. Cool

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 17, 2:30pm

Post #17 of 22 (2046 views)
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Nice. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
in the appendices named Isengar Took, 1262-1360 (said to have 'gone to sea' in his youth)

I'd pitch it as "The Hobbit meets Treasure Island." Tell me that wouldn't be a fun yarn!


I don't see that as an entire show so much as a short story. It could become a segment of an anthology series!

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 17, 2:46pm

Post #18 of 22 (2040 views)
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More direct spin-offs. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Isn't the nature of a spin-off that it simply derives from the parent property?

For instance, suppose it turns out that Aragorn in this new series has a half-season fling with an inappropriate but butt-kicking shieldmaiden - the relationship that, we now see, helps to explain his ability to fend off Eowyn's advances in the original, but later in the timeline, Lord of the Rings. If this character is done well from the audience's point of view, there could be a spin off giving her a set of adventures of her own, derived in spirit, setting, and internal story line from the more imaginative creations of the original series' writers.,,

...When I read in your post that "the producers behind the new show have already made clear they intend to spin off other series from the main show", something like the above scenario is what I immediately thought of. It never occurred to me they would mine the actual books for additional stories. What's in that approach for them, after all?


First, forgive me for cutting some of your post for brevity. Spin-offs set in the past seem likely as that is also what we are seeing with HBO and Game of Thrones; but I'll acknowledge that that's not the only way Amazon could go. The main series might only tell a small part of Aragorn's backstory, ending perhaps with his victory for Gondor at the Havens of Umbar and his reunion with Arwen in Lórien. In such a case, a follow-up series could continue Aragorn's travels with the Hunt for Gollum and/or his journeys to the distant East and far South -- and we would still be within the scope of Tolkien's legendarium. Smile

I would fervently hope that neither the show nor a spin-off series would devolve into Aragorn: The Legendary Journeys, giving our boy a goofy sidekick and time-traveling him to the Second Age or such nonsense (though I'm sure someone would have a ball with that!).

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 17, 2:48pm)


InTheChair
Lorien

Jan 26, 5:28pm

Post #19 of 22 (1076 views)
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Seems a little premature to start speculating about that already [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The producers behind the new show have already made clear that they intend to spin off other series from the main show (assuming it is successful).


Are they so certain this show is going to be a success? I mean it has every advantage, but even in the best of conditions shows have been know to bomb.

I don't know if today they need to start planning spin-offs already or they will never materialize in time if the show is a success. Is that the kind of leak that has been spun up for marketing purposes?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 27, 2:19pm

Post #20 of 22 (947 views)
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The producers are projecting confidence. [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not stating that such confidence has been earned, but the producers at Amazon have been the first to bring up the topic of spin-offs. And it's fun to speculate even if nothing ultimately comes of it. On the other hand, there are still far too many questions regarding the main series that haven't been answered yet.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage


kzer_za
Rivendell

Jan 27, 10:24pm

Post #21 of 22 (879 views)
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Far as we can tell, the Tolkien Estate has some level of direct involvement [In reply to] Can't Post

We don't know exactly how it works, but there will likely be a leash on getting too outrageous.


(This post was edited by kzer_za on Jan 27, 10:26pm)


InTheChair
Lorien

Jan 29, 9:29pm

Post #22 of 22 (716 views)
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That pre-supposes they intend to stick with characters and events that the Tolkien Estate has claims on. [In reply to] Can't Post

If Amazon has bought the right to use names, places, races and more that exist in Lord of the Rings, then I don't see what would prevent them from spinning off a 4th age Middle-Earth series with completely new characters that has nothing to do with the books.

If this is their intention you can start looking for some of these characters in the Young Aragorn season, since they would use that to make them popular.

Even so, I think it's too early for us to speculate about spin-offs. Remains to be seen if it's too early for them.


(This post was edited by InTheChair on Jan 29, 9:32pm)

 
 

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