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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
PJ confirms involvement with the scripts and shared universe with movies
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irasel
The Shire


Dec 27 2018, 7:04pm

Post #1 of 143 (3262 views)
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PJ confirms involvement with the scripts and shared universe with movies Can't Post

That's from a Peter Jackson interview for a Spanish newspaper promoting Mortal Engines (translation from Spanish is mine):


Quote
Q - Have you been involved in the script of "The Lord of the Rings" series?

A - They called me, but I have no experience in TV medium. I offered my help to develop the scripts, in case they needed it at some point, but I rejected the responsibility of controlling something I had never done before. I have helped them with the script, but a series of those characteristics needs an experienced person. I'm excited about the series and, of course, I have not closed the door to Amazon. I'm grateful that they want to do the series and that they develop it in the same world as the movies.


Here is the link to the whole interview (in Spanish): https://www.abc.es/...ak75NIGO5cohcvSzsI_k


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Dec 27 2018, 9:57pm

Post #2 of 143 (3001 views)
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Good lord... [In reply to] Can't Post

Unfortunately anything PJ touches at this point in time turns to mud... Keep him away for the love of God! I called Mortal Engines months ago - He just can't let go of his ridiculous love of cgi and over the top action scenes and they are killing any film he is associated with. Mad


irasel
The Shire


Dec 27 2018, 11:02pm

Post #3 of 143 (2974 views)
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I don't think PJ ends up having a big influence [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe more of an external assessor? Regarding the shared universe with the movies, I don't know what to expect...


Chen G.
Lorien

Dec 27 2018, 11:13pm

Post #4 of 143 (2970 views)
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Sure [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Unfortunately anything PJ touches at this point in time turns to mud.


Yeah, who would want the aid of a a writer/director/producer with three Oscars to his name...


MoreMorgoth
Bree

Dec 27 2018, 11:20pm

Post #5 of 143 (2967 views)
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and [In reply to] Can't Post

17 Oscars from the first three films and 6 billion in revenue... yeah - that's a lot of mud. Wink


2ndBreffest
Rivendell


Dec 28 2018, 12:11am

Post #6 of 143 (2966 views)
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I'm not surprised... [In reply to] Can't Post

that they would mainly target fans of PJ's movies with this. Personally I would like to see something more in the spirit of Tolkien's writing rather than more of the middle school fan-fic that PJ has been delivering. His Hobbit was trash, and they wrote the script for Mortal Engines which was equally trash, and he has admitted he's not confident in his ability to write a tv series...looks like this thing is headed in the right direction.


Chen G.
Lorien

Dec 28 2018, 9:21am

Post #7 of 143 (2913 views)
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Sigh... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
they wrote the script for Mortal Engines which was equally trash, and he has admitted he's not confident in his ability to write a tv series...looks like this thing is headed in the right direction.


First, as I've said before, creative fields are everything but consistent in their outputs. Sir Ridley Scott hasn't made a particularly good movie in a long time, neither has Steven Spielberg - that makes neither of them bad filmmakers. In the 60s, Sir David Lean churned out Bridge of the River Qwai and Lawrence of Arabia, only to follow it up with Doctor Zhivago and Ryan's Daughter. Even Alfred Hitchcock had misses, and I'm not too crazy about every entry in Kubrick's filmography, either.

Second, a screenplay is often written with a certain director in mind, and being that Jackson and Co. wrote for Christian rather than Jackson himself may account for some of the reported issues with the screenplay. I'm sure Christian's insistence to keep the film a lean two-hours from the outset may have contributed to this, as well.

I should also add that even when the director doesn't contribute to the screenplay, he does through the editing: Editing is essentially the final rewrite of a script; and so the way Christian presented the material found in the script may also contribute to the poor reception.

Writing for TV is a completely different thing. Have you read a Peter Jackson screenplay? Because I have. He devises shots and transitions, in a way that you can't do in TV. Its not that he lacks the confidence to write for television - it just isn't his medium. You'd sooner get him to write a play.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Dec 28 2018, 9:25am)


mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Dec 28 2018, 9:27am

Post #8 of 143 (2910 views)
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Oh, really?... [In reply to] Can't Post

As you say 'at this point in time', I'll stick to that, and only remind you that he was the one chosen two years ago by the British to make the Special Documentary for the 11.11 2018 International Celebration of the WWI Armistice Centenary 'THEY WILL NOT GROW OLD', and it has received heaps, not of mud, but of praise, from all quarters, as an outstanding achievement, both technically and for the very moving effect it has had on all the audiences that watched it - so much so that he original screening period has had to be extended for more people to be able to view it. I would say PJ, far from turning anything to mud, has been rather like the legendary King Midas, as he has turned the actual mud from the trenches into gold!

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


Chen G.
Lorien

Dec 28 2018, 9:55am

Post #9 of 143 (2901 views)
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Fantastic example [In reply to] Can't Post

I've watched They Shall not Grow Old twice now (because I believe one can only truly make one's opinion on a film after seeing it twice). Indeed, its so much more than a technical achievement: rather, its technical achievement is a direct result of its narrative goal: to portray the warriors and their humanity, rather than the war itself. To do so, you need to rid the film of the buffer formed by the slow frame-rate, scractches and jerkiness of 100-year-old film; and you have to present the film in the veterans' own words.

Its doubly impressive because not too many directors from the field of narrative, tentpole blockbusters, can make an effective transition to making documentaries, let alone good ones. Its a completely different mode of filmmaking.

That he's not going to be elligible for Best Documentary is a real shame. He would've won it in a heartbeat.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Dec 28 2018, 10:07am)


mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Dec 28 2018, 10:07am

Post #10 of 143 (2900 views)
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Trash? [In reply to] Can't Post

I know it's only your own personal point of view, but please don't write such extremely and entirely negative statements about films you know many other Tolkien fans of long and deep acquaintance with his books do appreciate a lot, if you don't.
Even just as they are, those three 'Hobbit' films have been actually a resounding success, and this, in spite of all the often unfair criticism slung mercilessly at them.
And considering the terrible conditions PJ finally and unexpectedly found himself in for making those films, with an ulcer first of all, and not enough time at all for proper preliminary work, and under constant pressure from the Studio, the mostly improvised script of 'The Hobbit' - which is still far from being trash in my and many other people's eyes - shouldn't be brandished as a proof that PJ, Fran and Philippa don't know how to write good scripts. In this interview, PJ only said 'I have no experience in TV medium'. That's all.


'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


Alcarcalime
Tol Eressea


Dec 28 2018, 10:45am

Post #11 of 143 (2877 views)
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Well said! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 




mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Dec 28 2018, 11:32am

Post #12 of 143 (2885 views)
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I for one am delighted!... [In reply to] Can't Post

In spite of the many occasions when I didn't like a certain decision they had made for adapting either 'The Hobbit' or 'The Lord of the Rings' to the big screen, the overall choices PJ & Co made (including the cast and direction), the visual representation and very atmosphere that were produced as a result of these main choices have been for me, and still remain, an incredibly fulfilling cinematic manifestation of Tolkien's Middle-earth, where I simply love to enter again and again as often as I can.From the very moment when, in the silent obscurity of that theater in December 2001, I heard that out-of-time, deep, entrancing voice - my beloved Galadriel's - rise from the long-forgotten past to pull all of us into that Middle-earth made so powerfully and beautifully and spiritually alive, these films ('The Hobbit' ones included), and particularly their Extended Versions, have become for me an endless source of inner satisfaction, completing wonderfully my own life of Conscious Spiritual Evolution in this Primary World too.So the perspective of getting, to whatever extent and in whatever form, more of it, cannot be but a deep joy for me.

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)

(This post was edited by mae govannen on Dec 28 2018, 11:34am)


mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Dec 28 2018, 11:44am

Post #13 of 143 (2870 views)
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Agree on all your points.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Dec 28 2018, 11:56am

Post #14 of 143 (2871 views)
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Gleefully with you on this.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


2ndBreffest
Rivendell


Dec 28 2018, 1:03pm

Post #15 of 143 (2860 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

to me, PJ's Hobbit is trash. Of course there are those who disagree, but as an admirer of Tolkien's story, I simply have no use for an adaptation that takes such enormous liberties with the narrative in ways that ultimately renders it almost completely unrecognizable. PJ and co. are skilled film makers, no doubt, but based on how they saw fit to adapt The Hobbit, I feel they have no understanding as to what separates Tolkien from any of the other run of the mill fantasy fluff you see these days. If Amazon wants cheese, they'll go with PJ, if they want Tolkien, they'll need to look elsewhere.


uncle Iorlas
Rivendell


Dec 29 2018, 2:18am

Post #16 of 143 (2770 views)
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You can't have that wish, little bear [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I know it's only your own personal point of view, but please don't write such extremely and entirely negative statements about films you know many other Tolkien fans of long and deep acquaintance with his books do appreciate a lot, if you don't.


It's not a reasonable request to make. Anyway, if the mere knowledge that people exist who can't stand these movies is so painful to you that you want to be protected from it, imagine how it might feel to a certain author to learn how many people judge these movies to be a fair representation of his work. Or indeed an improvement on it.

If only people were half as protective of the author as they are of this preposterous director.


Chen G.
Lorien

Dec 29 2018, 10:06am

Post #17 of 143 (2744 views)
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Look [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If only people were half as protective of the author as they are of this preposterous director.


Look, the fact of the matter is that you cannot make Tolkien's Middle Earth. The only way you could, were if Tolkien was the writer, producer and director of the films, and he isn't.

So you can either stay on the "keep it as the author intended" bandwagon, or you can accept that any filmmaker approaching the material is obviously going to nod to Tolkien, but also make their own work out of his source material.

Now, you're more than welcome to dislike the work, as it exists. But I'd advise against using such harsh words as "preposterous" so very lightly.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Dec 29 2018, 10:15am)


MoreMorgoth
Bree

Dec 29 2018, 11:55am

Post #18 of 143 (2716 views)
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agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Throughout these discussions about Jackson and his work, I find your observations very wise and insightful. Thank you for presenting them.

Fundamentally, I have always felt that some folks simply cannot accept that a book and a film are two different things and they are different and distinct from each other.


2ndBreffest
Rivendell


Dec 29 2018, 12:11pm

Post #19 of 143 (2709 views)
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so... [In reply to] Can't Post

if the point of an adaptation is not to create on screen something that fans of the book will appreciate, then why bother doing an adaptation at all?


Chen G.
Lorien

Dec 29 2018, 1:23pm

Post #20 of 143 (2695 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
the point of an adaptation is not to create on screen something that fans of the book will appreciate.


It isn't.

The point is to maintain the core themes and rudimentary plot of the source material.


2ndBreffest
Rivendell


Dec 29 2018, 1:37pm

Post #21 of 143 (2688 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

...if the point isn't to please fans of the book, PJ did a stupendous job then.


Chen G.
Lorien

Dec 29 2018, 1:58pm

Post #22 of 143 (2682 views)
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You'd hate what I would have done, then [In reply to] Can't Post

If I were to, say, get my hands on The Children of Hurin, I'd shoot it in two parts, with the first ending at the arrival to Nargothrond.

More importantly still, I'd put Turin's return to Dor Lomin before the sack of Amon Rudh as an action climax, and have the outlaws take part in it.

Filmmaking is to no small degree an exercise in boldness. And yes, making changing to a beloved book counts in my book as bold.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Dec 29 2018, 2:09pm)


mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Dec 29 2018, 2:28pm

Post #23 of 143 (2666 views)
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But many fans of the book [In reply to] Can't Post

did appreciate those films, as a matter of fact!... Smile
Or perhaps in your eyes anyone who liked those films simply couldn't have been a fan of Tolkien?!
Well, I have discovered 'The Lord of the Rings' in 1975, and have been reading it again and again since then, with the addition of the Silmarillion, the Hobbit, the Unfinished Tales, the books by Christopher Tolkien (HOME), the biography by Carpenter, Tolkien's own Letters, several of his smaller books not part of Middle-earth, and more I will stop listing out. I have been giving talks and even workshops about him and his so special writings, and I still do. I myself write articles about all things Tolkien on my Research Blog, besides managing to appear also here as often as I can since years. Is that enough to count as a 'fan of Tolkien' in your eyes?...And there are many others like me here on TORN, who are most definitely fans of Tolkien, and still appreciate those movies at least to some extent, if not more, or, for some, as much as I do.
The problem is that even very real fans of Tolkien may - and often do - disagree among themselves about any number of such things, even in their shared knowledge and appreciation of Tolkien.We are all different, and nobody could satisfy all of us together with any adaptation - except, as Chen G; rightly said, if it were J.R.R.T. himself doing it.This is why the use of such extreme words as 'trash', etc, seems to me out of place - just as I would avoid also calling those films 'perfect'. That too would be simply too absolute, when all our various differing perceptions cannot be but relative. That's all I meant to say.

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Dec 29 2018, 2:42pm

Post #24 of 143 (2658 views)
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Correct.. and yet [In reply to] Can't Post

in the films we are talking about, the whole team of PJ and Co were also trying their best "to create on screen something that fans of the book will appreciate"... for they too saw themselves as fans of the book to start with!... But they knew in advance that it would be impossible to satisfy everybody...


'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Dec 29 2018, 2:58pm

Post #25 of 143 (2657 views)
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It is not what I meant. [In reply to] Can't Post

It is not a question of finding it painful and wanting to be protected from it, as you wrongly assumed.But with such absolute judgements as this one-worded one, 'trash', there is simply no place for any discussion, let alone a meaningful one, that's what I was simply trying to point out.Please see my other posts in this thread, in which I hopefully may have explained my feeling better.

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)

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