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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Dec 16 2018, 3:29pm
Post #1 of 41
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Let's talk about Peter Jackson's "Mortal Engines"
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For those who have seen the film; please put Spoiler warnings in your subject lines, if you're discussing, you know, spoilers - I haven't seen it yet, and want to be surprised. I've read the book, so I know what could happen, but I don't know what will happen. I think I'll go to see it tomorrow or Tuesday, though, so I shouldn't have long to wait.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
(This post was edited by Thor 'n' Oakenshield on Dec 16 2018, 3:31pm)
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Dec 16 2018, 3:46pm
Post #2 of 41
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it has 27% on rottentomatoes, and the majority of reviewers say it's a horrible mess of a movie with a weak script, boring characters, lame dialogue and lots of noise and cgi...much like his Hobbit.
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Dec 16 2018, 4:01pm
Post #3 of 41
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As I've said multiple times on multiple other forums: my opinion is the only one that's gonna matter when I leave the theater. If other people don't like it, then they don't. But I'm not going to be turned away from what is potentially a good film by rottentomatoes of all things. Most people seem to like Star Wars - not me. Most people seem to dislike Fantastic Beasts - not me. When it comes to film, I go with my gut. I can't imagine ever purposely listening to the critics and not going to a film because of a bad RT score; I even watched Wrinkle in Time (which, granted, was an awful film IMO)
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Dec 16 2018, 4:13pm
Post #4 of 41
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generally before I decide to spend my time and money on a movie, I like to have somewhat of an idea of what to expect. Rottentomatoes, is a handy way to weigh out the good and the bad. If Im interested in seeing something I'll look at a few good reviews and then a few bad and then make up my mind from there. Going from the trailer alone, it looks like more of Hobbit-era PJ, and based on the majority of reviews, I think I can safely conclude that this is so.
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Dec 16 2018, 5:45pm
Post #5 of 41
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Since I'm trying to get into the film industry, I like to choose a handful of movies each month that look like they'll be relevant in some way, and see them. I would never probably want to see Bumblebee of my own free will, but I think I'll have to see it regardless. And then there's always exceptions - Deadpool, for instance, will never sell me any tickets. But I've been hyped up for Mortal Engines for a while now (loved the book), and can't wait. I'm here mainly for Jihae's Anna Fang, you know 
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Dec 16 2018, 6:57pm
Post #7 of 41
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...and then there was four.
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Annael
Immortal
Dec 16 2018, 8:27pm
Post #8 of 41
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Giving this one a miss.
Not that fond of post-apocalyptic movies anyway.
I am a dreamer of words, of written words. I think I am reading; a word stops me. I leave the page. The syllables of the words begin to move around … The words take on other meanings as if they had the right to be young.
-- Gaston Bachelard
* * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Dec 16 2018, 10:46pm
Post #9 of 41
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Is it reviews that you go by, or just your gut?
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I'm curious to know.
Not even sure if it's relevant, but I notice that Mortal Engines has a 61% audience approval rating on RT, or it did last time I checked. I always check audience approval ratings; being a general audience member myself, I feel like our voices are always seen as less relevant than those of critics. Maybe I'm just weird. Maybe I'm too easy to please. Anyway, I'm still looking forward to seeing it, even after all the poor reviews.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Dec 17 2018, 12:36am
Post #10 of 41
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When it was first discussed as a project I was doubtful as the whole premise was just too odd
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for me to really buy into. It is officially being called the years biggest bomb....https://www.thewrap.com/...omb-2018-box-office/
I might watch it as cheap rental or wait for it to show up under Free Movies.
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Dec 17 2018, 1:08am
Post #11 of 41
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The year's biggest bomb - okay, now I have to go see it just to see if it's that bad. 
But I like steampunk, so I honestly think I'm gonna like it!
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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Eledhwen
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 17 2018, 3:29pm
Post #12 of 41
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It's cheesy, fun, not perfect but watchable
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I've seen much worse movies. I'm wondering if it's getting negative reviews because people's expectations are raised for a 'Peter Jackson film'. Really it's a Christian Rivers film, and for a directorial debut it's solid. The acting is good, the special effects are great. The story gets quite cheesy and a bit derivative towards the end, but I came out wanting to know more about the Mortal Engines world and the concepts are great.
Note that I saw this with three other TORNadoes (current and former). Of the four of us, Draupne was the least impressed because the science didn't make sense. I have a pretty good ability to suspend disbelief when it comes to fantasy so that didn't bother me in the slightest, but she's got more of a sciencey background! The rest of us rather enjoyed it.
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Dec 17 2018, 4:30pm
Post #13 of 41
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I wonder if they'll adapt any of the other books in the series?
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I'd love them to, but I guess it depends on whether this movie ends in the sort of cliff-hanger fashion that the book does. I so desperately want to know! Oh gods, okay, tomorrow - I've got acting classes tonight, at exactly the time that they're showing it at my local theater, so I have to go tomorrow.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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Annael
Immortal
Dec 17 2018, 4:30pm
Post #14 of 41
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I have not liked Peter Jackson's descent into overblown movies where every moment has to be milked for the utmost drama, instead of letting the story unfold naturally, and from what I'm reading Christian has been educated to do just the same. (I have the same objection to George Lucas's and Steven Spielberg's later works - I don't know if it's ego or what but they all seriously need to hire better writers and stop editing their own movies.)
Also, there are reviewers upon whom I know I can rely in terms of what I personally will like and not like, such as Mary Ann Johanson of "flickfilosopher," who had this to say about this movie:
Like the book it’s based on, the worldbuilding is intriguing, but the characters and story are strictly cliché. A lazy, confused, and derivative disaster, with plot points and visual and thematic motifs shamelessly stolen from far better movies.
Then there are those whose reviews I can rely on in the sense of "If they liked it, I probably won't," also based on prior experience. Which is useful, thank you very much. I fear that "audience ratings" don't weigh much with me; unlike you, I guess I identify more with the critics. (I do write a film blog . . .)
Also, I am so beyond bored with post-apocalyptic stories. I didn't even see "The Road" which is excellent by all accounts.
So why would I waste my money and my (very limited) time? There are so many other movies to see right now. "Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse" and "Widows" - both getting superlative reviews - are at the top of my list at the moment, but I'll be hard-pressed to find time to see them before the end of the year.
But you know, opinions are like clothing; we all have our different tastes, and if we all dressed alike how boring life would me. My fashion choices are not an indictment of yours.
I am a dreamer of words, of written words. I think I am reading; a word stops me. I leave the page. The syllables of the words begin to move around … The words take on other meanings as if they had the right to be young.
-- Gaston Bachelard
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NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
(This post was edited by Annael on Dec 17 2018, 4:33pm)
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Eledhwen
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 17 2018, 4:51pm
Post #15 of 41
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So I don't know how close the adaptation was! Decide for yourself ...
I suspect any future movies will depend on how this does at the box office.
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Dec 17 2018, 4:58pm
Post #16 of 41
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Well, we're all critics really
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I guess I just don't understand why, just because someone has a YouTube channel or writes for a magazine or for a blog (no offense to you, I'm sure your blog is great!), but why are they - what makes them - I guess what I'm trying to say is, sure, they've got experience, but so does, say, a movie-fan who watches a lot of movies on a regular basis. There's no school that critics go to to learn...criticism - or at least, not that I know of. These days, anyone can set up a YouTube channel and "become" a movie critic. Look at Grace Randolph - who, incidentally, is one of my favorite critics. But she's a comic-book writer turned "critic" - but what makes someone a real critic? This might be a question that deserves its own separate thread, but I'd be interested to hear the answer.
I'm also very interested to see statistics about the percentage of women and minorities in the movie critic business - since Brie Larson said that the movie-critic scene is dominated by white men, I'd be interested to see if anybody has any concrete numbers to back that up. I tried going to rottentomatoes last night and counting the number of women who had reviewed Mortal Engines, as compared to the number of men - my phone ran out of battery, though.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
Dec 17 2018, 9:19pm
Post #17 of 41
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I got into a spat with a couple of dudes on YouTube who were trashing the Queen movie (them's fightin' words! ), and both were insisting that critics are trained and study films, blah blah blah. Don't care, still don't think their opinion is any better than mine. The thing is, whether it's music, film or literature, good "art" is pretty subjective & depends heavily on who's looking at said art. It's not like math or physics where there really is only one correct answer. Having said that, I do look at reviews sometimes if I'm undecided about a film, but not often enough to have a go-to critic. I'm probably not going to see "Mortal Engines" because I haven't read the books & know nothing about them. My daughter thinks she would probably rather read the books. My next movie will probably be "Aquaman," but I'm kind of on the fence about that one. I like Jason Momoa, but he can play only one character; and guys riding sharks like they're on horseback looks pretty dumb. But so far the reviews are "Stupid fun, go see it!", so yeah, I'll probably give that one a chance.
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Dec 17 2018, 9:29pm
Post #18 of 41
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I generally listen to Grace Randolph's channel solely because she knows a little bit about how the film industry works, but I don't ever rely too much on her opinions about what films are worth seeing. I like hearing her opinions - but I can't really imagine ever looking at reviews to decide whether to go to a film. I always forget to check Rottentomatoes or Metacritic usually until after I've seen the film because I don't like spoilers, and I don't even bother with the reviews from individual magazines or newspapers.
I hope you gave those dudes on YouTube a piece of your mind!
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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Annael
Immortal
Dec 17 2018, 10:16pm
Post #19 of 41
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Well, apart from being a huge movie fan, I have a lot of training in how story works, structurally, as a professional writer and editor and published author. I get paid to critique novels on story arc, character development, and plot logic. I also have training in looking at stories, including movies, from an archetypal or mythic viewpoint (hence, my blog on "Archetypes and Myths in Film"), which was part of my doctoral program. I consider myself more in the camp of Christopher Vogler, Dara Marks (who graduated from my program), and Kim Hudson - people who analyze scripts to see how they work archetypally - rather than film critics per se.
I am a dreamer of words, of written words. I think I am reading; a word stops me. I leave the page. The syllables of the words begin to move around … The words take on other meanings as if they had the right to be young.
-- Gaston Bachelard
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NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
(This post was edited by Annael on Dec 17 2018, 10:19pm)
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Cygnus
Lorien
Dec 17 2018, 11:04pm
Post #20 of 41
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I've seen much worse movies. I'm wondering if it's getting negative reviews because people's expectations are raised for a 'Peter Jackson film'. . This is a good point. Expectations are a huge factor with these type of things and expectations will always be through the roof if PJ has his name on it. My daughter and her family saw it. She said it was good but not something she would go see again.
"I found it is the small things.....everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keeps the darkness at bay.....simple acts of kindness and love." - Gandalf
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Dec 18 2018, 1:57am
Post #21 of 41
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How dare you? I don't quite understand
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I wasn't trying to sound rude - I hope I didn't come off that way? If I did, I apologize.
I like looking at things from a mythic viewpoint - though I probably do so in a different way, since I don't subscribe to most modern theories about the purpose of mythology, or about archetypes; in fact, in the stories I write, while I still have the archetypes, or at least some of them, I try to turn them over or spin them in a different way. Maybe I'm wrong, or just weird, but I've never liked Joseph Campbell's hero-journey archetype, and I find it to be constricting. But anyway, that's all beside the point. I was just asking what (in your opinion) distinguishes a real critic from a…not real one. For instance, if you simply have a YouTube channel and a bunch of followers, can you call yourself a real critic?
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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Annael
Immortal
Dec 18 2018, 2:25am
Post #22 of 41
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arguing that Campbell's Heroic Quest model is not the only pattern out there of heroism.
I was reacting to your statement that anyone can call themselves a critic (which I don't think I ever did . . . ) by just setting up shop as one, without passing any kind of test or taking some certified course of study. But people can write a bestseller without getting an English Lit degree, or a hit song without a degree in music. The arts & humanities don't work the same way as the sciences.
I am a dreamer of words, of written words. I think I am reading; a word stops me. I leave the page. The syllables of the words begin to move around … The words take on other meanings as if they had the right to be young.
-- Gaston Bachelard
* * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Dec 18 2018, 2:44am
Post #23 of 41
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Oh, of course - sorry about that
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I'd be very interested to read that book; my sister swears that you can only write a book if it follows Campbell's archetype, and tried to get me to write my own book to have all of his elements. I just couldn't - it didn't feel right, somehow, and I saw a lot of other directions for the story to take.
And…I just realized that I have totally derailed this whole thread, and there's like maybe one or two posts here that actually deal with Mortal Engines, so…
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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squire
Half-elven
Dec 18 2018, 2:57am
Post #24 of 41
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I don't think it's a question of "real" vs. "not real" critics.
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I believe there are better critics and worse critics. Heavy-hitter critics, and lightweight critics. Critics who know what they're talking about, and BS critics blowing self-satisfied smoke out of... ahem. Critics who know what they like and like what they know, and critics who do the same but can explain lucidly and engagingly why they like it and what they know about it. Critics who think all critics are the same, just like them, and critics who are well aware of their strengths and weaknesses compared to others who write about the same subject.
I'm sure anyone can call himself or herself a real critic, to answer your final question. It's a free country. What's more interesting is, who else does? Who else does who also reads several other critics to gain a sense of each writer's relative strengths and weaknesses?
As for your own work, which sounds really interesting, this critic's reaction to your note is that no one has to follow "theories" to create good art. Not everyone thinks Campbell's ideas are storytelling 101. Your "spinning theories in a different way" is, to me, the essence of all Modern Art - visual, literary, design, musical, etc. - since the mid-19th century. So you're in good company there.
As to whether the resulting stories are good, well, it's probably not because they did or didn't follow a theory. I think the fundamentals of good art are: craft, composition, coherence, beauty, depth, and self-awareness, whatever the theory, anti-theory, or counter-theory the artist may have invented or embraced.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Dec 18 2018, 2:35pm
Post #25 of 41
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That last part - I think is very true
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And thank you very much for saying my work sounds really interesting. I'm writing a 6-part fantasy novel series.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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