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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Something interesting I noticed in TTT

Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 27, 5:14pm

Post #1 of 9 (661 views)
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Something interesting I noticed in TTT Can't Post

Hello all!

So in the middle of some really, really bizarre dreams last night (gummy bears abounded- no wonder I woke up sore...), I had a realization about the way Aragorn introduced the three hunters to Eomer in TTT.

So after the whole "cut off your head dwarf" and Legolas nearly being skewered for pointing an arrow at Theoden's new heir, Aragorn finally gets around to introducing the three of them. He says, "I am Aragorn, son of Arathorn. This is Gimli son of Gloin, and Legolas of the Woodland Realm."

Interesting note- Aragorn son of Arathorn, Gimli son of Gloin.
in
And yet, when he introduces Legolas, he does not say "Legolas, son of Thranduil". He says "Legolas of the Woodland Realm."

Why does Aragorn feel the need to hide Legolas' lineage from Eomer at this time? Gimli obviously wasn't royalty (though he is distantly in line for the throne of Erebor), and Aragorn of all of them had the most to gain from keeping his own lineage secret, due to him being the ONLY heir of Isildur left and being hunted by Sauron.

Legolas is the only one among them who is currently royalty (prince of the woodland realm, and given what we know of him from TH films (though portrayed very disappointedly, IMHO) it would appear that he's the only son of Thranduil, thus making him the crown prince. And we do know that, aside from Feanor as an exception, elves generally didn't have a great number of children, making his status as possibly Thranduil's only son even more likely.

Now, Aragorn does not know who Eomer is at this point, it would seem, so caution would be more likely to be utilized. That again begs the question- why reveal his own lineage but not Legolas's?


Legolas could be Thranduil's shoe shiner for all Eomer knows at this point. And yet, Legolas is introduced in Lothlorien as Thranduil's son (though Haldir recognizes him, but we don't know if Legolas introduced himself as that prior to us hearing Haldir's statement).

So why keep Legolas's lineage a secret?

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Happy reading everyone!


(This post was edited by Cirashala on Nov 27, 5:15pm)


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Nov 27, 6:34pm

Post #2 of 9 (637 views)
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He started to attempt some clever alliteration [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Interesting note- Aragorn son of Arathorn, Gimli son of Gloin.
in
And yet, when he introduces Legolas, he does not say "Legolas, son of Thranduil". He says "Legolas of the Woodland Realm."


and “son of Thranduil” just didn’t fit, and he quickly blurted the first thing to hit him.

Seriously, it's a good logical question.

‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




Lissuin
Tol Eressea


Nov 27, 6:41pm

Post #3 of 9 (640 views)
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I have no idea what the writers' thinking was, but [In reply to] Can't Post

another fan must also have had a dream involving gummy bears, and they made a video about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pmVg1mEaEY

Does this help?
Wink


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 27, 6:48pm

Post #4 of 9 (631 views)
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You should have put a disclaimer [In reply to] Can't Post

do not eat fruit loops while watching! I seriously almost spewed them across my keyboard! Sly

What was the line from the book?

My writing and novels:

My Hobbit Fanfiction

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My historical novels ebook version compatible with all ereaders

You can also find my novel at most major book retailers online (and for those outside the US who prefer a print book, you can find the print version at Book Depository). Search "Amazing Grace Amanda Longpre'" to find it.

Happy reading everyone!


Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 27, 6:50pm

Post #5 of 9 (628 views)
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Lol [In reply to] Can't Post

Quick thinking then, as there was no pause Wink

My writing and novels:

My Hobbit Fanfiction

My historical novel print and kindle version

My historical novels ebook version compatible with all ereaders

You can also find my novel at most major book retailers online (and for those outside the US who prefer a print book, you can find the print version at Book Depository). Search "Amazing Grace Amanda Longpre'" to find it.

Happy reading everyone!


squire
Half-elven


Nov 27, 9:26pm

Post #6 of 9 (609 views)
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From a purely adaptationist point of view, the writers were simply following Tolkien's lead [In reply to] Can't Post

In the book at this point, there is no bald moment when Aragorn introduces himself and his companions in a quick trio of names. Each is named to Eomer at a different point in a complex dialogue that the film certainly had no time for. Here are the relevant points:

1. Aragorn denies that they are elvish folk, in response to Eomer's curiosity about their evident powers of invisibility:
‘One only of us is an Elf, Legolas from the Woodland Realm in distant Mirkwood.' (LR III.2)
The point is simply that Legolas is the only Elf among them, and that he doesn't come from Lothlorien where the hunters acquired their cloaks.

2. Half a page later, Gimli is angered by Eomer's disrespect for Galadriel:
‘Then Éomer son of Éomund, Third Marshal of Riddermark, let Gimli the Dwarf Glóin’s son warn you against foolish words.' (Ibid.)
Gimli gives his patronym to counter Eomer's use of the same device.

3. A page later, after some back and forth about who serves which lord, Aragorn pulls out his famous list of many names:
‘Elendil!’ he cried. ‘I am Aragorn son of Arathorn and am called Elessar, the Elfstone, Dúnadan, the heir of Isildur Elendil’s son of Gondor.' (Ibid.)
Aragorn gives his patronym as but one of his many titles. He is not trying to hide his identity here, clearly, but to proclaim it in an effort to overawe and win over the loyalty of Eomer.

The film's condensation of this to a simple sentence by Aragorn clears out all the excess verbiage and strategy, but it also over-simplifies the naming conventions to the point where you noticed that Legolas does not get to be 'son of' anybody. The screenwriters clearly felt they should stick, as much as possible, with the wording from the book in this scene. As well, even Tolkien might point out that Legolas just does not go by the 'son of...' title. Only Galadriel uses it. Other than that inter-elvish greeting, Thranduil's name is never even mentioned in the LotR narrative after the Council of Elrond.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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Cirashala
Tol Eressea


Nov 27, 9:33pm

Post #7 of 9 (607 views)
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That makes total sense [In reply to] Can't Post

to condense it down to the one sentence (esp since Gimli had insulted Eomer already). I do like that they used verbiage from the book as an adaptation, but given the titles used, it does seem rather amiss that Legolas' father/lineage wasn't stated when the others were.

From a filmography standpoint, I can definitely see the condensation and adaptation-wise the use of the words, but at the same time it seems rather odd to have used that phrase in light of the absence of said full conversation. If that conversation HAD happened, then yes it's within the context of that conversation.

But as the conversation stands in the film, I think this is one area where it would have made more sense, not less, to have Aragorn introduce Legolas in the same manner that he himself and Gloin were introduced.

My writing and novels:

My Hobbit Fanfiction

My historical novel print and kindle version

My historical novels ebook version compatible with all ereaders

You can also find my novel at most major book retailers online (and for those outside the US who prefer a print book, you can find the print version at Book Depository). Search "Amazing Grace Amanda Longpre'" to find it.

Happy reading everyone!


L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens


Nov 27, 10:29pm

Post #8 of 9 (602 views)
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Following Tolkien's lead in another way as well: [In reply to] Can't Post

Boromir is first introduced to us (by Elrond) as merely 'a man from the South'.

And Rose drew him in, and set him on the harpsichord bench, and put little Wilhelm Friedemann upon his lap.

He began composing a fugue. 'Well, I'm Bach,' he said.


Saruman
The Shire


Nov 27, 11:00pm

Post #9 of 9 (599 views)
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In general, [In reply to] Can't Post

I hadn't noticed that, but I see what you mean.

Thranduil is sadly almost a non-entity in the LotR books and films. I love Lee Pace, that's probably why Thranduil is my favorite character in the Hobbit movies.

"I have seen it..."

 
 

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