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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
Aragorn Plot Possibilities...
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Mole
Bree


Nov 22 2018, 1:45pm

Post #1 of 53 (2971 views)
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Aragorn Plot Possibilities... Can't Post

Hi, sorry if this has been discussed already (I've been away from here for a while).

I understand that Gandalf encourages/advises Aragorn to become interested in the Shire and in taking this advice he becomes known as Strider in this region.

Where does this information come from? Does anybody know why Gandalf advises him so and what exactly did he say to Aragorn?

I'd also like to know if there's any further information regarding his time in the Shire that we could expect to see in the new TV Series? For instance, did Aragorn have any significant encounters there?

For example, did he meet Tom Bombadil? Could we see him in the series?

Thanks for your thoughts :)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 22 2018, 2:11pm

Post #2 of 53 (2899 views)
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Tolkien left much unsaid. [In reply to] Can't Post

By the time of Bilbo's farewell party, Gandalf was convinced that the hobbit had found one of the Great Rings, if not the Master Ring then perhaps one of the surviving Rings of the Dwarves. That by itself would have been enough to advise Aragorn to have the Rangers keep a closer eye on the Shire. I don't know much, though, that is more specific about it.

I really think that Amazon's series is going to be following an earlier period in Aragorn's life, starting with a bit of his childhood and then jumping to his years wandering in Wilderland. It is entirely possible that his early travels took him to the Barrow-downs south of Bree and/or into the Old Forest to meet Tom Bombadil. I don't see one season spanning his years in Rohan, Gondor and lands to the East and South, but we also don't know much about the long-term plans for the show. The Hunt for Gollum doesn't start until after Bilbo leaves the Shire in T.A. 3001 so I don't expect it to be part of the series.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 22 2018, 2:16pm)


squire
Half-elven


Nov 22 2018, 2:14pm

Post #3 of 53 (2903 views)
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It's not clear that Aragorn has much experience of visiting the Shire itself [In reply to] Can't Post

It's probably more the case that, as one of the heads of the Rangers, he supervised the patrols of the wild lands outside the Shire, to protect the hobbits without their knowing they were being protected. He is known as Strider in Bree, which is not in the Shire; however, none of Frodo's party has ever heard of him, or even of any of the Rangers, and they are pretty well-connected folk within the Shire.

Of course, this series may ignore the context of Tolkien's creation - that the Rangers and Aragorn are unknown within the Shire, so as to provide suspense and a twist in the plot when the hobbits get to Bree - in favor of inventing what might seem plausible to less attentive fans of the original book, not to mention movie-only fans.

I would love to see a director try to insert Tom Bombadil into any dramatic vehicle for Tolkien's world. Just because Bakshi and Jackson refused the challenge, why should that warn this group away?



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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Lorien

Nov 22 2018, 2:53pm

Post #4 of 53 (2893 views)
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The Rangers were at Sarn Ford at the very least [In reply to] Can't Post

Since their guards there were overwhelmed or slain by the Black Riders. (The Attack on Sarn Ford is a critical moment in the plot of my screenplay for the 1st film). But I don't think that they'll change the secretive nature of the Rangers in favor of having hobbit/Ranger interactions. Also - I think if any hobbit might know Rangers, it would be Farmer Maggot. It's also not (I think) specified when Bilbo first met Aragorn. It could have been in Rivendell, but could it have been earlier?

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."


squire
Half-elven


Nov 22 2018, 3:13pm

Post #5 of 53 (2893 views)
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Of course [In reply to] Can't Post

Typically of Tolkien, his maps don't actually delineate the Bounds of the Shire, although he says they exist, since the Bounders turn folk away at relatively distinct points.

That said, I've always thought of Sarn Ford as outside the Shire, both by judging distances and lettering on the Vol 1 maps, and by the very fact that the Rangers took their station there to defend the Shire from the Black Riders.



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Mole
Bree


Nov 22 2018, 9:50pm

Post #6 of 53 (2858 views)
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5 Seasons... [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand that the series is expected to deliver 5 seasons.

It would be nice to read what some of you expect to be covered in that time? I am imagining that this would take the form of at least 50 episodes with 10 each season as a minimum so there's room for embellishment.

I am imagining that Aragorn's interest in the Shire would come in season 2, but whether he ever actually went within the borders of the Shire himself at this time I am unsure.

The Hunt for Gollum would take up much of season 5 and the series would end with Aragorn learning of Frodo's plan to leave the Shire with the Ring after meeting Gandalf at Sarn Ford. Such a finale would fit nicely with what Jackson has already presented to us as clearly Strider knows of Frodo, yet Frodo had not met him until that night in The Prancing Pony.

Within the series I hope to see the him discovering his true identity (perhaps earlier but akin to what may happen with Jon Snow in GoT), fall in love with Arwen, venture into The Wild, meet Gandalf, serving King Thengel of Rohan, aid Ecthelion of Gondor by leading the attack on Umbar, learn more of Sauron, enter Lothlorien and meet Arwen again. Elrond would then challenge him to become the King he was meant to be in order to be deserving of Arwen's love.

Then comes The Hunt for Gollum which could begin as early as Season 4 and would include Gandalf's suspicion of Bilbo or not depending on how it may fit with the films. But we could expect to see the Dead Marshes again, Fangorn, the Anduin, the Carrock, meet the Beornings, Mirkwood and see Thranduil again.

I can see why they would want to begin a series with Aragorn as the lead and feature his story that may lead right up to the films.


Mole
Bree


Nov 22 2018, 9:55pm

Post #7 of 53 (2859 views)
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Hoping to see his long blue feather this time.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, that makes complete sense and I agree about Old Tom - I am hoping to see his hat and long blue feather at the very least this time around!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 22 2018, 11:46pm

Post #8 of 53 (2849 views)
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Is it all about Aragorn though (SPOILERS)? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, the show is expected to have five seasons, but we do not know whether more than one of those will actually center on Aragorn. Even if they do, there is a span of twenty-nine years just between the reveal of his true heritage and his reunion with and engagement to Arwen in Lothlórien. It is during this period that Aragorn serves first Rohan then Gondor. Then there's another twenty-one years before the Hunt for Gollum, much of that spent journeying in the distant East and far South.

Check out LotR Appendix A and Appendix B ("The Tale of Years") and you will have a pretty good idea of Aragorn's general movements during those years.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 22 2018, 11:48pm)


Mole
Bree


Nov 23 2018, 12:12am

Post #9 of 53 (2842 views)
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Thank you for referring me to those Appendices. [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, you are right, I am assuming a lot here as I know we've not been updated for some time.

I don't know much about those journey's yet so I will read up, I hadn't realised the amount of time taken between such events but I can imagine that if they did want to tell a similar story on screen that they would make adjustments to these time frames.

We obviously can't be certain but I can imagine that the five seasons revolve around Aragorn but develop other characters too and in doing so an appetite for more spin-offs in the future.

Otherwise each season will be more like 'A Middle-Earth Story' and somewhat separate from eachother. Yet, such stories could have full series themselves if this first is successful enough.


2ndBreffest
Rivendell


Nov 23 2018, 11:02am

Post #10 of 53 (2784 views)
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actually... [In reply to] Can't Post

I was hoping this series would delve into his high school years. We'd get a glimpse into all of the wacky shenanigans, highjinx and tomfoolery of a young Aragorn trying to find his place in the wide world under the ever watchful eye of the Dark Lord. I'm sort of imagining Ferris Bueller, but with a mullet and leather pants.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 23 2018, 2:34pm

Post #11 of 53 (2757 views)
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Compressing Aragorn's backstory? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I don't know much about those journey's yet so I will read up, I hadn't realised the amount of time taken between such events but I can imagine that if they did want to tell a similar story on screen that they would make adjustments to these time frames.


I imagine we might see some changes to the details of Aragorn's backstory, just as we did in the films, but at the end of the day we still need to get from his setting out on his own soon in his twentieth year to reach the age of eighty-seven at the time of the War of the Ring. It seems to me that those two events (and perhaps a handful of others) should be treated as set points in time that should not be messed with.

Some events are not well documented in the first place: We don't know when or why Aragorn entered Moria on his own, though it must have been before Balin attempted to recolonize it; we don't know the precise years when Aragorn rode with King Thengel of Rohan, although we do know that from there he traveled to Gondor to serve under Ecthelion II. Other things, like the first time Aragorn and Gandalf meet, could be modified by the necessities of storytelling, but hopefully not too much.


In Reply To
We obviously can't be certain but I can imagine that the five seasons revolve around Aragorn but develop other characters too and in doing so an appetite for more spin-offs in the future.

Otherwise each season will be more like 'A Middle-Earth Story' and somewhat separate from eachother. Yet, such stories could have full series themselves if this first is successful enough.


I"m hoping for a fairly consistent focus on Aragorn, myself, but it is possible that the showrunner(s) might attempt more of an anthology approach (as in the series An American Horror Story or The Vikings).

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 23 2018, 2:38pm

Post #12 of 53 (2758 views)
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*chuckle* [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I was hoping this series would delve into his high school years. We'd get a glimpse into all of the wacky shenanigans, highjinx and tomfoolery of a young Aragorn trying to find his place in the wide world under the ever watchful eye of the Dark Lord. I'm sort of imagining Ferris Bueller, but with a mullet and leather pants.


Under the right creative team that could be a fun animated series, though I'd rather not go there. Tongue

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


2ndBreffest
Rivendell


Nov 23 2018, 5:42pm

Post #13 of 53 (2733 views)
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i can see it [In reply to] Can't Post

Since Tolkien has written so precious little regarding the early days of Aragorn, it really leaves the door wide open for the brilliant writers of today to really let their creative juices flow! The sky is literally the limit!


skyofcoffeebeans
Rivendell

Nov 23 2018, 5:51pm

Post #14 of 53 (2732 views)
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Bildungsroman [In reply to] Can't Post

Aragorn, son of Arathorn, and the Half-Blood Phoenix of Secrets


Archestratie
The Shire

Nov 29 2018, 4:27pm

Post #15 of 53 (2523 views)
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The Ranger and the Elf [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd like to see if Orlando Bloom would reprise his role as Legolass, and then the series can pick up basically at the end of BotFA. Maybe they dislike each other at first, then save each other's butts a few time, and grow to be friends. Gandalf could appear from time to time to give them a quest, and then it ends with the hunt for Gollum in season 5.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 29 2018, 8:48pm

Post #16 of 53 (2495 views)
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I'd really rather not see this rely on the film continuity. [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't mind some subtle nods to the films, but I would much rather see this based more heavily on Tolkien's book-canon.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Belegdir
Lorien


Nov 30 2018, 11:58am

Post #17 of 53 (2451 views)
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Please no. [In reply to] Can't Post

That sounds like every bad buddy cop show and film for the last forty years.


2ndBreffest
Rivendell


Nov 30 2018, 12:12pm

Post #18 of 53 (2449 views)
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brace yourself [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a feeling this may be exactly the sort of thing they're going to do. I don't think they will cast PJ movie actors though.


Archestratie
The Shire

Nov 30 2018, 2:56pm

Post #19 of 53 (2434 views)
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Think about it tho [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I have a feeling this may be exactly the sort of thing they're going to do. I don't think they will cast PJ movie actors though.

Orlando isn't that busy, and it would be instant star power added to the series. Not to mention it would draw in more female viewers which is critical in today's streaming media market. Toss in a cameo by Ian, Hugo, and Cate, and you have a guaranteed hit on your hands.


2ndBreffest
Rivendell


Nov 30 2018, 3:39pm

Post #20 of 53 (2426 views)
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yes [In reply to] Can't Post

but I'm just thinking they might decide to go with lesser known actors willing to work for less, in case this thing is a flop, which is quite possible. However on the other hand, it might be smart to cater to PJ movie fans because the likelihood this will alienate Tolkien purists is extremely high. As far as drawing in female viewers, finding a suitable replacement for Orlando wouldn't really be that difficult a task. It's not his amazing acting skills that drew them to him in the first place. Seriously, take any old instagram male model, give him a blonde wig, and throw him in front of a green screen and they'll save millions of dollars and achieve the same goal.


Archestratie
The Shire

Nov 30 2018, 4:16pm

Post #21 of 53 (2415 views)
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No pleasing everyone [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien purists will be alienated no matter what. Amazon is not going to worry about them. They're making a mass-market product and they haven't shied away from that fact.


2ndBreffest
Rivendell


Nov 30 2018, 4:32pm

Post #22 of 53 (2411 views)
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not necessarily [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't say it's impossible to create something that would appeal to the Tolkien purist, but it would likely not appeal to mainstream audiences and it's understandable Amazon wouldn't be willing to take that risk. Afterall, their interest in Middle-earth has little to do with a love for the works of J.R.R. Tolkien, but rather the love of all the potential money they can make off of an already well established fan-base. But I agree, Amazon will not be worrying about appealing to Tolkien purists, but fans of the PJ movies and modern fantasy like GoT and Disney Star Wars.


Ataahua
Superuser


Nov 30 2018, 6:48pm

Post #23 of 53 (2397 views)
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I'm pretty sure [In reply to] Can't Post

that good storytelling, acting and editing will draw in plenty of female viewers.


In Reply To
Orlando isn't that busy, and it would be instant star power added to the series. Not to mention it would draw in more female viewers.


Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Annael
Half-elven


Nov 30 2018, 7:47pm

Post #24 of 53 (2370 views)
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a "younger, edgier Aragorn"? [In reply to] Can't Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HeNZBItzps

please Eru no!

I am a dreamer of words, of written words. I think I am reading; a word stops me. I leave the page. The syllables of the words begin to move around … The words take on other meanings as if they had the right to be young.

-- Gaston Bachelard

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Annael
Half-elven


Nov 30 2018, 7:58pm

Post #25 of 53 (2371 views)
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Time warp! [In reply to] Can't Post

You remind me of when I was in college and some guy published a piece in the student paper about how girls weren't in to science fiction or, in fact, science.

It pissed me off at the time (I was pre-med, and also had been a sci-fi and fantasy fan since the age of 14 when I first read "Dune").

This was in 1970.

I am a dreamer of words, of written words. I think I am reading; a word stops me. I leave the page. The syllables of the words begin to move around … The words take on other meanings as if they had the right to be young.

-- Gaston Bachelard

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967

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