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Victariongreyjoy
Lorien
Nov 19 2018, 9:40pm
Post #1 of 66
(4434 views)
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What if the show flops?
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Could Amazon sell the rights to other studios if the show isn't successful?
(This post was edited by Victariongreyjoy on Nov 19 2018, 9:41pm)
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Welsh hero
Gondor
Nov 19 2018, 11:07pm
Post #2 of 66
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Amazon have too much invested in the show
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They can't afford to have it flop.
-Irfon
Twitter: @IrfonPennant
middle earth timeline FB: https://www.facebook.com/MiddleEarth1
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Belegdir
Lorien
Nov 20 2018, 12:05am
Post #3 of 66
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The first series will mostly like be shaky. A hit out of the gate may not be possible, but Amazon has the resources to give it time to develop. That will be the best outcome I think.
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Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan
Nov 20 2018, 5:41am
Post #4 of 66
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They have to make the show for it to flop! The longer it goes without any news the more likely it gets canned...
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Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan
Nov 20 2018, 1:13pm
Post #6 of 66
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You mean "The rights" it has a strangle hold on? You mean "The rights" that will slow this production down to a halt because they are impossible to please? Yep, those are the ones...
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Nov 21 2018, 7:44pm
Post #7 of 66
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My guess is that interest will likely fade, and studios will be looking to something else to exploit for maximum profits. Peter Jackson's Hobbit should have been a sure fire home run, but what we got ultimately was a forgettable floparino, and as a result, the casual fan enthusiasm is noticeably less than it was at the time of the lotr films.
(This post was edited by 2ndBreffest on Nov 21 2018, 7:57pm)
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Welsh hero
Gondor
Nov 21 2018, 8:30pm
Post #8 of 66
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It made a lot of money. It was a success.
-Irfon
Twitter: @IrfonPennant
middle earth timeline FB: https://www.facebook.com/MiddleEarth1
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Nov 21 2018, 8:58pm
Post #9 of 66
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yeah it made a lot of money, but that was largely due to the success and overall likeability of the lotr series of films. Once the Hobbit movies came out and it failed to live up to its predecessor, I noticed a very obvious drop-off of fan enthusiasm for future adaptations. Even now, are there really that many people clamoring for a "The Young Aragorn Chronicles" television series, pulled together for the most part out of thin air? No, I think if this comes out and its a dud, it will be a long time before we see anyone try it again, which is probably for the best.
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Welsh hero
Gondor
Nov 21 2018, 9:03pm
Post #10 of 66
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And I don't think it will. Lotr recently went on netflix, introducing many to the world.
Most people don't seem interested rigjt noe because they don't know it's happening
-Irfon
Twitter: @IrfonPennant
middle earth timeline FB: https://www.facebook.com/MiddleEarth1
(This post was edited by Welsh hero on Nov 21 2018, 9:05pm)
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Nov 21 2018, 9:16pm
Post #11 of 66
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but my expectations are very low for a number of reasons, one being the fact that the series isn't even based on a complete work. The likelihood that a group of modern day writers will sit down and create something that Tolkien himself would approve of isn't very good imo. I expect a cross between GoT and Peter Jackson's Hobbit with a smattering of disney Star Wars.
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Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan
Nov 21 2018, 9:16pm
Post #12 of 66
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Are you serious...? Whether you want to acknowledge it or not - The Hobbit was a terrible failure. It wasn't quite the train wreck that the SW prequels were (which also made a lot of money) BUT it wasn't far off! LOTR's was huge and the buzz carried for over 10 years (currently like GOT) but The Hobbit films came-went-and are now forgotten.
It killed the Middle Earth buzz completely. You never hear people talk about it anymore...
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Nov 21 2018, 9:34pm
Post #13 of 66
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PJ's Hobbit was the ultimate buzz-kill
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one sign I noticed that the thrill had gone, was after the second one came out, all of the merchandise was almost immediately marked for clearance and tossed aside in bins collecting dust.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
Nov 21 2018, 9:39pm
Post #14 of 66
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I think we're mixing two definitions: commercial success and artistic success
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Commercially the films were very successful, costing about $765m to make (in US dollars, I presume), and grossing almost $3 billion worldwide.
Artistically? Yeah, that's up for debate.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 21 2018, 10:25pm
Post #15 of 66
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It killed the Middle-earth buzz completely, eh?
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People never talk about it anymore? I guess this is all a dream then, and I'm not actually on a website made for Middle-earth fans who all seem to still be active three or four years after the Hobbit films "came-went-and are now forgotten".
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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Welsh hero
Gondor
Nov 21 2018, 10:32pm
Post #16 of 66
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This is what I mean. Commercial success.
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The films where commercial successes. So where the star wars prequel trilogy.
Did the prequels kill interest in Star Wars? Nope, it did the opposite. Bought a new generation in.
Amazon will not be going for artistic success with this. For them that's a bonus. It needs to intrest the "not us" croud.
-Irfon
Twitter: @IrfonPennant
middle earth timeline FB: https://www.facebook.com/MiddleEarth1
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 21 2018, 10:43pm
Post #17 of 66
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You don't know what Amazon is planning to do - unless you have insider information I don't. I don't think any of us can claim that Amazon will or won't do anything. We have no idea. Maybe when we have more details, we can start generalizing. For now, I think we're still in the stage where everything is speculation. Also, I think the show can be an intentional artistic success and still bring in new audiences. I don't see why staying true to the spirit of the original would automatically turn off the "not us" crowd. I know I'm in the optimistic minority, though, when it comes to this show. 
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
(This post was edited by Thor 'n' Oakenshield on Nov 21 2018, 10:43pm)
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Nov 21 2018, 10:44pm
Post #18 of 66
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Amazon will likely not be going for artistic success with this and are almost certainly only in it for the money. This is why I foresee cheesy un-Tolkienlike dialogue, lots of gratuitous violence and action sequences and heavy use of cgi.
(This post was edited by 2ndBreffest on Nov 21 2018, 10:46pm)
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 21 2018, 10:53pm
Post #19 of 66
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CGI doesn't make the show un-Tolkienlike
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I'm not sure how you can go about creating Middle-earth without CGI, honestly. Cheesy dialogue? Yes, I could see that becoming a problem, though if it's trying to compete with GoT then I imagine they'll try to make it stand out and not feel cliched. Action sequences - well, we've already seen Legolas fly around upside-down hanging from a bat and then defy gravity by bouncing along a stairway of falling stones. It's unlikely that Amazon could come up with something more cringeworthy than that. As for gratuitous violence, that is my biggest concern.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Nov 21 2018, 11:17pm
Post #20 of 66
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CGI isn't necessarily un-Tolkienlike
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but its overuse takes me out of the scene. In the lotr movies it was used when necessary and didn't stand out, in the Hobbit I was constantly aware of the fact that 90% of the movie was shot in front of a green screen. The main problem I see, is that for the most part there is no dialogue written by Tolkien for them to use even if they wanted to, therefore every bit of it will fall on the writers of the show. So it really depends on whether or not they will try to imitate Tolkien's style of writing, or the modernized Peter Jackson style of writing, which gave us unforgettable lines like, "There could be anything down my trousers.", and "Because it was real."
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 21 2018, 11:19pm
Post #21 of 66
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Those two lines are enough to make me sick. I've never really minded CGI, even in heavy doses. But the dialogue is a problem...I don't know why it's so hard to write a Tolkienesque sentence, but it really is. It's one of the reasons I think that the scriptwriters should definitely read the essay Ursula K. LeGuin wrote on that very subject.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Nov 21 2018, 11:38pm
Post #22 of 66
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I'm not sure it's necessarily difficult to write a Tolkienesque sentence, but I think it would be too much of a risk to write a series for modern audiences in that style. People back in Tolkien's day used to read classical literature, and understand the wit of Oscar Wilde. These days, people are running out to see the new Avengers movies and are literally rofl at the comedy stylings of Amy Schumer.
(This post was edited by 2ndBreffest on Nov 21 2018, 11:39pm)
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 21 2018, 11:50pm
Post #23 of 66
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(Amy Schumer, not so much). But that's a different matter. I don't really think that people are any less smart now than they were in Tolkien's day. I can easily understand Oscar Wilde's wit.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
(This post was edited by Thor 'n' Oakenshield on Nov 21 2018, 11:51pm)
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squire
Half-elven
Nov 22 2018, 12:46am
Post #24 of 66
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Some of Boyens' work on LotR's dialogue was quite good
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She often did very well at bridging the gap between Tolkien's various styles, which spanned a broad range from Edwardian banter to Victorian mock-medieval, and a more contemporary style that a modern film audience would more easily follow.
It can be done, BUT she had the advantage of starting from his own words. In fact, the further she wandered from adapting the book - that is, whenever she was writing for a new scene invented to condense or modify his story - the worse her stuff tended to sound from a Tolkien reader's perspective.
Now the new writers will be doing it second-hand, so to speak: making up new dialogue for new situations for new plots, with (hopefully) the goal of evoking the way Tolkien wrote different dialogue, for different situations and plots. I suspect their job will be a lot harder than Boyens' was. And even she produced her share of howlers and mood-breaking modernisms.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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2ndBreffest
Lorien
Nov 22 2018, 1:15am
Post #25 of 66
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The most concerning thing about this is the fact that everything is essentially going to be created from scratch. Even with decent writers, I doubt it will feel like much more than a piece of modern day fan-fiction.
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