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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 16 2018, 11:11pm
Post #1 of 26
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Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald
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Just got home from the theater and OMG that was so good!!!!!!!! I highly recommend this movie: I was so shocked! And the ending is a shocker, a real shocker! This officially ranks on my top 10 Greatest Movies.
Feel free to share your thoughts on the movie down below!!! I can't wait to hear what people have to say about that ending!
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Nov 17 2018, 3:01am
Post #2 of 26
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*spasm* I can't wait to see it!
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I was supposed to go today, but RL is not cooperating right now ;) I'm SO GLAD you liked it, but now you've got me scared!!! *bites nails*
We have been there and back again.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
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Nov 17 2018, 9:14am
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Unfortunately the odd editing and unclear storyline made the film's pacing a bit tedious. I did love the the cat-dragon beast (I want one!) and the actor who played the young Newt nailed Redmayne's characterisation, but those were the only high points for me.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 17 2018, 2:29pm
Post #4 of 26
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I thought it was very fast-paced, actually
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And I really loved the dynamics between Newt and Theseus, Newt and Leta, and even Newt and Tina this time around (eyes like a salamander  ). I loved Nicholas Flemel, thought he was a great nod to HP, and I really liked Nagini, but I would have given her more screentime. The flashbacks made it all so mysterious and dark - of course, I've been watching fan-theory videos to prepare myself for the last year, so maybe I came in expecting more of a complex plot with so many cat-and-mouse games with the audience? Did you find it too complicated, or just unclear? Because unclear I can see - there were moments where you had no idea what was going on, and then suddenly everything became clear, and then, SHOCKER!, another revelation throws everything askew again, and then at the end so many more questions are raised. It's a very, like, literary film, I guess? I did love the cat-dragon (Tzao Fu?), and both young Newt and young Leta were great. I also loved the quick flashbacks to Grindelwald and Dumbledore.
I hope you enjoy it, gramma!
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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Bwonder
The Shire
Nov 17 2018, 2:59pm
Post #5 of 26
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Amazing film!!!! i lovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvved it!!!!!!!!!!! Newt was absolutely great, all the acting was supreme, the story was wonderful, the ending...just everyone who hasn't seen it, just you wait, just you wait,  would definitely give ten out of ten, HIGHLY recommend 
"Forever and ever my brother,
hail and farewell" - Will Herondale
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Annael
Immortal
Nov 17 2018, 3:18pm
Post #6 of 26
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I felt that Rowling was trying to do too much and mixing up two very separate storylines, Newt's work with the magical beasts and the story of Dumbledore & Grindelwald - and also, punching up the Grindelwald story to make him equivalent to Voldemort, which we already know he wasn't. The result only took away from Newt's story, to the point that his mission to America fell completely flat and he just . . . leaves.
Reviews so far are not good of the new one. I'm going to give it a miss. And apparently there are three more coming. Shades of trying to make "The Hobbit" as long and important as LOTR - another effort that was a huge mistake imo. Or, come to think of it, the "Star Wars" prequels (except "Rogue One" which was great).
I am a dreamer of words, of written words. I think I am reading; a word stops me. I leave the page. The syllables of the words begin to move around … The words take on other meanings as if they had the right to be young.
-- Gaston Bachelard
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NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
(This post was edited by Annael on Nov 17 2018, 3:20pm)
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 17 2018, 3:24pm
Post #7 of 26
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Honestly, this series feels more epic than Harry Potter
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I would say it's very different from the Hobbit/LotR comparison. The action and the magic have been greatly expanded upon, Grindelwald is a much more fully-fleshed out villain than Voldemort, and Newt is now very involved in the storyline - trust me, I hated him in the first film, but in this one I really liked him because his dynamics with the other characters bring him deep into the wizarding war in unexpected ways. The characters are all much more intriguing and mysterious, also.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
(This post was edited by Thor 'n' Oakenshield on Nov 17 2018, 3:28pm)
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Annael
Immortal
Nov 17 2018, 3:50pm
Post #8 of 26
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the whole premise of the Harry Potter series is that the wizarding world is facing a threat unlike any other it's ever known. Making Grindelwald a bigger villain undercuts that premise. A true prequel would lead up to the events that later unfold, not try to outdo them.
And I liked Newt in the first film. I thought his story with the beasts got completely overshadowed, and that disappointed me. Not really inclined to see that other story expanded.
I am a dreamer of words, of written words. I think I am reading; a word stops me. I leave the page. The syllables of the words begin to move around … The words take on other meanings as if they had the right to be young.
-- Gaston Bachelard
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NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
(This post was edited by Annael on Nov 17 2018, 3:53pm)
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 17 2018, 4:15pm
Post #9 of 26
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Voldemort was not a greater villain than Grindelwald, IMO
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But the nature of his existence, and the fact that he had Horcruxes, made him much more difficult to defeat. Grindelwald doesn't have Horcruxes, but he does - well, SPOILER ALERT!, he has something called a Blood Pact that makes it impossible for Dumbledore to fight him, or vice versa. But even so, that seems like it will be easier to overcome than the Horcruxes. Anyway, I didn't even say that Grindelwald was more powerful than Voldemort - I said more fully fleshed-out, which he is, because his motives are at least less purely evil. There's a specific scene near the end of the film where he shows his followers the horrors that humans will cause in World War II, including a stark vision of an atomic explosion, and asks for their help in defending the Wizarding World from that fate.
Newt has plenty to do in this second film too - he's still very much the hero, and is only possibly overshadowed sometimes by Leta Lestrange. But his relationship with her keeps him in the spotlight even during those scenes when she's the focus. There's a lot of Fantastic Beasts also - including a pack of baby Nifflers who are some of the most adorable creatures you've ever seen.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
(This post was edited by Thor 'n' Oakenshield on Nov 17 2018, 4:19pm)
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
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Nov 17 2018, 7:53pm
Post #10 of 26
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I really didn't like that. *spoiler*
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he has something called a Blood Pact that makes it impossible for Dumbledore to fight him, or vice versa. .
In the books when it was said Dumbledore refused to fight him, the implication was that it was due to his feelings for Grindlewald - that he couldn't bring himself to kill the man he was once so close to. That the most powerful wizard in the world was hamstrung by his emotions gave Dumbledore a fragility that was very human.
To find out that the obstruction was mechanical (magical) rather than emotional is almost as bad as The Force being engendered by midichlorians. Some of the (not literal) magic has gone.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Nov 17 2018, 7:54pm)
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 17 2018, 8:05pm
Post #11 of 26
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To be honest, I also was frustrated by that *spoiler*
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Since the Blood Pact seems to have been devised simply to act as a substitute for the romantic relationship between Dumbledore and Grindelwald. That's very annoying, I'll admit. Hopefully in future movies JK shows us the depth of their relationship a lot more effectively. The hints and implications are all well and good, but they're very vague. I'd rather see some solid flashbacks, like we got with Yusuf and Leta.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
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Nov 17 2018, 8:33pm
Post #12 of 26
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Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Annael
Immortal
Nov 18 2018, 6:36pm
Post #13 of 26
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we're just going to have to agree to disagree
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re Voldemort vs. Grindelwald, the Harry Potter Wiki says Grindelwald . . .
was considered to be one of the most powerful and dangerous Dark Wizards of all time, considered to be surpassed only by Tom Riddle. And in fact, Voldemort killed Grindelwald. So I'd say Grindelwald was the Saruman to Voldemort's Sauron. Bad, but not as bad as.
I agree with Ataahua about the Blood Pact = midichlorians!
I think you've missed my point that what I wanted to see was a movie about Newt and his fantastic beasts and objected to this OTHER story, which feels very much like a revisit of the Voldemort story (been there, done that) taking it over. A friend, writing a review of the second movie, said The beasts in this movie were largely there because it's called 'Fantastic Beasts' and so they need to have some. Otherwise, he said, they have nothing to do with the plot.
Curious about one thing: Did you see all the Harry Potter movies in the theater as they came out, or later on, on video?
I am a dreamer of words, of written words. I think I am reading; a word stops me. I leave the page. The syllables of the words begin to move around … The words take on other meanings as if they had the right to be young.
-- Gaston Bachelard
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NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 18 2018, 10:32pm
Post #14 of 26
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I respect your opinion completely, and it's perfectly understandable
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though I do have to add that the Fantastic Beasts are a crucial part of the storyline: Credence is one himself, being an Obscurus. The Zaowu beast in this movie plays a large role, while the Niffler SPOILER ALERT! ends up possibly saving the world by stealing the Blood Pact pendant from Grindelwald. Granted, the Matagots and the Kelpie did seem unnecessary, but the baby Nifflers were adorable, honestly. Also, an Augurey showed up in this movie and may have foretold Jacob's approaching death.
I'm still honestly conflicted myself about which is more evil: Grindelwald or Voldemort. Maybe in my haste I may have suggested Grindelwald was more powerful, but if I did I would instead say this - Voldemort was more powerful, but Grindelwald is by far the more interesting, developed and understandable villain. Though we have yet to see his mysterious backstory, I'm confident that when it is revealed Grindelwald will become even more intriguing, and almost sympathetic. He uses visions of WWII and nuclear apocalypse to convince his followers that humans are a violent and wild bunch of barbarians. He's a very convincing enemy.
The Blood Pact is really the one part I had problems with, because it's contrived to sidestep the issue of Dumbledore's love for Grindelwald.
And my sister also wants to see a movie about Newt and his fantastic beasts, and that's why she loved both the first, and now the second. It's always gonna be Newt-centric - in fact, it might end up pitting Newt against the one beast he can't tame, Credence, in the final battle, which would be very interesting to see. Regardless, if you don't like the Grindelwald storyline, that's your opinion, and I'm certainly not gonna try to convince you to love Grindelwald!
And in answer: I did see some of the later Harry Potter movies in theaters, yes, but I was not a fan during the first years. My elder sister got me involved in the franchise.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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Annael
Immortal
Nov 19 2018, 3:46pm
Post #15 of 26
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I noticed that people who came to the Star Wars franchise during the time that the prequels came out thought they were much better than those of us who had seen the first three in theaters . . . and people whose first full-on experience of Tolkien was the Hobbit movies don't always agree that the LOTR ones were much better. While those like my niece who "grew up with" Harry (she was the same age as him when the books came out) went to see The Cursed Child in NYC recently and told me she burst into tears because she had missed him so much. She saw the first Fantastic Beasts and like me went "meh."
I am a dreamer of words, of written words. I think I am reading; a word stops me. I leave the page. The syllables of the words begin to move around … The words take on other meanings as if they had the right to be young.
-- Gaston Bachelard
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NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 19 2018, 4:26pm
Post #16 of 26
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Well I like LotR much more than the Hobbit, actually
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And the original Star Wars more than any of the sequels/prequels. I think what really attracts me to Fantastic Beasts is how JK Rowling has designed it as more of an interactive experience with her audience, based around the five movies but not limited to them. SPOILER ALERT!, the rumors in the beginning of the movie that Credence is Corvus Lestrange had been all but confirmed by her much earlier, so that's why it's kind of taken for granted in the movie itself. Same with Nagini, whose appearance JK had already teased weeks ago. That's why she doesn't get a big reveal in the movie for those audience-members who haven't been following the behind-the-scenes stuff. In some ways it's very risky, because obviously only a small portion of moviegoers are gonna be dedicated Pottermore members who are actively following this whole thing, minute-by-minute. But for me, being involved in this whole process, where JK specifically leaves clues and hints for the audience, is really fun. For instance, I just got the Screenplay for Crimes of Grindelwald last night, and it contains a lot of information that you wouldn't realize just by watching the movie - to fully comprehend the bigger picture, I think this franchise requires constant audience involvement. And, if you're just a casual movie-goer, or if you've only seen the HP movies, or you just don't keep up to date with JK Rowling, it can easily become overwhelming. The game of hide-and-seek she played with the casting of Jessica Williams, only to have her show up for barely five seconds in the final film, is representative of her method of playing games with her fan-base. Throwing a giant plot-twist into the end of the movie and then telling us to consider whether what we think we know about it is really true, is also just like her.In other words, you have to be really dedicated to the HP mythology to catch every reference and hint in this movie. HP movie fans coming to see this movie might not remember Nicholas Flamel, or even Nagini the Maledictus, and I can't blame them! I almost wonder if the Lord of the Rings TV show will feel a bit like the Fantastic Beasts franchise, since it's also based off the legendarium behind the main storyline - I would love if it has that feel, honestly, but I might be in the minority!
I guess I was never invested in Harry's story enough to feel disappointed that this series isn't about him - though I have a suspicion that, what with Deathly Hallows playing such a large part in the merchandising, that Potters will show up at some point. I'm glad to know that The Cursed Child is good, though - me and my sisters are going to see it in December and can't wait! 
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Nov 19 2018, 6:08pm
Post #17 of 26
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I'm going on Tuesday (tomorrow) *twitch*
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I'm gonna sit back, unplug my brain, and be swept away!!! I'M SO BLATHERED! I'll let ya know ;)
We have been there and back again.
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Nov 19 2018, 6:23pm
Post #18 of 26
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IT'S OUT ALREADY?!?!?!?
bigger on the inside...
Na 'Aear, na 'Aear! Mýl 'lain nallol, I sûl ribiel a i falf 'loss reviol...
To the sea, to the sea, the white gulls are crying, the wind is blowing and the white foam is flying... (JRR Tolkien, Legolas Song of the Sea)
Aue, aue,
Te fenua, te mālie
Nā heko hakilia
We know the way
(Te Vaka, Moana soundtrack)
Member of Horse Manure Movers Local 101, Raptor Wranglers & Rehab, and Night Fury Trainers Assoc. Owned by several cats and a very small team of maniacal sled dogs... sorry Radagast, those rabbits were delicious...
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 19 2018, 6:25pm
Post #19 of 26
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OMG, yes, it's out - since Friday!!!
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"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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jlj93byu
Rivendell
Nov 19 2018, 8:20pm
Post #20 of 26
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Early on when these were announced, I agreed that it seemed like a stretch to intertwine Newt's storyline with what was on the surface a very separate one of Grindelwald and Dumbledore. Even after the first movie, I still thought it was a little weak, albeit a little more clear.
But after this one, I don't have any issues with it anymore, especially now that we know Newt was in New York at Dumbledore's request to begin with. For me, it is very simple, and goes back to Newt's days at Hogwarts. All we need is a believable beginning to his involvement, which I believe is provided. Newt was obviously a very different student at Hogwarts that stood out to his teachers, and Dumbledore knew this, as well as that Newt was driven by compassion and love for creatures and not power or popularity. This made Newt VERY unique, and made him even that much easier to understand (and, yes, even manipulate) to Dumbledore. Well, knowing exactly what made Newt tick, and that he wouldn't be tempted by things probably 95% of other wizards would, made Newt a very easy ally for Dumbledore to enlist. Once enlisted, Newt obviously gets deeper entrenched in the events and story, but as long as beginnings of that relationship are believable, which I feel they are, then I'm good with it.
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 19 2018, 8:49pm
Post #21 of 26
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And I certainly agree. I think that, if things go as I imagine, then POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT!, we could see Newt face off in the final film against Credence - the one beast he can't tame. When (if) that happens, I will be very interested in the outcome. As Leta tells him, "You never met a monster you couldn't love", it would be interesting if Newt couldn't bring himself to kill Credence if it came to it.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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jlj93byu
Rivendell
Nov 20 2018, 12:36am
Post #22 of 26
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I hadn't thought of that--that would be awesome, and it makes so much sense that I think it may actually happen. It would be a poetic end to Newt's story in these films, and also provide some profound character moments.
As for this one, I'm wanting to see it again. My first viewing was an interesting experience, I found myself really loving certain things, but then being disappointed in others. About halfway thru, I found myself realizing I wasn't quite sure what the plot was driving towards specifically, and felt like there had been a ton of exposition and setup. Some people REALLY dogged on it for those reasons, but while I noticed them, I still enjoyed it enough overall to only consider them annoyances and not significant enough to ruin the experience.
Overall, I thoroughly enjoyed it and while not as fun as the first, it was definitely more dramatic and dark, and had much more heft to its story. It did have a lot of new and unique magic, which was fun, such as Newt's detective work at the scene of the circus. Seeing Dumbledore and Hogwarts was worth the price of admission alone, as was Nicholas Flamel. I'm glad he actually became active and a part of the action. I'm curious what they'll do with him in future films. What an epic finale, though my kids all cringed a little at the high body count. A lot of people bit the dust in this one, and the scene with the toddler in Paris caught even me off guard. I don't mind the tone, however, because I don't view these as "Harry Potter" films like too many people do, they are not, they are their own series set in the same universe, so I don't expect them to feel like Harry Potter films simply set in a different time.
Anyways, I enjoyed your analysis and can't wait to see it again, as well as continue to devour all the different analysis of the film I can find and get myself stoked for the third one, which let's be honest, I'm already super stoked.
(This post was edited by jlj93byu on Nov 20 2018, 12:47am)
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 20 2018, 1:26am
Post #23 of 26
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I'm also eager to see it again
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And I think I will, even before it's available to buy (which is in March, I believe). I try not to pay too much attention to reviews in general - reviews for Nutcracker were awful, but I liked that too. This one is getting a mixed reaction (but generally from American audiences: overseas it's gonna pull in a much larger profit, if the statistics I was seeing were correct).
I am also curious as to how Nicholas Flamel will play a part in future FB movies. If a theory is correct, then SPOILER ALERT! Flamel's book, with the moving pictures that he talks to, might be an encyclopedia of all the powerful wizards allied against Grindelwald - the book is emblazoned with a phoenix, suggesting it could be the origin of the Order of the Phoenix, and Flamel himself could be it's founder, or a key member.
The body count at the end was indeed high - though I wonder if Leta is actually dead. The scene with the toddler was chilling.
I'm definitely stoked for the third one already - I heard a rumor it'll take place in Brazil, not sure whether that's true or not. It would be a very interesting and fresh new locale for the series, for sure.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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jlj93byu
Rivendell
Nov 26 2018, 6:22pm
Post #24 of 26
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During last week, as I continued to talk with my family about this, it grew on me more and I cared less about the things that initially bugged me. We watched the first one again and I found that my appreciation for both the first and second was increased after doing so.
Come Saturday, my wife and oldest son had a strong desire to see it again, as did I, so we went. I enjoyed it much more the second time, and my 11 year son did especially because he said he knew what was going on and wasn't nearly as confused.
I initially felt like this movie lacked a central plot to set it apart from all the others, and while it didn't have as much closure in an ending as the first one did, I did feel like it was defined by something that was achieved and resolved by the end--Grindelwald's pursuit and recruitment of Credence. That was, at least to me, the main force driving the plot in this one that was resolved by the end.
I also noticed that the woman Flamel was talking to in his book is an Illvermorny professor who will feature more prominently in future movies. I can't wait for the third one and am very excited to see the future of these films.
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan
Nov 26 2018, 7:17pm
Post #25 of 26
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I think I'll be going again in a few days.
That Ilvermorny professor is Eulalie Hicks, and I do think we'll see more of her - she could be one of the key members of the original Order of the Phoenix. I think we'll see a lot of Dumbledore's web of international contacts going forward.
"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."
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