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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Rewatching
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rivendell

Nov 6, 2:34pm

Post #26 of 90 (731 views)
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I've always noticed those leaves! [In reply to] Can't Post

But I've never minded them: I thought they were beautiful. The only bits of CGI I don't really like are during the storm on Caradhras (though, actually, during my last rewatch I barely even noticed that, and I totally loved the scene, no problems), and Treebeard.

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."


CuriousG
Half-elven


Nov 6, 5:30pm

Post #27 of 90 (705 views)
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Some more CGI that holds up well after 17 years is the Balrog--still amazing. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


the 13th warrior
Rivendell


Nov 8, 7:13am

Post #28 of 90 (595 views)
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whet your appetite for extendeds... [In reply to] Can't Post

hello cygnus, i will try and give you a few coming attractions that really make the ext's.
sam and frodo watching high elves in procession through the shire woods on their way to the grey havens and the ships to valinor.

galadriel telling aragorn he is at the crossroads, defeat sauron and become king or lose and fall into darkness.

eowyn longing for aragorn is more developed in the ext's and she unravels clues to his lineage to elendil and isildur, and ancient numenor.

a fresh look at boromir and his deep love of his brother faramir, and an even darker look at denethor.

these are just some of the new gold nuggets and the longer scenes, re worked sections. if gandalf did dialogue in the OG it becomes narration voice over in the ext's, for example.


enjoy them some day. they are worthwhile. really enriches the lotr experience.

The 13th Warrior, Left Field Caliphate**From the scroll rooms of Gondor, watching ext. featurettes**



ps good luck with your health and recovery.


(This post was edited by the 13th warrior on Nov 8, 7:14am)


CuriousG
Half-elven


Nov 8, 2:13pm

Post #29 of 90 (564 views)
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Symbolism of falling leaves [In reply to] Can't Post

I replayed the Rivendell scene again, and the best part about it is how wonderfully it conveys the atmosphere of Rivendell. It is, after all, one of only two Elf-realms maintained by a Ring of Power, so it has not only regular Elf-magic making it feel special, it has Vilya-enhanced magic permeating it, making visitors feel like they have wandered into a fairy realm and not just a high-end Bree or a fancy spa serving kale and quinoa with yoga four times a day. That comes across in the books and is really hard to do in movies, but somehow they made it work. The falling leaves are just a part of that, and as you say, they symbolize that this pretty place has an expiration date to it.

I think the leaves are a later impression. What makes the first impression is the way the light falls in the valley, the abundance of slow-moving waterfalls, and the intricately carved architecture--all those vine-themed gazebos and gallery roofs lead the eye on and on to more rich detail, and a little choral music in the background like a heavenly choir doesn't hurt.


Cygnus
The Shire

Nov 8, 4:21pm

Post #30 of 90 (549 views)
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Reply [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Ataahua, As I said, I'm pretty low tech so I'm likely going to make some basic mistakes and have some basic questions. I appreciate your help and patience. It seems like my two options are "quote" and "reply to this post" so what would I press to continue the conversation if I want to stay on that general subject but do not want to refer to any particular quote or any particular post? It seems like I can't post anything without first clicking one of those two things I just mentioned. (I hope it's okay that I didn't go to the Feedback board with this question like you suggested)


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 8, 6:16pm

Post #31 of 90 (558 views)
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You can reply to the original post. [In reply to] Can't Post

That'll put your comment at the bottom of the main discussion thread. :)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Cygnus
The Shire

Nov 9, 2:32am

Post #32 of 90 (514 views)
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The Lonely Mountain [In reply to] Can't Post

So, who ended up living in Erebor after Battle of the Five Armies? Was it the dwarves from The Iron Mountains? Was that addressed in the books? It was never mentioned in the other three movies.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 9, 1:29pm

Post #33 of 90 (469 views)
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The Dwarves of Erebor [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
So, who ended up living in Erebor after Battle of the Five Armies? Was it the dwarves from The Iron Mountains? Was that addressed in the books?


At least some of Dáin's folk from the Iron Hills doubtless settled in Erebor after he became King under the Mountain. Those who remained were probably governed by Dáin's son Thorin Stonehelm (b. TA 2866).

The Dwarves of the Iron Hills who migrated to Erebor would have soon been joined by Thorin's followers returning from the Blue Mountains; though I doubt that they could have reached Lonely Mountain before the Spring of 2942 (2941 in the films). Dís, mother of Fili and Kili, would likely have been among those returning, assuming she still lived.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Cygnus
The Shire

Nov 9, 10:24pm

Post #34 of 90 (407 views)
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Dain [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow! Thanks for this information. Even though I love the movies so much and have seen them so often I still feel like a babe in the woods when it comes to knowing this stuff. Clearly I missed the obvious since I never thought of Dain becoming king. For somebody like me who has only seen the movies there is clearly a lot to learn. I hope I don't become a pest because I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions. Some people like to answer questions and some don't. My apologies to those who don't. Is there a seperate thread for people like me who ask a lot of questions? I could come up with a ton of them. My mind is always spinning with curiosity when I watch the movies because there's so much to learn.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Nov 9, 10:48pm

Post #35 of 90 (402 views)
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Have you seen the extended cuts? [In reply to] Can't Post

The extended edition of The Battle of the Five Armies includes a funeral scene for Thorin, Fili and Kili before Bilbo departs. At the end of this scene, there’s a brief moment where Dain is declared King Under the Mountain.

It’s a scene that I really wish had been left in the Theatrical Cut.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that." - Viggo Mortensen


Cygnus
The Shire

Nov 10, 12:28am

Post #36 of 90 (398 views)
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Extended edition [In reply to] Can't Post

I probably should look into getting extended editions. Do all 6 movies have one? How many more minutes are added to each movie on average? Would it be best to buy all 6 together?


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Nov 10, 12:48am

Post #37 of 90 (400 views)
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Best way to go is the two box sets. [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you have a Blu-ray player? There are Blu-ray box sets for each trilogy. Individual releases are also available for The Hobbit films, at least. There have also been individual releases for the extended LotR films, but the box set is easier to track down.

Here's some links to their respective pages on Blu-ray.com, so you can take a look at the packaging, bonus features, etc. (Ignore the movie review portion of The Hobbit pages - the reviewer wasn't very enthusiastic - rest assured, if you loved the films, you'll love the extended material as well).

https://www.blu-ray.com/...-ray/59886/#Overview

https://www.blu-ray.com/...ray/139344/#Overview

Here's the amount of material added for each film:

The Fellowship of the Ring - 30 minutes
The Two Towers - 44 minutes
The Return of the King - 51 minutes

An Unexpected Journey - 13 minutes
The Desolation of Smaug - 25 minutes
The Battle of the Five Armies - 20 minutes

The in-depth documentaries are worth the price of these sets alone. They are without a doubt the best behind the scenes material ever made, with each film's content running for several hours (The Hobbit films' documentaries stretched to ten hours each).

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that." - Viggo Mortensen

(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Nov 10, 12:50am)


Cygnus
The Shire

Nov 12, 2:55pm

Post #38 of 90 (301 views)
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Blu-ray [In reply to] Can't Post

No, we don't have a Blu-Ray player. That' a lot of time added! It sounds worth it. I would love to see all those additional scenes...the more the better! As far as the other things, I have watched some of the extra stuff on my DVDs. It is pretty interesting but overall I'm not a big fan of seeing that. Middle Earth is where I go to get away from the real Earth and.....while seeing how the movies were made is eductional and fascinating......reminding myself that something is fantasy takes a little edge off the fantasy. That might be one reason I never look into a lot about the lives of the actors. If I was watching the movies I wouldn't want to all of the sudden get an image of them driving their car or seeing them on social media looking completely different. Also, I don't want to know what their political views are. (sorry, I'm getting carried away with this...I know that kind of stuff wouldn't be on the DVD bonus feature). I can see why people want that and someday I might (in fact, there's a good chance of it) but for now I like it like this. Thanks so much for the information. Folks like you are why this place is so awesome!


Cygnus
The Shire

Nov 12, 6:51pm

Post #39 of 90 (295 views)
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Arkenstone [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I still feel like a babe in the woods when it comes to knowing this stuff. Clearly I missed the obvious since I never thought of Dain becoming king.


Quote
So, who did Dain end up getting the Arkenstone from, assuming it was given to him? Is the answer in the books or just speculation?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 12, 7:46pm

Post #40 of 90 (290 views)
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Oh, the answer is definitely in the book! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
They buried Thorin deep beneath the Mountain, and Bard laid the Arkenstone upon his breast.

"There let it lie till the Mountain falls!" he said. "May it bring good fortune to all his folk that dwell here after!"

Upon his tomb the Elvenking then laid Orcrist, the elvish sword that had been taken from Thorin in captivity. It is said in songs that it gleamed ever in the dark if foes approached, and the fortress of the dwarves could not be taken by surprise. There now Dain son of Nain took up his abode, and he became King under the Mountain, and in time many other dwarves gathered to his throne in the ancient halls. Of the twelve companions of Thorin, ten remained. Fili and Kili had fallen defending him with shield and body, for he was their mother's elder brother. The others remained with Dain; for Dain dealt his treasure well.


Dain honored Thorin's promise to deliver one-fourteenth share of the treasure to Bard the Bowman for the restoration of Dale and the rebuilding of Lake-town.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 12, 7:48pm)


Cygnus
The Shire

Nov 13, 9:39pm

Post #41 of 90 (264 views)
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Wow! [In reply to] Can't Post

Laketown was rebuilt? That explains why Bilbo (In The Fellowship of the Ring) said he wanted to revist. So, 4 posts ago Elfstone said that the 6 extended movie versions add an average of 30 minutes to the standard versions. If everything in the book (like Thorin's burial scene that you just mentioned) was in the movies would they have had to make twice as many movies to get everything on screen that was in the books? I've also heard that a lot of things were added to the movies that weren't in the books. What other major characters besides the white orc were added? I CLEARLY HAVE A LOT MORE TO EXPLORE! Thanks for your response.

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." - Gandalf


ElanorTX
Grey Havens


Nov 13, 9:48pm

Post #42 of 90 (259 views)
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a friendly invitation to spend some time this Saturday at Homecoming [In reply to] Can't Post

Check Off Topic for Friday Fiesta where we share news of the week and weekend. Good place to introduce yourself.

Reading Room is for JRRT book discussions. In January we are starting some of his shorter works, e.g. Farmer Giles. If you like reading, this series is entry-level. Check Main for the details or PM me.

ElanorTX

"I shall not wholly fail if anything can still grow fair in days to come."



Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 13, 9:58pm

Post #43 of 90 (256 views)
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The New Lake-town (SPOILERS) [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, Esgaroth was rebuilt, bigger and better, a bit north of the previous location. In the book, the old Master survived Smaug's attack only to perish sometime later after having made off with much of the gold donated by Bard. This is the new Lake-town in The One Ring Roleplaying Game:



Radagast is mentioned in Tolkien's The Hobbit but never actually appears. The Elvenking isn't named as Thranduil until The Lord of the Rings, nor does Legolas appear in the original book. Tauriel and Alfrid are original to the films, though Tolkien did write that the Master of Lake-town had advisors. Azog the defiler is canon, but he was killed by Dain in the Battle of Moria (Battle of Azanulbizar) long before the Quest of Erebor. During Bilbo's return journey to Bag End, he learned about Gandalf's business in the South and its connection to the Necromancer while he and Gandalf were staying in Rivendell. Otherwise, Tolkien left it a mystery for the reader until the Council of Elrond in LotR.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 13, 10:02pm)


Cygnus
The Shire

Nov 15, 1:04am

Post #44 of 90 (201 views)
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Got the books! [In reply to] Can't Post

 I did introduce myself in off topic before but I'll check out the Fiesta. I'm pretty excited. I got the books today. I was in a place called Books a Million and first picked up the Hobbit. There were different covers. I got the one with the cartoonish drawing of Smaug guarding his gold. My copy of LOTR is the one that has the dark, gray, snowy mountain on the cover. It is 1178 pages. In a different store I also picked up a LOTR 2019 calender. They had Hobbit calanders there too but I really only needed one. I may not start reading the Hobbit until Jan 1 but when I start I'll begin a thread where I'll likely have a bunch of questions. I flipped through them but won't get them again until Christmas (my wife already has them wrapped) and I like the idea of having something to look forward to. It makes me feel like a kid again on Christmas....and gives me time to get some other things out of the way so I can focus on them all year. I plan on reading them slow to soak them in better. I've read books fast before and always regretted it. I'm excited!

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." - Gandalf


Cygnus
The Shire

Nov 15, 4:12am

Post #45 of 90 (190 views)
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Swamp question [In reply to] Can't Post

I have been rewatching all 6 movies and since I just got the books I know all of my questions will be answered eventually so I have avoided being a pest and asking 100 questions here but I just can't resist this one. When Gollum is leading Frodo and Sam through the swamp just before they get to the Black Gate there are well preserved bodies in the water. When Frodo falls in the water zombie-like characters try to get him before Gollum saves him. What is the significance of those characters?

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." - Gandalf


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 15, 4:27am

Post #46 of 90 (189 views)
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Years and years and years ago [In reply to] Can't Post

there was the Battle of Dagorlad between Elves/Men and the forces of Mordor. The dead were buried there and over the years the marshland grew, taking over the grave-land. In the books, the dead use little lights to draw people in deeper until they fall into the pools and drown; in the movies, PJ went more explicit, with the ghosts trying to physically drag Frodo to the bottom of the (remarkably deep) marsh pond.

Message-board peeps: was it 'Dagorlad' that was misspelt in the map that Faramir uses in The Two Towers? (My memory fails me.)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Thu, 3:11pm

Post #47 of 90 (169 views)
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Faramir's Map [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Message-board peeps: was it 'Dagorlad' that was misspelt in the map that Faramir uses in The Two Towers? (My memory fails me.)


I did a Google search. If this is an accurate image below then that would seem to be the case:



"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Thu, 8:25pm

Post #48 of 90 (140 views)
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Yep, that's it. :) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Cygnus
The Shire

Thu, 10:39pm

Post #49 of 90 (134 views)
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I see dead people [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the response. So they were just common soldiers who died in the battle? The well preserved one who initially caused Frodo to fall in the water wasn't an old king or anything? He looked like he might have had more significance than just a commoner...especially if he had the ability to pull off a deed like that.

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you." - Gandalf


Darkstone
Immortal


Thu, 11:21pm

Post #50 of 90 (118 views)
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Legolas' disowned brother? Semi-redeemed orc? [In reply to] Can't Post

Allan Smith aka "Dead Marshes Elf".

Note that he is *not* the elf whose hair is tousled by exploding Sauron in FOTR's prologue. (That is Ben Britton, aka Fereveldir, who later dies at Helm's Deep.)

Nor is he, as some claim, Oropher (Legolas' grandfather) as the Dead Marshes Elf seems to be wearing Gil-galad's colors, which Oropher refused to march under.

Jackson notes in the commentaries how impressed he was by Smith's ability to hold his breath underwater long enough for the shot.

Allan Smith did act as Orlando Bloom's stunt double in LOTR, Kingdom of Heaven, and The Hobbit. So one might imagine Dead Marshes Elf as Legolas' brother who defied his grandfather and marched with Gil-galad.

To add in another level of dark mystery, Smith does show up in The Hobbit as Ragash, an officer under Azog the Destroyer. (The one in BoFA who relays to Azog that the army is ready to attack on the next day's morning.)

Perhaps upon his death in the BoFA-EE his spirit returns to the Dead Marshes where he had originally been taken by the Dark Forces and resumes his natural elf form in an undead state that only Thranduil's forgiveness can finally free him from?

Or not.

******************************************
"Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in
thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond
all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled
mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
"Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
"But no living man am I! I am Eowyn, daughter of Theodwyn!"
"Er, really? My mother's name was Theodwyn, too!"
"No way!"
"Way!"
"Wow! Let's stop fighting and be best friends!"
"Cool!!"

-Zack Snyder's The Return of the King

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