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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: The Arena:
The Elves Of Lorien VS Elves Of Rivendell

The Shire

Oct 24 2018, 4:00am

Post #1 of 5 (17517 views)
The Elves Of Lorien VS Elves Of Rivendell Can't Post

i honestly dont know who i would choose. I mean we know that Elrond would be a great leader based on his age and battle with Isildur but Lorien has Galadriel. Honestly ive always considered Lorien to be the 'hide from danger keep peace' type of place where as Rivendell is ready to fight if neccesary. Just because the elves of rivendell are most likely better warriors i would have to go with the rivendell elves.

Forum Admin / Moderator

Oct 24 2018, 4:27am

Post #2 of 5 (17512 views)
The elves of Lothlorien. [In reply to] Can't Post

They're used to fighting from a height and could easily adapt their fighting-from-a-flet strategy to fighting-from-a-cliffside in, say, Rivendell. And those with the high ground have the upper hand in battle. Evil

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

Ataahua's stories

Thor 'n' Oakenshield

Oct 26 2018, 12:14am

Post #3 of 5 (17297 views)
Are we talking about movie or book? [In reply to] Can't Post

Book: I'd go with the Rivendell Elves, who seem to have had more of a military presence throughout history, and Elrond was more of a war-lord, if that's the right term to use. He had mighty Elf-lords in his army. In the book, the Galadhrim do seem more peaceable, though they do have the powerful sorcery of Galadriel on their side.
Movie: Lorien Elves, all the way. The way they moved at Helm's Deep was incredible!

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."

the 13th warrior

Nov 2 2018, 5:36am

Post #4 of 5 (16754 views)
Would depend on the size of the armies, bigger numbers probably win.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello Man and all, Am curious what you think about the size of the armies rivendell and lorien would gather. wouldn't lorien be larger, an elf city as opposed to rivendell, elrond's "estate" for lack of a better word. it had an enormous household, with lots of elves. but lorien had an elf city and populated forests.so you would think galadriel and celeborn would have a lot more elfpower to draw on and form regiments. would think skill level about equal. thought i read somewhere galadriel herself could be a warrior, and lorien did withstand the dark lord attacking out of dol goldur 3 times i recollect??

I think it would come down to who raises larger force, and now the question, would rivendell attack lorien or the other way around. either way, misty mt passes and orcs eager to do in both would be factors. long way to go, perilous, need to keep forces intact.
The 13th Warrior, Left Field Caliphate
((From the scroll rooms of Gondor, looking at military geography topography maps of Eriador, Rhovanion))

(This post was edited by the 13th warrior on Nov 2 2018, 5:39am)


Dec 11 2018, 4:52pm

Post #5 of 5 (13611 views)
Lorien [In reply to] Can't Post

Lorien had Galadriel, who was, after all, the second greatest Noldor ever to live (after Feanor...yes AFTER Feanor), and she was the equal of her male counterparts in athletics (mentioned in Unfinished Tales I think), and therefore probably the equal of most in combat and tactics too. And being further enhanced by Narya, whilst wearing it she was quite possibly the most potent Noldor ever. Probably in almost all things, except for some skills that may have been unique to some Eldar, such as Feanor's crafting of the Silmarills.

But, I think the statements of Galadriel's "greatness" should only be taken in the context of Noldor (or indeed any Eldar) who were themselves not subject to comments about how their own personal "greatness" had changed since being first mentioned.

By this logic (if acceptable) then the likes of Glorfindel (in the Second and Third Ages) should probably be excluded from the overarching statements made of other Eldar and their "greatness", such as the comments made of Feanor and Galadriel.

Glorfindel was re-embodied having been greatly enhanced by his sacrifice against a Balrog in the defense of Tuor's party, who were leaving via mountain passes as Gondolin was sacked. He was re-embodied quickly after his death, and he chose to dwell with the Maiar of Valinor, and in doing so, Mr T explains in some of his essays published in "The Peoples of Middle-earth":

...For long years he remained in Valinor, in reunion with the Eldar who had not rebelled, and in the companionship of the Maiar. To these he had now become almost an equal, for though he was an incarnate (to whom a bodily form not made or chosen by himself was necessary) his spiritual power had been greatly enhanced by his self-sacrifice...

So, Glorfindel had been enhanced so, by his sacrifice that he had "...become almost an equal..." to the Maiar he hung around with. Whilst it is conceivable that Galadriel *might* be the equal of lesser Maiar, especially with her ring, that is by no means certain.

Additionally Glorfindel was briefly considered as possibly on of the Istari, before Mr T dismissed it. But he did suggest that Glorfidnel's return to Middle-earth, in the Second Age, was:

...for the purpose of strengthening Gil-galad and Elrond, when the growing evil of the intentions of Sauron were at last perceived by them [the Valar]...

And given war was inevitable between Sauron and the Eldar by this time, it would make perfect sense that Glorfindel was being sent back as a military leader, as much as a wise adviser.

The point of this ludicrously long preamble is to establish that Rivendell had, in Glorfindel, an Eldar who was almost certainly every bit as powerful as Galadriel, and possibly more so given the context of the battle, and one who was probably the most senior military leader in Middle-earth too.

Rivendell also had other inhabitants who could ride against the nine, of which Glorfindel was but one, although he must have been the most powerful. How many in Lorien could do the same? Galadriel certainly, and probably Celeborn too. But after that?

But whilst Rivendell probably had numerous powerful Eldar, they probably lacked the numbers that Lorien could field in a battle and would have had loads of archers, and that would probably be the deciding factor. Despite the potency of a few individuals, I don't think Rivendell could stand up to the numbers Lorien could put into battle. Lorien was a "realm" after all. Rivendell was just a house, even if it was a large one.

So Lorien wins due to the fact it could field an army. Rivendell could not. Not on its own.




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