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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
I hope the show will portray Gondor in a better light.

Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Oct 16, 7:17pm

Post #1 of 24 (1411 views)
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I hope the show will portray Gondor in a better light. Can't Post

One of the big nitpicks I had with ROTK, was how incompetent and weak Gondor was, both leadership and military strength.

Since this will be a Aragorn prequel I hope we get to see Gondorian soldiers with Thorongil attacking and destroying Umbar's fleet. Or them fending off Morgul forces from Ithilien successfully for example.


Helcaraxe
The Shire


Oct 19, 2:05pm

Post #2 of 24 (1266 views)
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I hope the show will portray Gondor in a better light. [In reply to] Can't Post

The way things are going right now with the 'deafening' silence on this show, you'll be lucky to see anything of Gondor or anywhere else in Middle Earth in your lifetime!! I find it amazing that there is virtually nothing coming out about this series even taking account of the time needed to set things up for direction, screenwriting etc. For such a potentially massive production with a huge fan base, its peculiar to say the least that they don't make even a few announcements on progress or ideas for the show to whet peoples appetite. Unsure

"Don't Touch Me!!" - Thomas Covenent


skyofcoffeebeans
Rivendell

Oct 19, 2:19pm

Post #3 of 24 (1261 views)
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I hope the show will portray Gondor in a better light [In reply to] Can't Post

That’s kinda how this part of the process works.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 19, 2:22pm

Post #4 of 24 (1261 views)
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Will we even see Gondor? [In reply to] Can't Post

We know that Aragorn as Thorongil spends a considerable amount of time in Rohan and Gondor, but we don't know how much of the series is going to follow the Ranger's early travels and adventures. If Aragorn's arc only covers the first season then it might be quite limited. To try to cover his entire backstory in such a manner would seem to be an unsatisfying option. That said, Thorongil's service to Gondor under Ecthelion II would probably be one of the most interesting periods of his life and could be covered by an entire season of the show.

Do keep in mind that in the last part of the Third Age Gondor was far from the peak of its powers. Its people had suffered much from invasions, plague, civil war and other troubles; the nation had barely the manpower to protect itself. The raid that Aragorn led on the Corsair fleet at Umbar was probably its finest moment in those later years prior to the War of the Ring.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 19, 2:26pm)


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rivendell

Oct 19, 11:19pm

Post #5 of 24 (1198 views)
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We'll see Gondor… [In reply to] Can't Post

They're not gonna leave the largest kingdom in Middle-earth offscreen! And I also honestly don't think that each season will feature different main characters: that doesn't seem like it would fly well with audiences – at least, not me. Thorongil in Gondor is what I'm most looking forward to from this series. I think the raid on Umbar will be extraordinary. Or should be: I don't have high hopes yet. Once I see some casting (or at least fan-casting: seriously, why is everyone so silent on that matter?), then I'll get a little more excited. Maybe some details of the plot would be good too. Anything would be good.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 20, 12:19am

Post #6 of 24 (1191 views)
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It might take a while. [In reply to] Can't Post

If it turns out that the whole series centers around Aragorn then he might not reach Gondor until at least Season Three. It depends on when the showrunner(s) want to start and end Aragorn's backstory. The show might start with a bit about Aragorn's birth and upbringing and then shift to his leaving Rivendell in his twentieth year. So it might proceed something like this:

- Season One: Eriador and Rhovanion
- Season Two: Rohan
- Season Three: Gondor
- Season Four: The Distant East
- Season Five: The Far South

If they want to explore events nearer to the War of the Ring (such as the Hunt for Gollum) then there would have to be more compression of the previous years or the show would need at least one more season.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 20, 12:22am)


squire
Half-elven


Oct 20, 1:02am

Post #7 of 24 (1185 views)
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Season Five looks like a winner [In reply to] Can't Post

I know it's silly, but all I could think of when I saw your shot at a structure for five TV seasons on Aragorn's life before the War of the Ring, was what we know from Tolkien, the actual source for this entire venture, about the events in Season Five.

Opening. It is night. Aragorn looks up.
ARAGORN: The stars are strange here.
RANDOM HARADRIM SIDEKICK: Not to us.
ARAGORN: I can't get over it. The stars. They're strange.
R. H.: Tell me about the stars in your country.
ARAGORN: They're not strange. They're as they've always been. And always will be.
R. H.: That is heavy, indeed.
ARAGORN: But to come back to my first thought. The stars are strange here.
R. H.: You said that.
ARAGORN: It's the only line I have for the entire 10 episodes of this season. I'm trying to put some emotion into it, you know?
R. H.: What if I said it? "The stars are strange here." That works to vary the rhythm of our conversation.
ARAGORN: No, as you said: they're not strange to you. Only to me, a stranger in a strange land.
R. H.: You can't say that. It's from the Bible, for God's sake.
ARAGORN: Well, you can't say God, so we're even.
R. H.: Get back to what you know and do best, please, before we're cancelled.
ARAGORN: The stars are strange here.
R. H.: I'll take your word for it. Welcome to the Far South!
ARAGORN: The stars are very strange here.
R. H.: Nice emotional switch-up! This might just work after all.



squire online:
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 20, 12:18pm

Post #8 of 24 (1152 views)
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Ha! [In reply to] Can't Post

In discussions of Aragorn's journeys to distant lands, I've certainly quoted that line more than once! Wink

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rivendell

Oct 20, 2:10pm

Post #9 of 24 (1143 views)
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Strange stars [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, hopefully we get something of the Blue Wizard backstory, and obviously we know he goes to Umbar, and we could see him perhaps trying to prevent Sauron's corruption of the Kings of Harad and Khun. Blue Wizards would be incredible onscreen: would anyone here want to see them?
The strange stars, though, should definitely be the focal point of the whole Southern venture. I could see it being the name of an episode.


Belegdir
Lorien


Oct 20, 5:15pm

Post #10 of 24 (1128 views)
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I can certainly see the Blues being a focus [In reply to] Can't Post

They could certainly become central to the series. Even showing their part in the destruction of the One Ring. It would certainly bring in the existing fans and help create new ones.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 20, 6:51pm

Post #11 of 24 (1118 views)
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The Blues might be out-of-bounds. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure that the Blue Wizards will be able to show up in the Amazon series; they might be outside of the limits set by the Tolkien Estate. In any case, they would be slightly problematic in that no record of their fate was supposed to exist. That said, there is definitely potential there.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 20, 6:53pm)


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rivendell

Oct 20, 7:21pm

Post #12 of 24 (1103 views)
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Blue Wizards [In reply to] Can't Post

If they're outside of the Tolkien Estate's limits, I guess that would be a problem. I think if the only thing standing between Amazon and the Blue Wizards is a single reference that there was no record of their fate, then there's gonna be Blue Wizards in the series. Who has control in the Tolkien Estate now?

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 20, 7:38pm

Post #13 of 24 (1098 views)
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The Tolkien Estate and Trust [In reply to] Can't Post

Wikipedia seems reasonably up-to-date on the subject:


Quote
The Tolkien Estate is the legal body which manages the property of the English writer J. R. R. Tolkien, including the copyright for most of his works. The individual copyrights have for the most part been assigned by the estate to subsidiary entities such as the J. R. R. Tolkien Discretionary Settlement and the Tolkien charitable trust. The various holdings of the Tolkien family, including the estate, have been organized under The Tolkien Company, the directors of which are Christopher Tolkien (till August 2017), his wife Baillie Tolkien, and J. R. R. Tolkien's grandson Michael George Tolkien. The executors of the estate proper are Christopher Tolkien, who is sole literary executor, and (succeeding J. R. R. Tolkien's lawyer Frank Williamson) Cathleen Blackburn of Maier Blackburn,[1] who has also been the estate's solicitor for many years.

The lawsuits below refer to an entity entitled Fourth Age, Ltd. which was formed in November 2011. Although court records do not reflect this, according to UK corporate records Fourth Age, Ltd. changed its name on 21 February 2013 to Tolkien Estate, Ltd. Its directors include Tolkien family members Baillie Tolkien, Christopher Tolkien, Priscilla Tolkien, Simon Tolkien and Michael George Tolkien, as well as the Tolkien Estate attorney, Steven Andrew Maier.[2]


"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rivendell

Oct 20, 7:50pm

Post #14 of 24 (1089 views)
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So then… [In reply to] Can't Post

Is it Bailie and Michael George (and Cathleen Blackburn) who basically possess Unfinished Tales? Have they expressed their feelings toward the Amazon series: I know that Amazon met with some of the Tolkiens, right?

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 20, 8:00pm

Post #15 of 24 (1083 views)
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Sorry, I don't know the specifics. [In reply to] Can't Post

Presumably it's something like what you've guessed.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Oct 20, 10:20pm

Post #16 of 24 (1063 views)
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Gondor [In reply to] Can't Post

I just want the show to do justice to Gondor. What we saw in ROTK wasn't right. They were potrayed as the opposite of the Rohirrim.

Why not include the father of Beregond or Adrahil II? Surely these two must have fought some skirmishes and gotten victorious against Morgul and Mordor's forces.


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rivendell

Oct 21, 2:16pm

Post #17 of 24 (993 views)
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Opposite of the Rohirrim? [In reply to] Can't Post

Aren't they kind of supposed to be? But they're diminishing, and becoming more like the men of Rohan, by the end of the Third Age. But I don't think that Gondor should look or feel like Rohan; best not to confuse general audiences anyway. You want them to both feel very distinct.
Either of the characters you mentioned would be great: I've always liked Beregond.

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 21, 2:45pm

Post #18 of 24 (988 views)
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Gondor vs. Rohan [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I just want the show to do justice to Gondor. What we saw in ROTK wasn't right. They were potrayed as the opposite of the Rohirrim.

Why not include the father of Beregond or Adrahil II? Surely these two must have fought some skirmishes and gotten victorious against Morgul and Mordor's forces.


Well, in many ways the peoples of Rohan and Gondor were very different. It would be like comparing the Romans to the Gauls. As noted above, though, by the end of the Third Age the Men of Gondor were becoming more like the Rohirrim in their outlook while the Horse-lords were becoming more like the Gondorians.

I could well believe that Aragorn as Thorongil could have met Adrahil, the Prince of Dol Amroth, or might have served beside the father of Beregond.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Oct 21, 2:54pm

Post #19 of 24 (981 views)
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About the Rohirrim. [In reply to] Can't Post

What I mean about Gondor being the opposite of Rohan, is the fighting spirit and morale. Gondor seems to be lacking these traits in ROTK.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 21, 3:18pm

Post #20 of 24 (976 views)
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Blame Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
What I mean about Gondor being the opposite of Rohan, is the fighting spirit and morale. Gondor seems to be lacking these traits in ROTK.


The roots for that are established in the book and in the history of Gondor. At the time of the War of the Ring, Gondor is well past its prime and its peak strength. The nation had been suffering a slow decline for centuries.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Mari D.
Bree


Oct 22, 9:23pm

Post #21 of 24 (797 views)
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Haha ... great :D / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Mari D.
Bree


Oct 22, 9:26pm

Post #22 of 24 (797 views)
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Sure :-)/ [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Well, hopefully we get something of the Blue Wizard backstory, and obviously we know he goes to Umbar, and we could see him perhaps trying to prevent Sauron's corruption of the Kings of Harad and Khun. Blue Wizards would be incredible onscreen: would anyone here want to see them?



Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rivendell

Oct 23, 12:56am

Post #23 of 24 (777 views)
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That's what I like to hear! [In reply to] Can't Post

The Blue Dudes deserve a place in cinematic history; they're incredibly mysterious, perfect fodder for prequel stuff. One of them should wear indigo, the other should be turquoise – that's my idea, anyway.

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."


InTheChair
Lorien

Oct 26, 5:20pm

Post #24 of 24 (565 views)
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Given how little we know about the Blue Wizards they might just as well be only Wizards. [In reply to] Can't Post

We are very likely going to get Wizards. If they wear blue or will be referred to as the blue I don't know. Depends on what the deal allows them to get away with.

You could also potentially have a lot of Saruman in the mix.

 
 

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